Jump to content

Virginia Beach Light Rail and Transit


vdogg

Recommended Posts

HRT indefinitely halts study on light rail in Virginia Beach

Hampton Roads Transit has put its study of light rail in Virginia Beach on indefinite hold, one month before it was set to release preliminary costs and ridership estimates for an extension from Norfolk to the Oceanfront.

HRT issued a stop-work notice to its consultant late last week after questions surfaced from Federal Transit Administration officials about phasing in extensions and about models used to project ridership. HRT says federal officials indicated they may want actual ridership counts from The Tide starter line in Norfolk, which won't open until later this year.

Well, what can I say. Wait some more... :unsure:

Link to comment
Share on other sites


I have a hard time believing this will cost nearly 3x the amount of what it is in Norfolk. $800 million sounds awfully high, even with the cost overruns in Norfolk. I could understand if the total project from downtown Norfolk to the Oceanfront is $800M, but from Newtown Road???

Regardless, I see this either being shot down or heavily abbreviated, i.e. the Lynnhaven or Town Center stop that was proposed, and honestly, that would still be a pretty decent alternative. The beach is more of a tourist thing IMO, but to ride the train from Ghent to Town Center for dinner (or vice versa) is a pretty cool idea, esp. if/when they upgrade Pembroke Mall. I could see a lot of Va. Beach suburbanites who work in DT Norfolk parking their car at the Lynnhaven station then riding in to work. Unfortunately, I could see a lot more people not giving this a chance.

Then again, people laughed when MacArthur and Town Center were proposed, and they're doing pretty well, so who knows?

Edited by BFG
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I have a hard time believing this will cost nearly 3x the amount of what it is in Norfolk. $800 million sounds awfully high, even with the cost overruns in Norfolk. I could understand if the total project from downtown Norfolk to the Oceanfront is $800M, but from Newtown Road???

Regardless, I see this either being shot down or heavily abbreviated, i.e. the Lynnhaven or Town Center stop that was proposed, and honestly, that would still be a pretty decent alternative. The beach is more of a tourist thing IMO, but to ride the train from Ghent to Town Center for dinner (or vice versa) is a pretty cool idea, esp. if/when they upgrade Pembroke Mall. I could see a lot of Va. Beach suburbanites who work in DT Norfolk parking their car at the Lynnhaven station then riding in to work. Unfortunately, I could see a lot more people not giving this a chance.

Then again, people laughed when MacArthur and Town Center were proposed, and they're doing pretty well, so who knows?

I can see the VB portion costing that much, but there are a lot of factors going into this. A major factor would be how much of it would be raised rail because of heavy traffic roads it would have to pass over. Another factor in cost would be the stations and how they would be done, there are a number of locations where some major work would have to be done to incorporate a stop into that location (Lynnhaven comes to mind when I think of station complications.)

But you definitely are right, I remember all the negative comments being made about MacArthur and Town Center about how much of a waste of money it was and how no one will ever go there, and both seem to be doing very well with those same people that complained. I could easily hear those same complainers saying how much they enjoy taking the train into Norfolk for a Tides game, a show, or a festival rather than dealing with traffic and parking, but until it goes in there will always be a constant negativity towards it.

I still think VB will jump on board with this after the Norfolk line is up and running and it will more than likely happen in small sections, like building the line from Newtown to the Town Center for commerce reasons.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

No way this is happening with that price tag. Also, the pilot seems intent on emphasizing the negative so all the media attention will probably put the final nail in the coffin. There might be a chance if they can break this down in sections but this is looking very doubtful now.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

No way this is happening with that price tag. Also, the pilot seems intent on emphasizing the negative so all the media attention will probably put the final nail in the coffin. There might be a chance if they can break this down in sections but this is looking very doubtful now.

This doubtfulness sounds the same as the last time voters voted down light rail in Virginia Beach, but here they are still talking about it. Wait until the Norfolk line is up and running before talking about final nails. Wait and see if this works out for Norfolk that could make that city start talking about expanding within the city of Norfolk, maybe Chesapeake will be the next ones to jump on board with this instead of VB, but it is definitely a long way away before talking about final nails.

Also the Pilot is apart of a dying industry, they are going to do anything to make themselves sound relevant, but do the majority of people even still get their news from the Pilot in that region?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The only way that this will work is if

1. We get a lot of federal funding (doubtful with the Norfolk situation and Congress' cutting mood)

2. get rid of most (if not all) of the above grade crossings and just go with at grade ones (doubtful, ties up traffic.)

3. Build in phases (maybe, but many will complain and might add on to total cost)

4. Try to mix in private investment, the businesses at the beachfront/Town Center will benefit most, perhaps they can partially fund in exchange for free advertising.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 1 month later...

If one of the most costly parts of a VB light real would be the overpasses, why not keep the LRT at grade and lower the road? Just like monticello ave, hampton blvd, brambleton blvd, and the new project by NIT. It has to be cheaper to lower the road given the approach distance to raise a rail line

Link to comment
Share on other sites

If one of the most costly parts of a VB light real would be the overpasses, why not keep the LRT at grade and lower the road? Just like monticello ave, hampton blvd, brambleton blvd, and the new project by NIT. It has to be cheaper to lower the road given the approach distance to raise a rail line

i think that highly unlikely... to make the road an underpass, you have to have the same approach distance. you would first have to build some sort of temporary road to reroute the traffic. you would have to dig down, build concrete walls, put in some extremely effective drainage system, etc.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

If one of the most costly parts of a VB light real would be the overpasses, why not keep the LRT at grade and lower the road? Just like monticello ave, hampton blvd, brambleton blvd, and the new project by NIT. It has to be cheaper to lower the road given the approach distance to raise a rail line

Nah, that would cost a lot more, elevated light rail through the Pembroke is a must. I a good portion of the line could be at grade though.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 3 weeks later...

http://hamptonroads.com/2011/06/beach-rail-removal-scheduled-start-monday

VB starting to remove old rail lines along the potential LR route.

