Virginia Beach Light Rail and Transit

[urbanlife]

Actually the VBTA is full of Libertarians and Messnerists-Greenmunists.

There are pro-mass transit Republicans: Thelma Drake got Norfolk LRT Federal funding, HRT VP of Public Affairs James Toscano is a former Bob McDonnell aide, and I'm a former member of the Virginia Beach Republican City Committee.

Libertarians and Messnerists-Greenmunists, now there's a group of people than no one should ever listen to. vdogg, no politic talk here, just trying to figure out the nut jobs that would call Light Rail a Marxist thing.

I do hope the metro gets it, but I think there is alot of problems that will come because of it, and it will all be about safety. We are dealing with that here in Portland, and the racial and poverty problems here are nothing like how they are there.

Actually on a side note, I have been thinking alot about the current state the metro is in there, and especially Norfolk and the South Norfolk area. I am curious if I will be able to figure out how to make areas like that better with my thesis I have been developing. So way off topic, but just a random thought I wanted to write down.

[vdogg]

Beach goes after NS track

Virginia Beach is going after Norfolk Southern

[Henry_Ryto]

Beach goes after NS track

I make the media again. Soricelli spoke to me after my remarks to City Council; I e-mailed him a copy.

[vdogg]

Beach seeks state aid to buy rail line

Virginia Beach wants a $15 million grant from the Virginia Department of Transportation to help pay for the rail line that runs between Newtown and Birdneck roads if an agreement to sell it is ever reached.

The track is owned by Norfolk Southern Corp. and is considered the logical extension of Norfolk

[vdogg]

Here we go Henry. I thought the loyal opposition had been awfully quiet lately. Must've been the holidays.

Light Rail, another developers boondoggle

A 'Light Rail' story in Thursday's Virginian-Pile It is about the City of Virginia Beach and its refusal to take

[Henry_Ryto]

Here we go Henry. I thought the loyal opposition had been awfully quiet lately. Must've been the holidays.

Light Rail, another developers boondoggle

The misinformation in this piece is just mindboggling.

Thanks, vdogg. I was just about to e-mail a few officials on how quiet the Deaniacs (hardly "loyal" opposition) have been.

Reid Greenmun, or as I've come to refer to him Green Reednut, is Transportation Chairman for the Virginia Beach Taxpayers Alliance. He's out on the looney right, calling light rail "Marxist" and mass transit "socialism". I served with him for three years (2002-2004) with the CCO; he stormed out of the CCO (trying to destroy it on the way out) when he couldn't turn it into a vehicle for his extreme right wing agenda.

As for him calling for a referendum on purchasing the NS ROW:

1. Everyone in Virginia Beach politics now knows Reid's tactic of calling for a referendum on everything he opposes. It's not about popular consent; it's about trying to kill what he doesn't want. (That dog don't hunt.)

2. Note his opposition is to light rail - but he calls for a referendum on the ROW. To point out the obvious, it doesn't necessarily have to be LRT down the ROW. (However, at this point, it's the only system that makes sense.)

As I posted after the Council vote, there's a consensus at the top on doing mass transit down the ROW, the only debate is which system. Therefore, Reid's tantrum will go nowhere.

To try to answer his 10 questions myself:

1. Norfolk is $31m per mile; I would expect VB to be about $33m, given the need for feeder buses on a scale Norfolk didn't need. (For the most part, Norfolk is simply rerouting it's already good bus service.)

2. Look up Norfolk's figure, then count on slightly lower given the infrastructure that will already been in place. Norfolk is hoping to draw TEA-21 funds to cover O&M, which it will be more successful at if it can get VB on board.

3. HRT

4. The train cars will have about a 12 year life span, if memory serves me correct. Norfolk's are being paid for - in part - by the state.

5. About $500,000 per bus, with 1-2 buses per station. We can always apply for a Federal grant to cover it, as is being done for the first of the trolley replacements.

6. That's why you do the Study - DOH!

7. The City Council has yet to commission a DEIS, though I've being urging one.

8. Back to Meyera's 12/11 comments, the major at-grade crossings will be bridged.

The chutzpah in that question is that Green Reednut, on Bacon's Rebellion, angrily attacked the idea of bridging roads to give transit the right of way. (Why does it have to be the other way around, Reid?)

9. Ridiculous. Does Green Reednut expect a large influx of people simply to ride light rail? If it's such a drawing card, it's a great idea, isn't it?

10. The 1999 figure was $8.57. As I stated in the Norfolk thread, I would expect lower given the more realistic nature of this proposal.

