Virginia Beach Light Rail and Transit

[VBIllini13]

Yeah, I think we could live without this kind of talk in the forum...it is very anti-productive when it comes to talking and debating ideas.

And there is nothing wrong with wanting a public transportation that European cities have.

Also, if you have ever gone to public schools or colleges, gone to the library, or even gone to a state park, then consider yourself a socialist commie as well because that is what you get from that kind of thinking.

my apologies for being a conservative-minded urban planning student who doesn't want to pay more taxes...

sorry for taking this discussion a bit off-topic

[urbanlife]

my apologies for being a conservative-minded urban planning student who doesn't want to pay more taxes...

sorry for taking this discussion a bit off-topic

There is nothing wrong with that, it is just when things start to head into the name calling direction that it becomes bad. Which at that point me might as well start calling each other "stupid head."

Though this might be a little bit off topic, but could easily be related back to this topic in the way of expanding of Hampton Roads transit system, how is one a conservative urban planning student and not in favor of taxes to help pay for such projects? Granted I am more a fan of taxing people in more of a social equality, the better off you are, the more you help those that are not and the more you help the infrastructure of your city function. Keep in mind, somehow projects like these have to get paid for if they are going to get built, which means money needs to come from somewhere...regardless of where it comes from.

Edited February 24, 2010 by urbanlife

[VBIllini13]

Though this might be a little bit off topic, but could easily be related back to this topic in the way of expanding of Hampton Roads transit system, how is one a conservative urban planning student and not in favor of taxes to help pay for such projects? Granted I am more a fan of taxing people in more of a social equality, the better off you are, the more you help those that are not and the more you help the infrastructure of your city function. Keep in mind, somehow projects like these have to get paid for if they are going to get built, which means money needs to come from somewhere...regardless of where it comes from.

I will admit that taxes are necessary, and however against raising taxes I may be, I don't have a problem paying them once they are in place. I am actually in favor of TIF districts because the people who will be benefitting most from the improved infrastructure or developments will be the businesses located and resident living in the area. Also, for mass transit projects, especially rail, I think that funding needs to be re-allocated, with less funding going toward interstate construction and more money going toward funding rail projects.

The interstate highway system destroyed the populations of urban centers despite promoting easier access to cities for businesses. Hampton Roads was put in a cul-de-sac because (and this is just my theory) Eisenhower defeated General MacArthur in the Republican primary, which likely left a sour taste in the administration's mouth about Norfolk. If priorities could be reset and highway funding cut in favor of rail projects, then both urbanism and the economy could prosper. My parents are against national HSR because they think that because the passenger railroad business went bankrupt before that nobody outside of the Northeast wants to ride it. But up here at school, my friends are very excited about the construction of a HSR route between Chicago and St. Louis.

[mlsimons]

I like Europe...for lots of reasons. But this argue is too huge to have here.

I'm happy to announce that I will be going to Bristol, England to study urban planning at UWE next fall. I'm really excited about getting the European perspective for a couple months. Hopefully I can bring back some planning knowledge to impart on Norfolk!!!

[MissySchmidt]

I like Europe...for lots of reasons. But this argue is too huge to have here.

I'm happy to announce that I will be going to Bristol, England to study urban planning at UWE next fall. I'm really excited about getting the European perspective for a couple months. Hopefully I can bring back some planning knowledge to impart on Norfolk!!!

That's fantastic, Matt... hope you'll email a blog post or two on what you observe! safe travels!

[vdogg]

Well folks, it's Friday. It must be time for another doom and gloom article from the Pilot. Yay!

Cost of Beach's $40 million rail path may rise

The city's proposed $40 million deal to buy an old rail corridor for a possible light-rail project could cost more because a federal agency is asking questions about the land's value.

Federal Transit Administration officials say past appraisals of the 10.6-mile-long strip are too old and that a new one is needed. The concern is important because FTA approval is needed before Hampton Roads Transit can use $5 million in federal funds toward the land purchase, a key part of the multi-agency deal crafted last year to buy the corridor.

[ronsmytheiii]

The City’s good reputation and strong financial practices continue to provide excellent results. Last year, Standard & Poor’s assigned its highest rating – AAA – to the city’s series 2009 general obligation bonds, and affirmed its AAA rating on existing general obligation debt. The agency cited the city’s strong local economy that — and I quote — “has proven to be highly resilient through various economic cycles.” Standard & Poor’s also favorably noted the prospect of a light rail system in Virginia Beach’s future, as well as Town Center and other projects that have not only attracted new businesses and spin-offs, but provide employment opportunities beyond the traditional tourism and military sectors.” That is very important.

