Virginia Beach Light Rail and Transit

[mistermetaj]

According the the Virginia Pilot, the No vote was almost a mirror of a Trump vote. I fail to see anything else but race playing a factor, or at best, people not being educated on the fact that their taxes weren't coming back with a No vote.

There was never an understanding of the long game for No voters. It's a shame because I do believe they want better jobs for themselves and their kids, but they have taken a large piece of the package off the table to attract big businesses. Mass transit and regionalism is fundamental. They blew both.

[BFG]

The biggest issue I've had with this region is leaders' (and by extension, a lot of residents) tunnel vision. A lot of only planning for the next 3-5 years, instead of future generations. And the planning was obsolete 20 years ago.

So many people say LRT goes nowhere, instead of saying in due time, it'll go to way more places. But like Jeff said, there's a lot of inability to see the forest for the trees; I've had a few discussions with people who said we don't need an arena because we won't get a team, like that's the only tenant. Even the USM people said they want a year-round destination and concerts.

There's a recent Pilot article basically asking "What next?" Kenny Alexander said this decision hurts our regionalism hopes, but Norfolk still has to move forward. 

[K76T]

The Presidential election results mirrors the feelings of conservatives nationwide.

The next 4 years will be their last harrah because it's no way Trump fullfill his promises without raising taxes. Perhaps Trump will pro-development with his business background. It would be hilarious to see conservatives attacking Trump when a new Trump hotel and Casino goes up at the Oceanfront. Add legalized weed and watch conservatives go nuts.

Seriously though, as much as we love skyscrapers and such, we have to hope racial issues do not tear our country apart. The recent headlines of racial violence snd threats of violence supercedes all and has the potential to destroy what little advances every city nationwide has accomplished. 

 

[Former Resident of HR]

On 11/9/2016 at 1:33 PM, carolinaboy said:

As someone from outside of Hampton Roads, but lives in the area, I have always wondered just what makes VA Beach think it's so special? The oceanfront? I think it's tacky, gaudy and trashy. Town Center? Pretty cool, but doesn't really feel like a town or a center. The vast tracts of cookie-cutter subdivisions? The wastelands of suburban sprawl? The sea of parking lots? What exactly do they have to offer that elevates them above Norfolk? I'm glad the state may rescend their monetary offer and hope Norfolk can get some of it for the Tide. Sorry vdogg, you're probably have to give me a warning or something.

A couple things to understand about this area. In the 1950's people began moving en masse from Norfolk to Princess Anne County. For various reasons but a biggie was to avoid desegregation. PAC was worried because Norfolk City began gobbling up its areas on the border (e.g. the areas close to Newtown Road) so they merged with the small city of Virginia Beach (what we now call "The Oceanfront") and thus stopped the spread of Norfolk. 

Added into this mix is a large number of military people. This area has a lot of people from all over the nation but large numbers of them were from small conservative towns and these people bring their views with them. So Norfolk is a "big scary city" and they avoid it like the plague. My spouse's family went to Norfolk maybe once or twice a year as a family.  

So the bottom line is that they don't want Norfolk coming to them. They don't want to be urban. They are not urban at heart. Many are from small towns or the children of people from small towns. They see light rail as bringing in the "Norfolk element" (I will leave that up to your interpretation as to what their coded words actually mean) and costing too much money. And although Trump won VB, it was by a smaller margin than the light rail lost so it's not 100% a democrat vs. republican thing. Had the city council not dragged its heels for the past 4 years after voters approved it, we would be in a different place. Maybe Norfolk can get some other city on board like Chesapeake but I doubt it will expand anytime in the near future.   

[Norva757]

21 hours ago, JPN0731 said:

A couple things to understand about this area. In the 1950's people began moving en masse from Norfolk to Princess Anne County. For various reasons but a biggie was to avoid desegregation. PAC was worried because Norfolk City began gobbling up its areas on the border (e.g. the areas close to Newtown Road) so they merged with the small city of Virginia Beach (what we now call "The Oceanfront") and thus stopped the spread of Norfolk. 

Added into this mix is a large number of military people. This area has a lot of people from all over the nation but large numbers of them were from small conservative towns and these people bring their views with them. So Norfolk is a "big scary city" and they avoid it like the plague. My spouse's family went to Norfolk maybe once or twice a year as a family.  

