CANCELED: Divinity Development

[skirby]

If Fayetteville doesn't want it let them build it in Little Rock. It would look nice across 3rd Street from the Acxiom Building where the parking lot is.

[Mith242]

If Fayetteville doesn't want it let them build it in Little Rock. It would look nice across 3rd Street from the Acxiom Building where the parking lot is.

Yeah there are certainly people in Fayetteville who are going to fight this. Looks like we've started another page on this topic. For everyone who hasn't seen it yet I posted some renderings on the Divinity project and a Barber Group ad. I also posted an e-mail response from the Barber Group that I got discussing details about the Divininty project that I think some of you will find interesting. It's on the previous page. I didn't say this earlier but seeing this new rendering makes me more interested in the project. I certainly like the look of it better now that I've gotten a better look at it. But I can still some some people's arguments about it not fitting into Dickson St.

[DickSonstreetDFW]

Ah, I actually got a response back form the e-mail I had sent to the Barber Group about their Divinity Development. They even sent me a pic that the newspaper certainly didn't do justice to. Here's the pic and I'll post the e-mail too in a little bit.

That's a bit easier on the eyes.

[Mith242]

I'll certainly agree with you there. Although I think it's still rather modern looking and that won't appeal to everyone's taste. Especially considering the area of the city we're talking about. I e-mailed them back discussing the project a little more and mentioned I'd be more than happy to get any more renderings of this project or others that I could post on here. I'm hoping they'll see it almost as some sort of advertisement and let us see some other nice renderings of some of their developments. The orginal is rather large. I can post an even larger version if someone really wants to see some detail.

[itk]

Thanks Mith242 for the info and pic. Very interesting. I wonder how in the world it got printed as yellow to begin with... this I would agree is much better looking imo.

[Mith242]

Thanks Mith242 for the info and pic. Very interesting. I wonder how in the world it got printed as yellow to begin with... this I would agree is much better looking imo.

The e-mail response I got from them mentioned the newsprint isn't the best way to see renderings, which is certainly true in this case. Maybe I need to move that up to this page as well so it's not overlooked.

[DickSonstreetDFW]

I'll certainly agree with you there. Although I think it's still rather modern looking and that won't appeal to everyone's taste. Especially considering the area of the city we're talking about. I e-mailed them back discussing the project a little more and mentioned I'd be more than happy to get any more renderings of this project or others that I could post on here. I'm hoping they'll see it almost as some sort of advertisement and let us see some other nice renderings of some of their developments. The orginal is rather large. I can post an even larger version if someone really wants to see some detail.

I'm intrigued by the mention of the different materials, particularly the copper columns.

I think from this angle I understand the comments about "reflective glass" in the newspaper article.

I'm not a big fan of the "glass shard" look.

Still, this rendering is much better and more in line with Barber Group's other designs. A few tweaks and I bet this will be approved.

[Mith242]

Here's the e-mail I got back from the Barber Group. It has some more detailed info that some of you might find interesting.

Rod,

Thank you for your email concerning the Divinity Hotel. I apologize for the delay in responding. I may give you more information than you addressed in your email, but I would like to hit as many points as I can on the first attempt.

Regarding the color: I

[DickSonstreetDFW]

Just moving this up so it's a little more visible and not overlooked.

Yeah I thought the copper columns sounding very interesting as well. I do hope this does get approved in some fashion. I think a development like this could really compliment the city. I'm sure not everyone will agree. But maybe the city officials will see the economic benefits to the city and be not so harsh about it.

Well, the property has already been altered.

With the accompanying note, the land can't be developed to a degree that makes economic sense and be much less than what they are proposing. Those are the facts.

I think I mentioned earlier that I think a lot of the planning restrictions are just so the city can evaluate each project singularly. If it "technically" doesn't fit in the city's plan, or they can make a case that would stand up in court, that is enough leverage to allow the city to influence and guide development more to their liking.

I think if Barber Group added a little more diversity in materials and changed the window treatment to a tint rather than a mirror-look (as it appears in the rendering) that this will sail through.

On the other hand, I don't know if any developer has really challenged the city on any of their restrictions.

Barber Group is weighty enough that they could. That, and the fact that the city appears to be trying to delay this project and implement "new" restrictions in the interim might press the issue.

With a 70 million dollar development in limbo, they might have no choice if the project is unreasonably delayed.

[masons_dad1]

^^

See I told ya'll it's all about color. The email mentions taupe brick and copper columns and everybody says hmmm. Nevermind the fact that there's more glass on that one building than in all of Fayetteville.

[Mith242]

Yeah, I do like the design although as I said before I can understand some concerns about it. I probably wouldn't have put in quite that much glass for something on Dickson. But I think some architects use a lot of reflective glass to reflect the nearby buildings. I guess it's supposed to make people feel that it will fit more into the area. There's going to be some people who won't like this development no matter what here in the city. I recently heard some complaints by one resident who thinks the city should be left exactly the way it is now. But I think overall the biggest concern for people is the location it's going in. If this was in another area of the city I doubt we'd hear as many people object to this.

[mcheiss]

That's a bit easier on the eyes.

I certainly wish Rogers was getting this in their downtown, this looks amazing!! Fayetteville should feel lucky, it's starting to look like a big city!!

