CANCELED: Divinity Development

[masons_dad1]

It's popping up for me, but it does seem to be taking a while for it to happen. I'll keep an eye on it and see if anyone else is having problems with it.

It had a problem at first but it's probably a bandwidth issue... large pics tend to do that. Anyway I think it's a nice modern building that would blend well with Fayetteville's architecture. If it was a smooth glass building or some silver cylendar shape then I would protest. It has similar features of the Fayetteville Library and the Parking Deck mixed in.

[strmchsr77]

Thanks guys, It just took longer than usual. What a great looking building. Very impressive.

[DickSonstreetDFW]

Thanks guys, It just took longer than usual. What a great looking building. Very impressive.

I don't like it.

It simply doesn't fit in the rest of Fayetteville. It looks like it belongs in Miami or Dallas or something.

Some may disagree, but I don't find that to be a good thing.

I don't find any time-tested elements in that rendering and it will look very dated within a decade or so.

Look at the bottom floor. It absolutely doesn't add anything to the street level pedestrian environment.

I'd prefer at least some windows, or the look of stome storefronts to add to the continuity of the Dickson Street environment. This thing looks like pedestrians will be walking past a couple of blocks of brick wall, with a towering building above.

I hate it.

[strmchsr77]

I don't like it.

It simply doesn't fit in the rest of Fayetteville. It looks like it belongs in Miami or Dallas or something.

Some may disagree, but I don't find that to be a good thing.

I don't find any time-tested elements in that rendering and it will look very dated within a decade or so.

Look at the bottom floor. It absolutely doesn't add anything to the street level pedestrian environment.

I'd prefer at least some windows, or the look of stome storefronts to add to the continuity of the Dickson Street environment. This thing looks like pedestrians will be walking past a couple of blocks of brick wall, with a towering building above.

I hate it.

I see your point, but I don't think that all builings in the downtown area have to look like Rob Sharp (I think that is the architects name that did the Legacy and Mountain Inn project) designed them. Most cities have varying building styles in their skylines. Maybe this more modern style should be saved for north Fayetteville instead of on Dickson. I just hope that these projects get off the ground, it will mean a lot of money for businesses in that area.

[OnDickson]

I don't like it.

It simply doesn't fit in the rest of Fayetteville. It looks like it belongs in Miami or Dallas or something.

Some may disagree, but I don't find that to be a good thing.

I don't find any time-tested elements in that rendering and it will look very dated within a decade or so.

Look at the bottom floor. It absolutely doesn't add anything to the street level pedestrian environment.

I'd prefer at least some windows, or the look of stome storefronts to add to the continuity of the Dickson Street environment. This thing looks like pedestrians will be walking past a couple of blocks of brick wall, with a towering building above.

I hate it.

I have to agree with you, DFW. I was most disappointed when I saw the picture in the paper yesterday--not what I expected from the Barber Group. I guess I had expected/hoped for something more like the '3 Sisters Building' look on the street level. To me, it just doesn't 'fit' with anything that is Dickson Street. That doesn't mean I don't think it's a nice development--probably well suited for a lot of urban areas, but just not the right fit for the heart of Dickson, IMHO.

I did think that it was interesting in the editorial yesterday the author said something to the effect of 'didn't we just tear that building down?' (making reference to it's obvious sturctural similarity to the old Mountain Building--and we all know how well that one aged. It is kind of alarming to note some of the similiarities).

Oh well, doesn't matter much what I think as there is a backhoe up there right now as I type, razing one of the old houses on the property. Looks like they are banking on the City Council not making a definite decision on building heights by May 13.

[DickSonstreetDFW]

I have to agree with you, DFW. I was most disappointed when I saw the picture in the paper yesterday--not what I expected from the Barber Group. I guess I had expected/hoped for something more like the '3 Sisters Building' look on the street level. To me, it just doesn't 'fit' with anything that is Dickson Street. That doesn't mean I don't think it's a nice development--probably well suited for a lot of urban areas, but just not the right fit for the heart of Dickson, IMHO.

I did think that it was interesting in the editorial yesterday the author said something to the effect of 'didn't we just tear that building down?' (making reference to it's obvious sturctural similarity to the old Mountain Building--and we all know how well that one aged. It is kind of alarming to note some of the similiarities).