So the bottom line is that they don't want Norfolk coming to them. They don't want to be urban. They are not urban at heart. Many are from small towns or the children of people from small towns. They see light rail as bringing in the "Norfolk element" (I will leave that up to your interpretation as to what their coded words actually mean) and costing too much money. And although Trump won VB, it was by a smaller margin than the light rail lost so it's not 100% a democrat vs. republican thing. Had the city council not dragged its heels for the past 4 years after voters approved it, we would be in a different place. Maybe Norfolk can get some other city on board like Chesapeake but I doubt it will expand anytime in the near future.  

 

Also we don't have that many that stay here and raise families like most regions our size because of the transient population. People don't put in as much to the region as they would if they were actually planting seeds here. People come and go and could care less about what happens to this region. I was born and raised here. Also, I don't see it as a conservative thing but as most of the most out spoken were retirees and seeing problems being transported to Vabeach from the urban areas. They don't care about making this region more competitive with other metros because they are simply retired and see progress as raising the cost of living for them.

[brikkman]

On 11/11/2016 at 7:05 PM, BFG said:

The biggest issue I've had with this region is leaders' (and by extension, a lot of residents) tunnel vision. A lot of only planning for the next 3-5 years, instead of future generations. And the planning was obsolete 20 years ago.

So many people say LRT goes nowhere, instead of saying in due time, it'll go to way more places. But like Jeff said, there's a lot of inability to see the forest for the trees; I've had a few discussions with people who said we don't need an arena because we won't get a team, like that's the only tenant. Even the USM people said they want a year-round destination and concerts.

There's a recent Pilot article basically asking "What next?" Kenny Alexander said this decision hurts our regionalism hopes, but Norfolk still has to move forward. 

I would say the arena doesn't make sense if you are not going to move more that type of environment. Having that arena in va.beach is like putting an urban perspective into a place that has no intention of being urban. For that same reason, TC also doesn't make much sense to me either. Its that disconnect we have talked about on these forums that killed LRT, and the fact it was still pretty pricey without asking the question of "why" and who can build it cheaper.

[vdogg]

On 11/9/2016 at 1:33 PM, carolinaboy said:

As someone from outside of Hampton Roads, but lives in the area, I have always wondered just what makes VA Beach think it's so special? The oceanfront? I think it's tacky, gaudy and trashy. Town Center? Pretty cool, but doesn't really feel like a town or a center. The vast tracts of cookie-cutter subdivisions? The wastelands of suburban sprawl? The sea of parking lots? What exactly do they have to offer that elevates them above Norfolk? I'm glad the state may rescend their monetary offer and hope Norfolk can get some of it for the Tide. Sorry vdogg, you're probably have to give me a warning or something.

No warning, let's just try to stay focused and not bash other cities. Every city has good and bad points. This isn't our best moment, but we're overall moving in the right direction. These things take time, and there will be growing pains. 46% of people who were eligible to vote did not show up. The ones who wish to hold us back typically win in low turnout elections. Let this be a lesson to all: Even if you don't like those at the top of the ticket, there are a lot of down ballot races and issues that are just as important. You still need to turn out and vote.

[BFG]

For what it's worth, Council is discussing "alternatives" as we speak. Alissa Skelton says that Mayor Sessoms is proposing a workshop on how to move forward.

I'm sure Maglev will be brought up, but I hope they give more consideration to Bus Rapid Transit. It wouldn't be a perfect replacement, but it's a decent start.

Edited November 15, 2016 by BFG

[baobabs727]

On November 14, 2016 at 10:50 AM, brikkman said:

I would say the arena doesn't make sense if you are not going to move more that type of environment. Having that arena in va.beach is like putting an urban perspective into a place that has no intention of being urban. For that same reason, TC also doesn't make much sense to me either. Its that disconnect we have talked about on these forums that killed LRT, and the fact it was still pretty pricey without asking the question of "why" and who can build it cheaper.

There is nothing particularly urban about an arena (nor suburban, for that matter), IMO.  It's more about population centers, geographic positioning, &, for us, tourists. 

Town Center is just fine as part of the new-urbanism movement. If you don't like NU, that's OK too. But I don't see original urbanism  as "better" than NU, or vise-versa.

As for LR  alternatives and the need for "adequate time" to discuss the same, I think most of us have had enough of all-talk-and-no-action-politicians.Yes...please...let's have another few hundred studies, surveys and conferences. How 'bout another referendum? Kick this thing down the curb until we're all dead and buried.

That's what counts as progress these days. 

