Virginia Beach Light Rail and Transit

[BFG]

Hopefully Moss will finally sit down and be quiet. Kudos to Council for not budging. 

[vdogg]

http://hamptonroads.com/2015/10/virginia-beach-council-opts-keep-lightrail-funds-budget-despite-shortfall#_ga=1.156599997.728525343.1443265937

 

No one stepped up? Not even Dyer? Lol  ! That said, don't think for a second this is Moss's last turn at bat. We'll hear from him again. When is he up for reelection? I'm starting to think a concerted effort to get him replaced is the only way we'll be able to move this city forward.

Edited October 21, 2015 by vdogg

[BFG]

Although I live in Norfolk, I sent an email to city council asking them to keep the momentum going on this and the arena. Now is not the time to get cold feet...people want this, and honestly, I'm scouting the Pilot and Inside Business every day for new details.

I also wouldn't be surprised if Moss has another trick up his sleeve...he's like a movie villain looking for new ways to delay this project.

Edited October 21, 2015 by BFG

[tallguy81"]

we need mass transit but light rail is way too expensive and it would delay emergency responders at small at grade crossings.  monorail is not just for amusement anymore, would cost less, travel at the same speed, be fully overhead, and would carry the same amount of passengers.  plus the city cannot pay for a widening of holland rd. between s. independence and lynnhaven because they dont have the money,  the boulevard at independence, rosemont at the boulevard, and newtown at the boulevard (which is in va beach) need to be reworked, and the lights retimed.  The money from the light rail project would have given these much more crucial projects a good start.  They could also follow the current nationwide trend of getting rid of the cameras.

Edited October 22, 2015 by tallguy81"

[vdogg]

we need mass transit but light rail is way too expensive and it would delay emergency responders at small at grade crossings.  monorail is not just for amusement anymore, would cost less, travel at the same speed, be fully overhead, and would carry the same amount of passengers.  plus the city cannot pay for a widening of holland rd. between s. independence and lynnhaven because they dont have the money,  the boulevard at independence, rosemont at the boulevard, and newtown at the boulevard (which is in va beach) need to be reworked, and the lights retimed.  The money from the light rail project would have given these much more crucial projects a good start.  They could also follow the current nationwide trend of getting rid of the cameras.

Charlotte and Portland have extensive light rail systems. I've never heard of this "delay emergency responders" issue. If that were really an issue, then what about all the regular train at grade crossings that dot this nation by the thousands? I understand you don't like light rail, but that particular argument is a bit of a straw man. As for the cost, it is generally understood that HRT inflated the cost estimate so that they wouldn't overrun the budget later down the road. A more accurate cost estimate is coming sometime next year. As far as retiming lights, totally agreed. That is a huge issue, especially around the holland road area. As for those projects being "much more crucial" than light rail? On this point we'll have to agree to disagree.

Edited October 22, 2015 by vdogg

[tallguy81"]

there is a new type of technology being developed that would allow track lights to turn from green to red from a emergency responders vehicle.  problem is, that train won't stop quickly, and disaster if it does.  vbfd brought the issue of being delayed.  i'm sure they r not the only ones who have the issue.  many other responders probably have this complaint as well.  I used to be all for light rail until i read that norfolk's is the worst in the country in terms of ridership.  i wouldnt mind my tax dollars going towards monorail and a an arena though.

 

[vdogg]

there is a new type of technology being developed that would allow track lights to turn from green to red from a emergency responders vehicle.  problem is, that train won't stop quickly, and disaster if it does.  vbfd brought the issue of being delayed.  i'm sure they r not the only ones who have the issue.  many other responders probably have this complaint as well.  I used to be all for light rail until i read that norfolk's is the worst in the country in terms of ridership.  i wouldnt mind my tax dollars going towards monorail and a an arena though.

 

The Norfolk line Is a 7 mile starter line that does not go between population centers or major places of employment. The article you are referring to was biased and totally misrepresented the findings of the "study". You cannot compare what everyone agrees is a starter line to a fully built out system like Portland or Charlotte or Salt Lake. If there were any political will power the line would've been extended by now and we wouldn't have this issue. It's like putting a 3rd grader in a race with a bunch of high school boys and then calling him a failure because he didn't win. There are a lot of extenuating circumstances that need to be taken into account, but I suspect that LR opponents know this is the case and choose to gloss over them anyway.