Number 2 - In my opinion, ensuring that Hampton Roads is connected to the emerging national high speed rail network has to be one of the top priorities for the Commonwealth, for the region, and for Virginia Beach. Now that the Commonwealth has endorsed a higher speed rail route between Richmond and South Hampton Roads, it is critical that the construction of that corridor begin as soon as possible — and I thank the Honorable Thelma Drake for her support as director of the Department of Rail and Public Transportation in helping to move this important project forward.

 

We have to look ahead and do something now about the gridlock on our roadways. In keeping the military, transportation is the key. We have a unique national asset — right here in Hampton Roads! Here we have the largest concentration of federal activities anywhere in the country outside of our nation’s capital. We house operations of 16 federal departments and agencies, including all five military services. We are home to the nation’s largest naval facility, and we provide the primary air defense of our nation’s capital, and homeland security to our port and sea coast.

 

For years, the military has endorsed light rail. Rear Admiral Mark S. Boensel, Commander of Navy Region Mid-Atlantic, recently made the case that light rail is not only a means to reduce congestion… it’s not only a means to enhance safety… it’s not only for quality of life reasons. It also facilitates military readiness. The key elements of our economy — the military, tourism and business travel — are all tied into a transportation system, and that’s why I believe such linkages are absolutely necessary to ensure the continued economic growth and competitiveness of the state’s urban centers.

http://www.vbgov.com/vgn.aspx?vgnextoid=954ff8ee84d67210VgnVCM100000190c640aRCRD&vgnextchannel=c803a9893c5dd010VgnVCM1000006310640aRCRD&vgnextfmt=default

[vdogg]

Someone please tell me why this article is written up as though there is some sort of scandal? I mean really pilot, you're really reaching on this one.

$63,000 conversation: Lobbying, or search for light rail consensus

The city is paying a local non profit $63,000 to run what the group is calling a yearlong "community conversation" on transportation.

The effort, which kicks off today, comes as the City Council wrestles with the city's dominant transportation issue: whether to pursue a light-rail project to link to the Norfolk light-rail line.

Critics say the arrangement with the Hampton Roads Center for Civic Engagement is designed to build support for light rail. Center and city officials say the exercise, dubbed "Envision Transportation," will include discussion of light rail but that it's also about roads, bike and pedestrian routes, and accessibility for people with disabilities.

Oh the horrors. Impeach them all. Re-elect no one. We just absolutely can't have our city trying to build public support for transit alternatives...

[varider]

This is good.. but why does it feel like the populous' mentality in Hampton Roads is so country, are there progessive-minded people in HR?

[ronsmytheiii]

I Don't know why LRT is so controversial, we had it before:

[mlsimons]

Submitted by Wm D Tabor DDS on Mon, 03/22/2010 at 11:01 am.Roads are paid for primarily by user fees, fuel taxes and tolls. What small amount of added funding comes in from other taxes is outweighed by the fuel taxes diverted to transit.

When a system cannot run without a subsidy, that is marketplace telling you there are better ways to accomplish your goals.

If you do not listen to the marketplace, it will slap you upside the head with unintended consequences until you do.

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WHOA

Submitted by on Mon, 03/22/2010 at 11:40 am.This is absolutely not true! Unless you are referring to big ticket items like the Chesapeake Bay Bridge Tunnel. Which are still paid with public money upfront and then maintained with tolls, or specialized financing through a public/private partnership.

However, road construction and maintenance is the number two cost out of taxpayers wallets (i.e. the general fund), number one being schools. This is an economic fact! Roads will forever cost Hampton Roads more to build and maintain than LRT will. The gov't must provide infrastructure, roads and rail...after all this is why we pay taxes.

[varider]

Hampton Roads Transit will hold a meeting today on the Virginia Beach Transit Extension Study.

The meeting will be from 6 to 8 p.m. at The Westin at Town Center, 4535 Commerce St., a news release says.

The presentation will begin at 6:15 p.m., and residents can get additional information at tables set up in the conference room, the release says.

The meeting will include information about transit technology, possible station locations, a preferred transit vehicle storage site and other issues, according to the release.

http://hamptonroads.com/2010/06/hrt-holding-meeting-today-va-beach-transit-study

VIRGINIA BEACH NEEDS LIGHT RAIL

[BFG]

^^^I agree 110%!

However, why do I have the feeling the VB residents are going to be overwhelmingly against this?

And I'll bet the number one (bulls**t) reason they bring up is "We don't want more crime coming to VB". Nevermind the fact that crime in this region is EXTREMELY low compared to other regions of similar size (New Orleans, Detroit).