Oh well, doesn't matter much what I think as there is a backhoe up there right now as I type, razing one of the old houses on the property. Looks like they are banking on the City Council not making a definite decision on building heights by May 13.

I wonder to what degree the city can influence the design of this project.

I know in the past they have invoked vague "architectural articulation" verbage in forcing developers to redesign storefronts, etc.

I hope some revisions are made, primarily at street level. It shouldn't create a wall for the pedestrian. A link between downtown and Dickson should have actvitiy, or the appearance thereof, for the pedestrian.

I'm disappointed.

[Mith242]

I guess overall I feel the same way that some of you feel. I don't think it's a bad looking building really but as I said before it wasn't what I was expecting and I don't think it fits well into Dickson St. It does have a more modern look like the Library and maybe it would look better over there. I also agree that I think the biggest improvement they could make would be to change the street level part of the building. If they did that I think I'd be a lot happier with it. I hadn't realized that some of those houses nearby were also part of that plot of land. It's too bad, I was thinking there were a couple of nice older homes near that area. Sounds like at least one of them is going away if not both. I wish moving them were more feasible. I do think that Block St needs to change and be a better connector between Dickson and the Square. But I do hate the idea of losing some of those older buildings.

[masons_dad1]

Okay I got a render of this development from the paper today. There's an editorial about this development and Dickson St in general in today's Arkansas Democrat Gazette . He didn't really slam it but did mention that maybe people might want to think more about what they want Dickson St to be before all these changes occur. I admit this design doesn't fit in with the rest of the architecture like I thought it would. I do find the design interesting, I'm sure not everyone will agree. But as I said my only concern is that it doesn't seem to fit in as well as I thought it might.

There probably wouldn't be as many complaints if this picture was in color. The street level wouldn't be so bad if it had the same color and texture as the Three Sisters Building or the new Legacy Building.

I found a render of a similar building that I think people would agree would fit nicely on Dickson.

A close-up of the street level actually looks like a Dickson Street building.

Or better yet... a street level render of a building that resembles the actual street level of this proposed development. Note the columns along the street level of the building. The actual propsed building has these columns at street level if you look close. Who would be bothered walking alongside this building?

I know these aren't renders of the actual proposed development but they are similar enough to show the difference a color render makes at getting people's approval.

[Mith242]

Are those renderings from the same company, just out of curiosity? I do think something like that style would be a better fit on Dickson. Thanks for the renderings masons_dad1.

[masons_dad1]

Are those renderings from the same company, just out of curiosity? I do think something like that style would be a better fit on Dickson. Thanks for the renderings masons_dad1.

No they're not from the same company... just something I found googling. But they are the same style and so similar they could be the same building. I bet it's the color of the building that makes you think it would better fit on Dickson Street, which goes back to the fact that if the rendering you posted had been in color many would've said they thought it would fit well on Dickson Street. For all we know the renderings I posted would be exactly what this proposed building would look like on Dickson Street.

[OnDickson]

Down comes the old Something Urban building this morning--they sure aren't wasting any time clearing that land!

My real concern with this project is the issue of whether or not it will help to create/enhance the pedestrian friendly environment that is the goal of the entire downtown master plan. That lot is a very vital link from Dickson Street to the entire Downtown area and I think great care needs to be taken to design a structure that helps achieve this goal. The goal of tying these to areas together (Dickson and the Square) predates the Downtown Master Plan, Fay Downtown Partners and even the now defunct DDEP. Future plans call for a Block Street redesign to match the design of Dickson Street (curbs, sidewalks, landscaping, etc). I just think it is very important that any structure on this lot needs to fit in with this overall goal rather than to act as a barrier of any kind (as the picture from the NWA times seems to do, IMHO). I do think a structure similar to the pix that you posted Masons might help to achieve that better and perhaps I should reserve judgement until we can see more detailed pix of the proposed Divinity Structure.

[itk]

I agree with those that say that this might not fit in the area. If that illustration is what it will look like, I can't imagine a better place for something like that to not fit in. The entrance to Dickson St from College, with the United Methodist and etc. is just as important to the look and feel of Dickson St as the rest of it IMO. It seems odd.