[HRVT]

The Norfolk line Is a 7 mile starter line that does not go between population centers or major places of employment. The article you are referring to was biased and totally misrepresented the findings of the "study". You cannot compare what everyone agrees is a starter line to a fully built out system like Portland or Charlotte or Salt Lake. If there were any political will power the line would've been extended by now and we wouldn't have this issue. It's like putting a 3rd grader in a race with a bunch of high school boys and then calling him a failure because he didn't win. There are a lot of extenuating circumstances that need to be taken into account, but I suspect that LR opponents know this is the case and choose to gloss over them anyway.

Exactly. While the Charlotte line isn't that much bigger than our's (in fact, an extension to Town Center will make our's longer than Charlotte's current alignment) their line actually takes people where they want to go. The problem with our's is that isn't really very useful for a large population. The Newtown Rd stop is essentially suburbia. The Military Road stop isn't the most convenient to get to. But then after that, the stops continue to be suburbia. 

People ignore that our starter line was just that... a starter line. It was known that a lot of money was going to be lost right now. But what is being ignored is just how low-balled many of the other ridership projections have been for lines that are more useful than The Tide in its current alignment. Charlotte's line opened in 2007 and ridership numbers were about right on the money. However, ridership was expected to double by 2025. It didn't take that long. Ridership had gone up more than double in two MONTHS. Ridership has begun to level off to about 15000 passengers a day. Not bad for a line that travels fewer than 10 miles. It's going to be interesting to see what happens.

But I leave you with the words of Jim Puckett (the guy who was essentially Charlotte's John Atkinson). He said "our concern was whether we would have a white elephant, and it doesn't seem we do". Interesting what happens when you keep an open mind. But there aren't too many of those in Hampton Roads.

[BFG]

I really wish I could go to this. 

http://altdaily.com/features/news/121-opinion36/8254-rally-to-save-the-tide

It's a rally to "Save the Tide"; the plan is to start at the MacArthur station, pack the trains and ride to Newtown, then take the bus to Town Center to show how bad it would be if VB doesn't extend light rail. Like the article says, the naysayers are in the minority, but they are a vocal bunch, and they're not going down without a fight. Letting them know they're wrong is a simple, but effective alternative.

Edited October 30, 2015 by BFG

[lil-bear]

There shouldn't be any problem with the LR part of the trip. Now the part where they get on the bus will take a while to get to Town Center. Buses are at the mercy of the traffic they are in.

[CrazyPy]

There shouldn't be any problem with the LR part of the trip. Now the part where they get on the bus will take a while to get to Town Center. Buses are at the mercy of the traffic they are in.

I believe that's the whole idea

[vdogg]

I really wish I could go to this. 

http://altdaily.com/features/news/121-opinion36/8254-rally-to-save-the-tide

It's a rally to "Save the Tide"; the plan is to start at the MacArthur station, pack the trains and ride to Newtown, then take the bus to Town Center to show how bad it would be if VB doesn't extend light rail. Like the article says, the naysayers are in the minority, but they are a vocal bunch, and they're not going down without a fight. Letting them know they're wrong is a simple, but effective alternative.

I find myself in agreement with some of the naysayers with regards to the naming of the event. "Save the tide" gives the impression of a failing endeavor. The tide doesn't need saving, it just needs promoting. I would've chosen a different moniker, something a bit more positive.

[BFG]

I find myself in agreement with some of the naysayers with regards to the naming of the event. "Save the tide" gives the impression of a failing endeavor. The tide doesn't need saving, it just needs promoting. I would've chosen a different moniker, something a bit more positive.

I agree. Calling it "Save the Tide" almost sounds defeatist. 

[varider]

After watching the Council session tonight, I cannot begin to fathom why the State has to, in essence, beg Virginia Beach to move forward with light rail to Town Center. Transportation secretary repeatedly stated tonight that the $155M offer that is on the table right now will be diverted to NoVA if we do not continue moving forward and staying on schedule for a 2019 opening of the extension to Town Center. I was left with an uneasy feeling after listening to Dyer's illogical suppositions. I was under the impression that we had gained a sort of momentum toward progress and investment in big city amenities, but after watching tonight, I would not be surprised one bit if 20 years later the eastern terminus of the light rail line was still Newtown road. 

[urbanvb]

Here is the Pilot article about this. Interesting bit in that article...

Mayor Will Sessoms said he spoke Monday with a company that brought good-paying jobs for young people to Town Center in part because of the proposed light rail plan.

“That company can move to Charlotte tomorrow if we don’t follow our plans,” Sessoms said.