I'm really hoping I get proven wrong, but I'm sure it's going to be a bunch of NIMBY crybabies complaining about their tax dollars going to waste.

[varider]

I feel that there is a very real possiblity of light rail being shut down by the NIMBY, nay-sayers of Virginia Beach. I don't know if this is an accurate generalization, but it seems to me that VB is far less progressive-minded than Norfolk and VB doesn't really have that group of people that care about their neighborhood getting better like Norfolk's AltDaily followers & Ghentonians, etc. I just hope that VB gets light rail.. It's needed. My family's friends were visitng from NoVA this week and they saw the light rail on there way in & they couldn't believe it wasn't going to Virginia Beach yet.. I hope Sessoms & Co. have enough backbone to shove LR down the throats of the naysayers. & If VB doens't get LRT, oh well.. On to the Naval Station Norfolk.

[urbanlife]

^^^I agree 110%!

However, why do I have the feeling the VB residents are going to be overwhelmingly against this?

And I'll bet the number one (bulls**t) reason they bring up is "We don't want more crime coming to VB". Nevermind the fact that crime in this region is EXTREMELY low compared to other regions of similar size (New Orleans, Detroit).

I'm really hoping I get proven wrong, but I'm sure it's going to be a bunch of NIMBY crybabies complaining about their tax dollars going to waste.

Well you can hope for the joy of the "American knee jerk reaction," if gas prices spike to an all time high at the right moment you will get enough people to say their needs to be something to help relieve this issue and would more than likely vote for it. Another plus is that it looks like the city has a mayor that is willing to push for things like this, so we will see. I wouldnt be shocked if the line was continued to the oceanfront by 2018 and there was at least one more line under construction or awaiting construction.

[VBIllini13]

I feel that there is a very real possiblity of light rail being shut down by the NIMBY, nay-sayers of Virginia Beach. I don't know if this is an accurate generalization, but it seems to me that VB is far less progressive-minded than Norfolk and VB doesn't really have that group of people that care about their neighborhood getting better like Norfolk's AltDaily followers & Ghentonians, etc. I just hope that VB gets light rail.. It's needed. My family's friends were visitng from NoVA this week and they saw the light rail on there way in & they couldn't believe it wasn't going to Virginia Beach yet.. I hope Sessoms & Co. have enough backbone to shove LR down the throats of the naysayers. & If VB doens't get LRT, oh well.. On to the Naval Station Norfolk.

Oooh. one thing you learn both with experience and at school is that you NEVER shove ANYTHING down peoples' throats. No matter how much you think you know what is good for them. Yes, of course Virginia Beach isn't as progressive as Norfolk, and I am quite happy we aren't. Do I want light rail? Of course! Do I like my house in my subdivision? You betcha. Light rail really doesn't mean improving certain neighborhoods in Virginia Beach (and in Norfolk), nor does it mean quality of life will decrease. People have a right to mobility, and public transportation is in fact a necessity, especially in a region as spread out as this, and yes crime may increase if the Tide is extended to Virginia Beach. One cannot make a valid argument that an increase in crime isn't so bad because it's worse in other areas. That's why people live here, because we're not like other areas! But that's not the argument most NIMBYs are making. Contrary to many Democrats' beliefs, Tea Partiers and the VBTA are not full of racists. They don't want light rail because of its burden on all city taxpayers. Now while I think that the resulting economic growth greatly outweighs the cost to build, that is their opinion and not mine (that LRT shouldn't be built because of high taxes). In other words, the VBTA and other opponents are driven economically against rail, not racially driven.

Remember that this is America and a democracy. Rule by consent of the governed, by the majority with protection of the minority (opinion in this case). The governed (the citizens of Virginia Beach) may or may not want to pursue light rail). The majority, whichever opinion, cannot take democratic freedoms away from the other party. Being conservative and fiscally responsible is not a bad thing at all, and progressivism is far more dangerous than conservatism (I'm talking about radical progressives here people, not liberals). As long as the thing gets built within a reasonable cost, I believe that the economic growth, aided by lower taxes, will greatly boost the region's economy. My main disagreement with strict fiscal conservatives are that they are short sighted and do not see prosperity resulting from responsible spending.

[calwinston]

Hampton Roads Transit will hold a meeting today on the Virginia Beach Transit Extension Study.

The meeting will be from 6 to 8 p.m. at The Westin at Town Center, 4535 Commerce St., a news release says.

The presentation will begin at 6:15 p.m., and residents can get additional information at tables set up in the conference room, the release says.

The meeting will include information about transit technology, possible station locations, a preferred transit vehicle storage site and other issues, according to the release.

http://hamptonroads....h-transit-study

VIRGINIA BEACH NEEDS LIGHT RAIL

How did the meeting in Virginia Beach for expanding light rail go?