[spiker3]

I really don't understand the purpose of the graphic at the bottom of the page comparing the two proposals. All it does (at least to me) is highlight how much more efficient and cost-beneficial the new system is. Less per mile by over half, less operating costs by $90 million, $14 million more projected earnings in fares, and that's just for the Norfolk line. I guess depending on how many NIMBYs there are in Virginia Beach this type of propoganda could be successful (i think we've come a lot longer in 8+ years) but with the feds and state chipping in some much money (what, nearly 2/3s the project?), and not having a sales tax increase to pay for the project....where's the problem? Moron

[Henry_Ryto]

I really don't understand the purpose of the graphic at the bottom of the page comparing the two proposals. All it does (at least to me) is highlight how much more efficient and cost-beneficial the new system is. Less per mile by over half, less operating costs by $90 million, $14 million more projected earnings in fares, and that's just for the Norfolk line. I guess depending on how many NIMBYs there are in Virginia Beach this type of propoganda could be successful (i think we've come a lot longer in 8+ years) but with the feds and state chipping in some much money (what, nearly 2/3s the project?), and not having a sales tax increase to pay for the project....where's the problem? Moron

In 1999, the proposal was for a regional gas tax to cover the local portion. (Sales tax was the 2002 referendum.)

The Deaniac game here is to infer that HRT is cooking the numbers, hiding the true cost of light rail. They would then spring much more on us later.

Of course, it's b.s. However, they're banking on paranoid people.

[RJWGMU]

I really don't understand the purpose of the graphic at the bottom of the page comparing the two proposals. All it does (at least to me) is highlight how much more efficient and cost-beneficial the new system is. Less per mile by over half, less operating costs by $90 million, $14 million more projected earnings in fares, and that's just for the Norfolk line. I guess depending on how many NIMBYs there are in Virginia Beach this type of propoganda could be successful (i think we've come a lot longer in 8+ years) but with the feds and state chipping in some much money (what, nearly 2/3s the project?), and not having a sales tax increase to pay for the project....where's the problem? Moron

Also, if I am not mistaken the original plan for for a heavier rail system, like the metro in DC; this would have cost substantially more and so really he was comparing an apple with an orange.

[scm]

Interesting how he constructs this red herring of "taxpayer subsidized Developer handouts". If anything, LRT is ANTI-developer, since it will encourage infill and decrease sprawl. A profit maximizing developer would much rather go to green fields like Pungo than to do infill. If he really hates "taxpayer subsidized Developer handouts", then he'd better aim that pop gun of his at the SE Parkway.

Which brings me to a thought -- stopped for lunch in VB this week, and saw a zoning change request outside the restaurant -- required a variance for a lowered number of parking spaces. What if we used a combination of TIFs and payments in lieu of parking spaces to fund part of the capital costs of extending LRT to the beach? I know the TC taxing zone has paid for several things there, like the garages. Why couldn't it be tapped to pay for a TC station? If we did a TIF overlay along the NS line, then as TOD naturally occurs along the line, the increased taxes could help retire the debt. And render this "developer" red herring null and void -- effectively, LRT would partially pay for itself.

[Henry_Ryto]

Interesting how he constructs this red herring of "taxpayer subsidized Developer handouts". If anything, LRT is ANTI-developer, since it will encourage infill and decrease sprawl. A profit maximizing developer would much rather go to green fields like Pungo than to do infill. If he really hates "taxpayer subsidized Developer handouts", then he'd better aim that pop gun of his at the SE Parkway.

Which brings me to a thought -- stopped for lunch in VB this week, and saw a zoning change request outside the restaurant -- required a variance for a lowered number of parking spaces. What if we used a combination of TIFs and payments in lieu of parking spaces to fund part of the capital costs of extending LRT to the beach? I know the TC taxing zone has paid for several things there, like the garages. Why couldn't it be tapped to pay for a TC station? If we did a TIF overlay along the NS line, then as TOD naturally occurs along the line, the increased taxes could help retire the debt. And render this "developer" red herring null and void -- effectively, LRT would partially pay for itself.

You could...but you'd end up exceding the reccomended maximum of property in TIFs. Since the local debt portion will be only about $60 million, I don't see local debt being a real problem. With 20 year bonds, that's about $3 million per year.

[Henry_Ryto]

Here we go Henry. I thought the loyal opposition had been awfully quiet lately. Must've been the holidays.

Light Rail, another developers boondoggle

The misinformation in this piece is just mindboggling.

On Sunday afternoon I e-mailed to Virginia News Source a reply to Reid Greenmun's piece. Vdogg was one of those on the blind copy.

Let's see if VNS has the decency to publish it - unedited.

[vdogg]

On Sunday afternoon I e-mailed to Virginia News Source a reply to Reid Greenmun's piece. Vdogg was one of those on the blind copy.

Let's see if VNS has the decency to publish it - unedited.

That's a great response though I have a feeling that the very last line might not make it to publication. It'll be interesting to see how he responds however. The VNS obviously has an agenda to push, I don't think i've ever seen an opposing viewpoint published there. It'll be real interesting to see if they print your letter at all.