 

 

 

Edited November 16, 2016 by baobabs727

[skylinefan]

The vote not to extend LR into Virginia Beach was not really a shock.  Dismaying that the city I was raised in still has not changed that much.  Still the same old tired attitude about Norfolk thugs making their way into Virginia Beach's idyllic suburban oasis and committing all kinds of unspeakable crimes.  Until the city gets away from this attitude you can build the Town Center and build arenas all you want the city just will not pivot from suburban to more urban like countless other suburban communities are doing.   

[BFG]

Council wants input on how it should handle the old Norfolk Southern line and improve bus service in the city. Not holding my breath for a viable solution.

http://southsidedaily.com/2017/01/18/virginia-beach-city-council-wants-to-hear-from-public-before-introducing-public-transportation-alternatives/

[urbanvb]

Hyperloop. Sorry I couldn't resist.

[vdogg]

Aka, another study. Whatever... I'll check this thread again in 2025 and see if anything has changed.

[carolinaboy]

When does VB build its wall?

[urbanvb]

The city will hold a meeting today to get opinions on what to do with the land acquired for light rail. It will be live streamed.

http://pilotonline.com/news/government/local/what-should-be-done-with-land-purchased-for-light-rail/article_f4e7039f-95be-5a03-8775-56a809c9da2f.html

 

Edited January 31, 2017 by urbanvb

[BFG]

As much as I still want LRT, I've come to terms with it being off the table. I could live with bus rapid transit, assuming that could be feasibly done on that corridor.

[BFG]

So...not only will VB not get the $150M in state funding (a move that continues to boggle my mind), but now they'll likely have to pay back the $20M. Wonder how many of the LRT naysayers are applauding this move, considering their "tax dollars" are still going towards something.

http://pilotonline.com/news/government/local/virginia-beach-will-likely-have-to-repay-state-million-for/article_fa1017cf-e6f4-5cc8-9f5e-69327520c101.html

[carolinaboy]

New VB Tourism slogan.......

 

"Come visit Virginia Beach where you can take a bus to our border, then get on a train to visit a real city. But, hey, we just got another grocery store."

[vdogg]

15 hours ago, BFG said:

So...not only will VB not get the $150M in state funding (a move that continues to boggle my mind), but now they'll likely have to pay back the $20M. Wonder how many of the LRT naysayers are applauding this move, considering their "tax dollars" are still going towards something.

http://pilotonline.com/news/government/local/virginia-beach-will-likely-have-to-repay-state-million-for/article_fa1017cf-e6f4-5cc8-9f5e-69327520c101.html

I wonder if Norfolk can apply for that 150 Millionto jump start their expansion. 

[BFG]

6 minutes ago, vdogg said:

I wonder if Norfolk can apply for that 150 Millionto jump start their expansion. 

From what I understand, the money goes back to the state. Norfolk has to apply through the Smart Scale program.

[urbanlife]

On 2/2/2017 at 1:39 PM, vdogg said:

I wonder if Norfolk can apply for that 150 Millionto jump start their expansion. 

Norfolk should be pushing forward with expanding and adding new lines, it is clear that they will be doing it without VB, but that shouldn't stop them from having an extensive light rail system.

[BFG]

Look beneath Kerry's looking for a reason to diss light rail, there actually is a good argument here. Virginia Beach has a half-hearted (for lack of a lower part of the body) approach to improving transit in place of LRT. The digs on light rail were unnecessary, but it's Kerry Dougherty so...

https://pilotonline.com/news/local/columnist/kerry-dougherty/virginia-beach-should-improve-bus-service-if-it-s-serious/article_c6950862-c189-56fa-b9a3-e1335f226050.html

[Up2313]

I couldn't get over the part where she said it was 90 million a mile, which is true. However, It was only around 80 million that the city was footing the bill for. Reminds me of the misleading information that the anti light rail group use to spout. Really disheartening. 

[BFG]

1 hour ago, Up2313 said:

I couldn't get over the part where she said it was 90 million a mile, which is true. However, It was only around 80 million that the city was footing the bill for. Reminds me of the misleading information that the anti light rail group use to spout. Really disheartening. 

I forgot about that...the total was estimated at $240M, and VB only had to put up the amount you said, since the state was supplying a huge chunk of about 155M.

Ugh...I just got irritated all over again.

Edited October 25, 2017 by BFG
I misread the quoted post

[urbanvb]

And does anyone else feel BRT would never work? Even if the city used the row of land they purchased I just don’t see it being successful. On a side note I noticed Priority Group has left the old Circuit City building which the city owns.