[vdogg]

Well, I will say this. That is probably the most balanced light rail article I've seen in quite some time. No hyperbolic headline and a straight presentation of the facts. Sec. Layne did a great job dismantling Dyer's straw man arguments as well. He didn't take any of the bait and stayed on target. I think this meeting may have done us some good.

[BFG]

I like Mayor Sessoms's focus on keeping millennials...good to know that the powers that be around here are starting to recognize our generation as the future.

With the arena deal pending next month, I have a hard time believing they won't approve a LRT expansion, esp. after the traffic concerns VB residents voiced at last week's town hall meeting. That line eventually needs to make its way to the Oceanfront. Also good to see the grandstanding done by people like Dyer get shot down. Not that the naysayers will listen, but good to see the fight continue to get fought.

[lil-bear]

With the potential development of the arena and the continuation of VBTC..... LRT is making even more sense!!!

[vdogg]

So, Dyer is in the news again. I'm not even going to link to the article,  cause at this point it would be redundant.You already know what he has to say.  My question is this,  if they're so confident in the level of opposition to light rail why are they pushing to add a referendum to the ballot before they've even collected the necessary signatures? Sounds like someone is trying to circumvent the process. Hmm.....

[lil-bear]

Dyer does not impress me.

Aren't the opponents to LRT just insulting the voter's intelligence  who vote yes on the last referendum?

Just because HE doesn't think anyone will ride the Tide does not mean voters feel the same.

I would like to predict that if the Tide is expanded to VBTC, ridership will at least double from current numbers.

[BFG]

According to the Pilot, 13 companies are interested in working on the extension line. 

http://www.pilotonline.com/news/local/transportation/more-than-a-dozen-firms-interested-in-building-virginia-beach/article_a316ec51-98b0-5c1a-9799-996d88b0973a.html

[vdogg]

Dyer has a new excuse for not supporting light rail. 

http://pilotonline.com/news/government/local/virginia-beach-council-hears-proposal-on-growing-millennial-population-around/article_68d7d0b4-fda7-59a5-be65-6691379e4d02.html

"Dyer worries about how development near a light rail line along Interstate 264 would negatively impact small businesses in his district of Centerville and areas of the city that aren’t including in the 2 percent of land in the Strategic Growth Areas. He questioned whether all new businesses would gravitate toward high density areas."

That's right, just keep moving those goal posts. Signature collection must not be going very well. 

[HRVT]

15 minutes ago, vdogg said:

Dyer has a new excuse for not supporting light rail. 

http://pilotonline.com/news/government/local/virginia-beach-council-hears-proposal-on-growing-millennial-population-around/article_68d7d0b4-fda7-59a5-be65-6691379e4d02.html

"Dyer worries about how development near a light rail line along Interstate 264 would negatively impact small businesses in his district of Centerville and areas of the city that aren’t including in the 2 percent of land in the Strategic Growth Areas. He questioned whether all new businesses would gravitate toward high density areas."

That's right, just keep moving those goal posts. Signature collection must not be going very well. 

Huh? I don't understand. Are people gravitating to Centerville now? I mean, this isn't even grasping at straws anymore, these are just flat out nonsensical arguments that you make when you realize you don't have a leg to stand on anymore. The people who shop in Centerville are the people who live in Centerville. Centerville residents who are going to shop in Town Center or in similar places are going to drive, as they continue to do. They aren't really in the light rail market.

Or... is Dyer admitting that Light Rail is a bigger draw than he cares to admit. Can't have it both ways. You can't say it's basically useless and then turn around and say that it could affect commerce in a relatively secluded neighborhood 15 minutes away.

Edited February 3, 2016 by HRVT

[BFG]

Since when has Dyer cared that much about Centerville? Now all of a sudden, he's concerned? Light rail wouldn't come anywhere close to that part of town, and it's not like the place is booming with mom and pop shops. Last time I drove out there (about a year or two ago), it was a bunch of fast food chains, Family Dollars and 7-11s. In other words, the same exact thing you find in any other suburb of Virginia Beach, as well as -- wait for it -- Town Center and the strip!

He's grasping at straws now, esp. since Dave Hansen is in favor of expanding. They don't even need to use Charlotte or Dallas as examples; just look how much business has grown in Norfolk since LRT started up!

[BFG]

If the Beach holds a referendum for LRT, they will likely lose the $150M+ allocated by the state. Sidenote: I really, really cannot stand John Dyer for holding this region hostage with his grandstanding.

http://pilotonline.com/news/government/local/state-official-says-he-will-drop-light-rail-funding-if/article_9e605942-9d45-521e-ae5d-c361df3b7ae2.html