[DickSonstreetDFW]

No they're not from the same company... just something I found googling. But they are the same style and so similar they could be the same building. I bet it's the color of the building that makes you think it would better fit on Dickson Street, which goes back to the fact that if the rendering you posted had been in color many would've said they thought it would fit well on Dickson Street. For all we know the renderings I posted would be exactly what this proposed building would look like on Dickson Street.

For me, the color of it has nothing to do with me not liking the building. By that rationale, we could bring Hillcrest Towers into 2006 with a couple of coats of fresh paint.

A box is a box is a box. Once the new wears off, its an out-of-date looking box.

One thing that is better about the rendering you posted is that it appears to have actual storefronts or the appearance thereof, while the Divinity rendering looks like the two street level walls have no doors or windows. Even if its all just glass, it still creates a wall of sorts.

I could stomach the top two thirds of the Divinity rendering if the bottom third was better oriented to the local streetscape.

Hopefully we'll see something more detailed soon.

I agree with those that say that this might not fit in the area. If that illustration is what it will look like, I can't imagine a better place for something like that to not fit in. The entrance to Dickson St from College, with the United Methodist and etc. is just as important to the look and feel of Dickson St as the rest of it IMO. It seems odd.

Its as if they sought to reflect the architecture of the UA campus.

All of the bad architecture.

[Mith242]

I could stomach the top two thirds of the Divinity rendering if the bottom third was better oriented to the local streetscape.

I think that's pretty close to how I feel. I'm not quite so concerned about the top part of the building as to the bottom. I do think the top could be improved as well to fit in but it's the bottom part that really needs to be worked on and that needs to feel more pedestrian fiendly and blend in with the rest of Dickson.

[masons_dad1]

For me, the color of it has nothing to do with me not liking the building. By that rationale, we could bring Hillcrest Towers into 2006 with a couple of coats of fresh paint.

A box is a box is a box. Once the new wears off, its an out-of-date looking box.

One thing that is better about the rendering you posted is that it appears to have actual storefronts or the appearance thereof, while the Divinity rendering looks like the two street level walls have no doors or windows. Even if its all just glass, it still creates a wall of sorts.

I could stomach the top two thirds of the Divinity rendering if the bottom third was better oriented to the local streetscape.

Hopefully we'll see something more detailed soon.

Its as if they sought to reflect the architecture of the UA campus.

All of the bad architecture.

I still think it's just a bad rendering of what may be a nice building. There are columns at the base of the building at street level and maybe the artist was just too lazy to draw in windows or possible storefronts. Color and texture plays a major role in Dickson Street aesthetics... just look at the Three Sisters Building and the Hog Haus Brewery.

[DickSonstreetDFW]

I still think it's just a bad rendering of what may be a nice building. There are columns at the base of the building at street level and maybe the artist was just too lazy to draw in windows or possible storefronts. Color and texture plays a major role in Dickson Street aesthetics... just look at the Three Sisters Building and the Hog Haus Brewery.

True. Hope to see a more detailed rendering.

Then hope to see a revised proposal after the city of Fayetteville has a chance to review and smash it to pieces.

[Mith242]

True. Hope to see a more detailed rendering.

Then hope to see a revised proposal after the city of Fayetteville has a chance to review and smash it to pieces.

Very true, you know that's going to happen. Who knows after the city is through with it, it might end up being altered quite a bit to please the city by the time it's all said and done.

[masons_dad1]

True. Hope to see a more detailed rendering.

Then hope to see a revised proposal after the city of Fayetteville has a chance to review and smash it to pieces.

LOL... maybe if they drew in a few high tension power lines the city would approve it.

[Mith242]

LOL... maybe if they drew in a few high tension power lines the city would approve it.

I think the Lofts at Underwood Plaza bringing the powerlines up probably helped them out in being approved. But the Divinity Building won't have any big powerlines next to it so I guess they'll have to find some other argument. Bringing back up what I mentioned earlier about the one member of the council serving her term out, I wonder what differences the city might have in thinking when a few more people have cycled through.