[ronsmytheiii]

How did the meeting in Virginia Beach for expanding light rail go?

http://www.gohrt.com/vbtes/2010/06/public-meeting-63010.pdf

[Mobius57]

http://www.gohrt.com...eting-63010.pdf

The pdf is sideways, how do you get it turned 90 degrees?

[urbanvb]

right click then choose 'rotate cockwise'.

[urbanlife]

I would guess that it will be no sooner than 2016 before we see construction begin on the VBLRT and it wont be up and running before 2018, provided it doesnt get stalled by any bad votes. This would definitely something better suited for a fall of 2016 vote during a presidential election if there is a strong democratic candidate that the people of Hampton Roads really likes, or there is a huge increase in gas costs thanks to the yet to be seen effects from the gulf leak that forces people to push for alternative modes of transportation.

Though I will say, I really like this line, it may seem like it wont effect that many people, but if each of those locations have a park and ride and the city pushes to provide better bus service to each station and its surrounding neighborhoods as well as provide better and safer bike lanes and a bike infrastructure, I could really see this being a very effective system for VB. Though beyond this one line through VB, I am not sure I could see VB building any second lines outside of maybe having streetcar lines put in within some of their urban districts. Though it would be amazing to see the entire VB Blvd corridor become a long stretch of urban centers in an almost LA style, which would be very fitting for the city.

[calwinston]

"A referendum on light rail in Va. Beach is a cowardly move"

The city has to do it, they argue, after voters in a 1999 referendum easily rejected a study and further planning on a light-rail system. Current council members don't want to usurp the voters' will, you see.

Never mind that Hampton Roads Transit is spending $6.6 million to study extending light rail from Norfolk to the Oceanfront, will have preliminary costs and ridership figures later this year and plans to complete the study in 2011..................

State lawmakers look for cover, too. That's what happened a few years ago, when the General Assembly gave Hampton Roads and Northern Virginia the "opportunity" to tax their residents for roads. The scheme would have used unelected regional authorities to levy taxes. The Virginia Supreme Court ruled that switcheroo unconstitutional in 2008.

The court's smackdown was a moral lesson about buck-passing.

On light rail, Beach council members will have the most information of anyone in the city about the costs, benefits and drawbacks from a system. They'll have received public comments and e-mails. They won't need a referendum.

What they need is to find their backbones and make the decision themselves.

http://hamptonroads.com/2010/07/referendum-light-rail-va-beach-cowardly-move

[Sky06]

Oooh. one thing you learn both with experience and at school is that you NEVER shove ANYTHING down peoples' throats.

VB has NEVER shoved light rail or anything else down its citizens' throats. That's because they're too afraid to make a decision for themeselves for fear of voter anger. They drag their feet, hire consultants, and put it before a voter referendum. That way, they don't take the blame for anything. So the implication that this is the cause of VB citizen opposition to LRT is completely false.

I love the recent commentary in the Pilot attacking the council for this very mode of operation. It actually shocks me that I read it in this newspaper. How did such an opinion actually get through the editors?

[VBIllini13]

VB has NEVER shoved light rail or anything else down its citizens' throats. That's because they're too afraid to make a decision for themeselves for fear of voter anger. They drag their feet, hire consultants, and put it before a voter referendum. That way, they don't take the blame for anything. So the implication that this is the cause of VB citizen opposition to LRT is completely false.

I'm sorry were you talking to me? I think you may have not looked at the quote I was responding to. I was simply responding to varider's comment: "I hope Sessoms & Co. have enough backbone to shove LR down the throats of the naysayers," and how that isn't the way it works in this country.

[HarryVB]

The commanding view from the 17th floor of the Armada Hoffler building in Town Center is a pretty good sign that the meeting down the hall isn’t your normal grassroots gathering.

In the conference room of the law firm Williams Mullen this week, the group Light Rail Now held its first board meeting. It wasn’t just lawyers and the city’s business elite.

About 30 people from environmental, neighborhood, biking and running, housing, senior and church groups are on the board of directors. While the business community created and is financing Light Rail Now – $110,000 has been raised so far – it’s creating a broad-based coalition to support light rail, a sort of grassroots group building in reverse.

“The reality is most of these groups involved don’t have the financial resources to put it together,” said attorney Steve Davis, a board member of Light Rail Now and past president of Virginia Beach Vision, the business group spearheading the effort. “Where it goes from here is going to depend on the people involved and the direction they decide to take it. The business community has done the initial job to get this thing off the ground.”

Here is more on the article

Va. Beach businesses raise cash for 'Light Rail Now