Virginia Beach Light Rail and Transit

[urbanlife]

I think that the city asking for other proposals was just a formality. I think they have already decided to go with the original proposal.

Why in the world would a company propose maglev? Seems dumb to exit a light rail train at newtown and then enter a maglev train. Might as well have Rapid Bus Transit....

 

I agree, it makes more sense to use one system throughout and in this case it is light rail.  Though if the city wanted to do maglev trains, I could see something like that put in place in Pembroke to connect each of the future districts together.  It would actually make more sense than a streetcar line due to it being above the road so that traffic doesn't have an effect on it.

 

As for the rest of the city, Rapid Bus Transit should be used with the light rail and turn a number of light rail stops into bus transit hubs which makes it easier to layout local bus commute lines.

[jeffconn]

Just a reminder: one of the companies making light rail proposals, American Maglev Technology, was the company behind the ODU monorail disaster. They're snake oil salesmen, pure and simple.

Edited October 23, 2013 by jeffconn

[VBIllini13]

Just a reminder: one of the companies making light rail proposals, American Maglev Technology, was the company behind the ODU monorail disaster. They're snake oil salesmen, pure and simple.

 

I was wondering if that was the same company. Granted the ODU track already had a slew of problems when they took over, but I don't think they would be the best option for Virginia Beach.  A single, continuous light rail line that connects with the Norfolk track is better, in my opinion.

[Harry Strait]

Actually Virginia Beach wants their own future transportation system that doesn't rely on heavy rail like the traditional lightrail system.. They want something that will flow and without congestion.. it also makes financial sense and good on the environment..It would also show that Virginia Beach is for the future with a future MEGLEV system.. 300 Million beats 1.5 billion for a lightrail that runs on a street when we could have a elevated system that doesn't disrupt traffic..

Edited November 9, 2013 by Harry Strait

[metalman]

It's not a heavy rail....that's why it's called light rail.

The Maglev is not a proven system yet. I was at ODU during that debacle. American maglev totally screwed the pooch on that one. The VA beach light will have overpasses at all the major intersections and will be in its own right-of-way for the great majority of the time. I don't think it'll have the same congestiveness that the downtown Norfolk route has.

Connectivity of a regional mass transit is essential. The only way I can see Maglev be used is for a spur track that you would have to get off and transfer for anyway, not for the main Norfolk-oceanfront track.

[Harry Strait]

The tracks is what I was referring too.. lol

[urbanlife]

It's not a heavy rail....that's why it's called light rail.

The Maglev is not a proven system yet. I was at ODU during that debacle. American maglev totally screwed the pooch on that one. The VA beach light will have overpasses at all the major intersections and will be in its own right-of-way for the great majority of the time. I don't think it'll have the same congestiveness that the downtown Norfolk route has.

Connectivity of a regional mass transit is essential. The only way I can see Maglev be used is for a spur track that you would have to get off and transfer for anyway, not for the main Norfolk-oceanfront track.

I would like to see VB extend the existing line that Norfolk has and then around the Town Center create a transit center where multiple lines can spiral out from within Virginia Beach to better secure the TC to be Virginia Beach's true downtown.  I don't imagine any of this happening in the next 10 years, but based on Bellevue, WA growth, that city basically built a massive downtown in a very short period of time.

[metalman]

[vdogg]

So ridership drops by 26 people for 1 month compared to 2011 and the pilot reports it as though it's some kind of catastrophe? There are no words...

http://hamptonroads.com/2013/11/tide-ridership-below-openingyear-numbers

[vdogg]

I agree with Jim Wood on this. Reviewing the maglev is a waste of time and resources ( it also gives fodder to the anti-LRT crowd).

http://hamptonroads.com/2013/11/va-beach-will-review-3-plans-extend-train-service

[Harry Strait]

It all boils down to the cost and a broader perspective.. Maglev is cheaper..

Edited November 14, 2013 by Harry Strait

[757Duke]

While cheaper, a system that runs continuously from one end to the other without requiring transfers would ultimately be more efficient, and in turn more desireable for the rider.

[vdogg]

It all boils down to the cost and a broader perspective.. Maglev is cheaper..

Keep in mind though that this is the same guy from the same company that proposed the same thing to ODU. They built a test track there and the technology never worked. ODU was left holding the bag with an unused track crisscrossing campus and a transportation system that didn't work. In order for me to even want to give this guy the time of day he is going to have to prove himself, and on a much larger scale. If VB pursues this option it will be disastrous, and would likely kill any chance of effective mass transit in this city for a generation.

[BFG]

Keep in mind though that this is the same guy from the same company that proposed the same thing to ODU. They built a test track there and the technology never worked. ODU was left holding the bag with an unused track crisscrossing campus and a transportation system that didn't work. In order for me to even want to give this guy the time of day he is going to have to prove himself, and on a much larger scale. If VB pursues this option it will be disastrous, and would likely kill any chance of effective mass transit in this city for a generation.

Every time I see the Maglev track/bridge on ODU's campus I shake my head...reminds me of that episode of The Simpsons with the monorail that ended up being a failure.