[strmchsr77]

The project was featured on the front page of the Times today. It looks like the PC subcommittee forward it to the Full PC with a recommendation for denial. Once again the main topic is the height. The Barber Group seems to have followed all design standards for a commercial project, they even have the tallest part of the building sitting back off of Dickson. This was a big concern for the Underwood Loft development and they had to make changes to get the project approved.

Anyway, I don't think that height should be an issue. It is 15 stories not 40! There are many other buildings in the downtown area that are around this height. The Radisson Hotel is 15, Hillcrest Towers is 12, the Mountain Inn project will be 18 when it is completed. Maybe the design does not fit in that well with surrounding buildings. Still a project like this will bring in tons of money for the area.

[DickSonstreetDFW]

The project was featured on the front page of the Times today. It looks like the PC subcommittee forward it to the Full PC with a recommendation for denial. Once again the main topic is the height. The Barber Group seems to have followed all design standards for a commercial project, they even have the tallest part of the building sitting back off of Dickson. This was a big concern for the Underwood Loft development and they had to make changes to get the project approved.

Anyway, I don't think that height should be an issue. It is 15 stories not 40! There are many other buildings in the downtown area that are around this height. The Radisson Hotel is 15, Hillcrest Towers is 12, the Mountain Inn project will be 18 when it is completed. Maybe the design does not fit in that well with surrounding buildings. Still a project like this will bring in tons of money for the area.

I agree that there is a need for a luxury hotel and it will be a boon to the city tourism tax.

When I think about buildings in Fayetteville and try to understand the city height restrictions, I compare them to Old Main. Its been the dominant feature of the landscape for 120 years and I believe in the minds of many of the planning commision that it should remain that way.

I also think that maybe if this building had been planned as more of a traditional classic type of structure which would compliment and enhance the other architecturally prominent projects around town that the height wouldn't have been as much of an issue.

The height restriction may have been designed as a pre-planned excuse, and another way to deny large scale projects which don't suit those who hope to shape the city scape.

I'm personally not that disappointed that this isn't going through as designed.

[DickSonstreetDFW]

Some quotes from the NWA TIMES article, which reinforce the concerns expressed here about the lack of connection to the pedestrian environment:

"Curb cuts, enough "stacking" distance for cars at the hotel lobby, overall scale, and reflective materials were concerns for Clark and Commissioner Jill Anthes. Anthes was concerned with "the long expanse of blank wall" on the Church Avenue side of the proposed building and the look of the "up front and center" parking deck."

"Commissioner Audy Lack also said he had problems with the large blank wall and with the scale of it to pedestrians passing by. Lack did not vote with Anthes and Clark. He said it was important that it be forwarded but that he did not feel compatibility was a height issue."

If only the Barber Group would read more UP.

[strmchsr77]

I also think that maybe if this building had been planned as more of a traditional classic type of structure which would compliment and enhance the other architecturally prominent projects around town that the height wouldn't have been as much of an issue.

I completely agree that a more traditional looking building would be much better suited for the area. The Legacy building, the mountain inn project, and Underwood all seem to be much better suited to the area design wise.

Like I have said before, I do like the modern style of this building. I think that it would look great in North Fayetteville along Joyce or the Fullbright express way. I guess we will just have to wait and see what Barber comes back with.

[Mith242]

Yeah the color picture in the paper didn't impress me anymore than the previous b&w pic. I'll try to post a color copy of the pic a little later today. I don't think there would be as many problems if it were closer to the downtown core. But I just think many city officials aren't going to be too happy with a building that size on Dickson. Maybe if it were even a little bit further off Dickson, the city might be a little more agreeable. But I still think they lower part of the building just seems a bit too modern looking for Dickson St. I think if they had designed the lower part of the building to look more similar to just about any other new development we have going on (Legacy, Renaissance, Underwood Lofts) it would fit in better. But at least they're talking about it and maybe the Barber Group can work with the city and try to get something done. It sounds like the Barber group is going to push the economic advantages a boutique hotel like this will have on the city.

[Mith242]

Here's a color rendering that I promised earlier. Of course those of you that have access to the Northwest Arkansas Times have probably already seen this.