[Henry_Ryto]

That's a great response though I have a feeling that the very last line might not make it to publication. It'll be interesting to see how he responds however. The VNS obviously has an agenda to push, I don't think i've ever seen an opposing viewpoint published there. It'll be real interesting to see if they print your letter at all.

vdogg, it's on there this morning, though the paragraphs are respaced. As for the last line, I changed the verb from the common saying to get it through.

Yes, VNS has a political agenda to push. However, I've known Editor Morris Rowe for nearly 8 years now, so I got it in. If anyone else wants to write, e-mail Moe at [email protected]

[vdogg]

Tide already rolling in Beach plans

Now, city planners are incorporating rail service - light rail- into plans to bring people east from Town Center, downtown Norfolk and beyond. And not just for sun, but for food, shopping and fun.

In every scenario, a light-rail system, built along the Norfolk Southern corridor between Virginia Beach Boulevard and Interstate 264, would bring them in.

To a degree that may not be publicly appreciated, the vision shows up in new city plans and in proposals to connect the convention center and the Dome site. Light rail is envisioned as a smart alternative between offices, shopping centers and its sandy beaches.

Wow, this is really starting to gain some momentum.

[Henry_Ryto]

Tide already rolling in Beach plans

Wow, this is really starting to gain some momentum.

It's The Perfect Storm brewing:

1. Norfolk - wants VB in yesterday to help it's case for TEA-21 funds to cover Operations & Maintenance.

2. VB Oceanfront businesses - traditionally opposed to LRT, but want the Resort Area - Town Center connection.

3. Developers - the same people have always wanted to do TOD in VB.

Does City Council act in March? They'll certainly wait until after the transit public meetings, but almost certainly won't act during the Budget process (April & first half of May). If not March, we'll be waiting until at least June.

[mistermetaj]

Now, city planners are incorporating rail service - light rail- into plans to bring people east from Town Center, downtown Norfolk and beyond. And not just for sun, but for food, shopping and fun.

Maybe I'm reading too far into it, but is the part in bold referencing a regional plan by any chance? I know there have been rumbles about newport news and their lightrail a while back. But wouldn't that mean lightrail in the third crossing?

Edited January 3, 2008 by mistermetaj

[Henry_Ryto]

Maybe I'm reading too far into it, but is the part in bold referencing a regional plan by any chance? I know there have been rumbles about newport news and their lightrail a while back. But wouldn't that mean lightrail in the third crossing?

1. Portsmouth has asked for LRT accomodations in the planned second Midtown Tunnel tube.

2. Newport News is looking at a CNU-Mary Immaculate alignment.

Yes, that would mean eventually going through The Third Crossing.

[vdogg]

Light Rail, a former mayors view

A view through the former mayors eyes about mistakes made in the past that could've led us to have a light rail system in place today.

[Alpine757]

It's pretty amusing to me that the innkeepers were that worried about their guests leaving the area to go to waterside or the rest of dt norfolk...so they lose a few people who want to experience more then the resort area for maybe a night or 2...

I'd probably go down to the oceanfront on friday & saturday nights a heck of a lot more if there was an alternate means to the $40 cab fare each direction from where I live in kempsville, and I'm sure plenty of others share that thought process. I think with a rail connection to it, it would draw in more people then it would lose, even back then...just my thoughts though.

[Henry_Ryto]

Is light rails next stop Va. Beach

The plot thickens!

You better believe I will show up at every single one of these meetings too.

I'm now told that the Town Hall meetings on mass transit for Virginia Beach will be after the Budget process is over. (The Budget will be passed in mid-May.)

It's still coming, just slower than expected.

[Henry_Ryto]

This afternoon the TDCHR named me the new Chairman of HRT's User Citizen Advisory Committee (UCAC). While I knew a change was probably brewing and that I had the support of HRT Staff, this afternoon's changing of the guard caught me by surprise. I was sitting in the room for the TDCHR meeting but nobody told me I was about to be named UCAC Chairman.

Not only is it an honor and obligation, but an opportunity. Holding the reins at the UCAC when Virginia Beach is at a transit treshhold could allow me to play a key role in building a transit system for Virginia Beach.

[vdogg]

This afternoon the TDCHR named me the new Chairman of HRT's User Citizen Advisory Committee (UCAC). While I knew a change was probably brewing and that I had the support of HRT Staff, this afternoon's changing of the guard caught me by surprise. I was sitting in the room for the TDCHR meeting but nobody told me I was about to be named UCAC Chairman.

Not only is it an honor and obligation, but an opportunity. Holding the reins at the UCAC when Virginia Beach is at a transit treshhold could allow me to play a key role in building a transit system for Virginia Beach.

Congratulations Henry. I feel good knowing that you'll have a part in controlling the agenda.

[urbanvb]

Great news, Henry. Many congrats!

[rusthebuss]

Good to see a pro light rail person is moving up in the ranks. We need to have another get together guys!