 

I get that the cost may be cheaper, but it's also an unproven system that already has one strike in this region. The Tide has established itself as a successful transit option...why not keep things consistent?

[urbanvb]

I've read that maglev is successful in Europe however this company had many years to perfect Odu's train but ultimately failed. And even if he has perfected it to me it would make more sense to use the same technology (light rail) to create a seamless line.

[Nathan_in_DC]

I've read that maglev is successful in Europe however this company had many years to perfect Odu's train but ultimately failed. And even if he has perfected it to me it would make more sense to use the same technology (light rail) to create a seamless line.

 

Maglev hasn't ever been used in any large scale applications, even in Europe. There is a line in Shanghai, Japan and South Korea.  None of them are very big or much more than technology demonstrators.

[metalman]

The technology in the American Maglev is different than European systems, hence the unproven science. If I remember correctly- The technology is in more in train instead of the track which is what makes it cheaper--or something like that.

Edited November 15, 2013 by metalman

[urbanvb]

The city of Virginia Beach agrees to pay consultants to review proposals to extend the Tide. I can't wait for the day when the Tide stretches from downtown to the Oceanfront. The implications of an expanding Town Center and those areas around the stations could be significant imo.

http://m.insidebiz.com/news/vb-council-agrees-hire-consultants-study-proposals-extend-tide

[urbanvb]

HRT will hold meetings on transit update.

http://hamptonroads.com/2014/02/hrt-hold-meetings-va-beach-transit-study

[jeffconn]

Here's a transportation option that makes sense: a water taxi in VB linking Rudee Inlet to the Virginia Aquarium, starting this summer:

http://hamptonroads.com/2014/03/rudee-inlet-path-will-connect-va-beach-boardwalk

[vdogg]

http://hamptonroads.com/2014/03/beach-city-council-impressed-maglev-presentation

Maglev? I'm sorry but this is just plain stupid. We need one continuous mode of transportation where people don't have to change trains. If this guy suddenly has the tech to make his maglev work, then why didn't he ever share this with ODU? We don't have time to run around after every shiny object that flits about before City Council's eyes. I swear these people have the attention spans of crickets...

[HRVT]

http://hamptonroads.com/2014/03/beach-city-council-impressed-maglev-presentation

Maglev? I'm sorry but this is just plain stupid. We need one continuous mode of transportation where people don't have to change trains. If this guy suddenly has the tech to make his maglev work, then why didn't he ever share this with ODU? We don't have time to run around after every shiny object that flits about before City Council's eyes. I swear these people have the attention spans of crickets...

This would be a ridiculously stupid decision if they go the Maglev route. One, it hasn't worked outside of testing environments... and with that in mind, there's no way to know how much it's going to cost on a much larger scale. Not to mention the cost of maintenance over the long haul. The technology is still iffy at best and has already failed before at ODU.

And then on top of ALL of that, it doesn't even connect to the current system, keeping the transportation network fragmented. And while I've seen proponents talking about how easy it is to transfer trains, you're talking about two different tickets to board, plus the added wait time for the next train. It MIGHT save money... but it won't get used anywhere near to the degree as one cohesive system.

Then again, it would be so Virginia Beach to screw this up and stay disconnected from the rest of the region (especially if/when the light rail goes to Greenbrier). Just mind-boggling how stupid this is. Then again, there are probably some VB citizens who prefer to stay segregated from the rest of the region.

Edited March 20, 2014 by vdogg

[urbanvb]

I have heard that Maglev works in Europe but I don't know if this guy/company has it all really figured out yet. And yes having to change trains in Newtown will really be a big detriment. I think the main line from Norfolk to the Oceanfront needs to be a seamless experience. If and when (if ever) Maglev is perfected perhaps it could be an extension to say Chesapeake or elsewhere in the region. I seriously hope the city will make the best decision. This could be a downfall if not done right. 

Edited March 20, 2014 by urbanvb

[HRVT]

I have heard that Maglev works in Europe but I don't know if this guy/company has it all really figured out yet. And yes having to change trains in Newtown will really be a big detriment. I think the main line from Norfolk to the Oceanfront needs to be a seamless experience. If and when (if ever) Maglev is perfected perhaps it could be an extension to say Chesapeake or elsewhere in the region. I seriously hope the city will make the best decision. This could be a downfall if not done right. 

That's just it. Either way, it's a HUGE investment. You don't spend hundreds of millions on a project and not do it right. IMO, it would no longer be a cost-effective venture if it cannot be a seamless light-rail experience. To me, that's a deal breaker.

 

As for Europe, from the research I've done, it appears that again, the concept works well in test environments, but has not worked in actual practice. And heck, while I know it was 10 years ago, it failed miserably at ODU. I'm sure the technology has improved immensely, but this is a HUGE risk to take on for a disjointed project with nothing but a guesstimate on the cost (as provided by the company building it). And since it hasn't been put into practice elsewhere, there's no way to find the REAL cost in a live environment.

[BFG]

I can't see them going for this, even at a fraction of LRT's cost. Mayor Sessoms is stressing the importance of regionalism and LRT expansion would be a perfect start...going with a completely different transportation system makes little sense, when LRT has proven to work.