I really hope VB pushes forward and sees the need to extend LR through the city. Hopefully once the study is done, they can agree to fund the project and construction can start around the middle of the decade.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 4 months later...

Well, there goes light rail in Virginia beach. Mr. Anti light rail himself, John D. Moss, just got voted in. You can expect our ostrich like city council to stick their heads even further in the sand as this is spun as a rejection of light rail. This is so disappointing.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

And as expected, the anti-everything crowd on PilotOnline are gloating about how they don't need light rail. So guess what, if VB decides not to do it, their loss. There's other parts of Norfolk and Hampton Roads that want it, and are willing to work with Norfolk to make it happen.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Well, there goes light rail in Virginia beach. Mr. Anti light rail himself, John D. Moss, just got voted in. You can expect our ostrich like city council to stick their heads even further in the sand as this is spun as a rejection of light rail. This is so disappointing.

It'll happen eventually, maybe just not as near into the future as we might have hoped. You can't exactly count this as a rejection of light rail since voter turnout is always low on non-major election years (i.e. not presidential, gubernatorial, senatorial, or congressional). I do think that, if a referendum were to go before the citizens of Virginia Beach that it would pass and Mr. Moss's claim that he would be more open to investigating the feasibility of light rail would be put to the test. And besides, Mr. Moss can't be on city council forever, his term only lasts so long and when he is up for re-election, there will be another opportunity for a pro-light rail pro-development candidate to take his place. Mr. Moss is only one council member and even though he is strikingly far to the right, he still as an obligation to represent the best interests of his constituents.

Light rail will happen in Virginia Beach, but it will be many years and it will be expanded in Norfolk once or twice before expansion across city limits might happen.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 3 months later...

http://hamptonroads.com/2012/03/privatepublic-deal-could-bring-light-rail-va-beach

Lightrail public private partnership?

You have to love how the article starts with "the same kind of partnership that is bringing tolls to the downtown and midtown tunnel..." At least the author made the true agenda of his article apparent from the opening sentence. I stopped reading after that senrence so if anyone reads the whole article and its not just backhanded "reporting" to get a reaction from the Pilot's angry anti deveopment and government bloggers, let me know...today i am judging a book by its cover.

Edited by mistermetaj
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Virginia Beach might be voting on light rail in November:

http://www.wavy.com/...rail-referendum

It's interesting. It'll basically be the moment of the Tide vs. the lobby and public bashing of the Virginia Beach Taxpayers Alliance. Va Beach does have a unique advantage of already having the ROW, however, we are much more sprawled than a typical lightrail center. Had it been built as an extension with Norfolk as the focal point it would make sense, but it is being addressed as it's own city entity with a transfer station to the Norfolk TIDE. I just don't think you can sell suburb to suburb connectivity to a population largely of middle class who DON'T want to be connected to Norfolk, and DON'T want Va Beach to become a major city center.

It is why I am alwasy against these kinds of referrendums. Direct democracy ignores the minority no matter how big a minority, in this case, those of us who do want lightrail.

Expect the referrendum to be at least 60% against the lightrail with the VBTA throwing a victory parade at the Oceanfront, causing a traffic jam on I-264, with everyone on the highway wishing they had an alternative way to travel.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Actually, all the polls over the past year (scientific polls, not online) have been polling 70% for light rail. The VBTA only has power in low voter turnout elections, which is why they wanted to wait till 2013. In national elections, their power is far more diluted. The mayor is being very smart by tacking this onto the presidential ballot, therefore ensuring the highest possible turnout. That's also why those that previously insisted on a referendum are now screaming bloody murder. Basically, it's time to do work. If you haven't done so already, I suggest signing up to the "bring the tide to Virginia Beach" Facebook page, where they have continual updates and political action reports. They are also organizing rally's and events in support of light rail. I really think we can get this thing to va. Beach, we're just gonna have to sweat a little to do it.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I don't think the referendum has anything to do with their being more Reps. or Dems. to the polls this November. It is smart to do it then because their will be the higest voter turnout to the polls, period. And I think Republican turn out will be high this year even moreso because they know if things don't change after this election our country is really screwed. There can be conservatives who vote Republican and still be in favor of light rail. :)

Edited by metalman
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I don't think the referendum has anything to do with their being more Reps. or Dems. to the polls this November. It is smart to do it then because their will be the higest voter turnout to the polls, period. And I think Republican turn out will be high this year even moreso because they know if things don't change after this election our country is really screwed. There can be conservatives who vote Republican and still be in favor of light rail. :)

But typically that tends to be the minority when it comes to Republicans and public transit. Maybe you are right and there has been some major mindset changes with Republicans voters there, but I don't remember it being like that when I was growing up there. My guess is that for something like this to pass would require a number of Republican voters to be so dissappointed with their choices like we Democrats were when Kerry was running that we didn't have as many show up to vote.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 1 month later...

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.
×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

By using this site you agree to our Terms of Use and Privacy Policy. We have placed cookies on your device to help make this website better. You can adjust your cookie settings, otherwise we'll assume you're okay to continue.