[masons_dad1]

I certainly wish Rogers was getting this in their downtown, this looks amazing!! Fayetteville should feel lucky, it's starting to look like a big city!!

Maybe the cities can split it... let Fayetteville have the bottom half and Rogers gets the top half. That should please both cities. But most likely this would go into Pinnacle Hills... it is the new downtown Rogers. The Pinnacle Group already has their sights set on a pair of 20+ story all-glass mixed-use towers.

[CellarDoor135]

Maybe the cities can split it... let Fayetteville have the bottom half and Rogers gets the top half. That should please both cities. But most likely this would go into Pinnacle Hills... it is the new downtown Rogers. The Pinnacle Group already has their sights set on a pair of 20+ story all-glass mixed-use towers.

Pinnacle has long been a development filled with empty promises on large urban high rises. I wouldn't get that excited until you see some real construction. Also, Pinnacle will never be a "downtown". Pinnacle is a development.

[masons_dad1]

Pinnacle has long been a development filled with empty promises on large urban high rises. I wouldn't get that excited until you see some real construction. Also, Pinnacle will never be a "downtown". Pinnacle is a development.

Where'd you come up with that "empty promises"? Have you seen how much work has been done non-stop over the past few years? It's the biggest development in NWA with 18 current projects totalling a billion dollars. Pinnacle Hills has towers popping up everywhere. They're still waiting for more vendors to move to NWA before building the the highrise towers. How is it not becoming the new downtown? There's already more businesses located in Pinnacle Hills than in downtown Rogers. There will be more retail, office space and residential space than downtown Rogers. When completed there will be 10,000 employees working in Pinnacle Hills which is by far more than in downtown Rogers. There will be more square footage than downtown Rogers and there will be more multi-level floors than in downtown Rogers. What more would it take to be downtown?

[tim2462]

Where'd you come up with that "empty promises"? Have you seen how much work has been done non-stop over the past few years? It's the biggest development in NWA with 18 current projects totalling a billion dollars. Pinnacle Hills has towers popping up everywhere. They're still waiting for more vendors to move to NWA before building the the highrise towers. How is it not becoming the new downtown? There's already more businesses located in Pinnacle Hills than in downtown Rogers. There will be more retail, office space and residential space than downtown Rogers. When completed there will be 10,000 employees working in Pinnacle Hills which is by far more than in downtown Rogers. There will be more square footage than downtown Rogers and there will be more multi-level floors than in downtown Rogers. What more would it take to be downtown?

You're right. It is going to be the new downtown. Developments are what make a downtown.

This is just on a bigger scale.

[Aporkalypse]

You're right. It is going to be the new downtown. Developments are what make a downtown.

This is just on a bigger scale.

You can't build a downtown where there is none. Downtown NWA will always be Dickson and the Square, a few high rises can't change that.

[masons_dad1]

You can't build a downtown where there is none. Downtown NWA will always be Dickson and the Square, a few high rises can't change that.

Downtown Rogers isn't downtown Fayetteville and vice versa. The big difference is there is a lot of development happening in downtown Fayetteville and there's absolutely nothing happening in downtown Rogers... not even a pebble has been turned over. It's all happening in Pinnacle Hills. If NWA would unite then I could see downtown Fayetteville being "The Downtown", but Dickson Street is just a street in downtown Fayetteville.

At best what we currently know as downtown Rogers will just become "Historic Mainstreet" and will lose it's downtown designation.

[DickSonstreetDFW]

You can't build a downtown where there is none. Downtown NWA will always be Dickson and the Square, a few high rises can't change that.

Thank you.

I was going to say I don't agree.

Sometimes, developments make office parks.

I work in NW Plano and there are plenty of buildings in and around Legacy Town Center which would be by far the biggest SF in NWA.

Nobody mistakes this for anything resembling a downtown, despite the best efforts of Karahan, Inc.

Yes, downtown Fayetteville is more urban than Plano.

[masons_dad1]

Thank you.

I was going to say I don't agree.

Sometimes, developments make office parks.

I work in NW Plano and there are plenty of buildings in and around Legacy Town Center which would be by far the biggest SF in NWA.

Nobody mistakes this for anything resembling a downtown, despite the best efforts of Karahan, Inc.

Yes, downtown Fayetteville is more urban than Plano.

I repeat...

"How is it [Pinnacle Hills] not becoming the new downtown [Rogers, not Fayetteville]? There's already more businesses located in Pinnacle Hills than in downtown Rogers. There will be more retail, office space and residential space than downtown Rogers. When completed there will be 10,000 employees working in Pinnacle Hills which is by far more than in downtown Rogers. There will be more square footage than downtown Rogers and there will be more multi-level floors than in downtown Rogers. What more would it take to be downtown?

Nowhere in the Dallas metro has more office space square-footage and highrise floors than in downtown Dallas. That's what makes it downtown. Plano's downtown is considered either a "main street" or a "historic downtown". When someone in Plano says "I'm going downtown" they really mean downtown Dallas.

[OnDickson]

but Dickson Street is just a street in downtown Fayetteville

Yeah, and Wal-Mart is just a retailer in Bentonville.

Sorry, couldn't resist.

[Aporkalypse]

Functionally, yes it will have most of the office and retail space for a few years.

The same can be said for most of the suburbs where I live which have small-town downtowns.

No one will confuse it for a downtown. It likely will just be another development along I-540 when all is done.

And to your point, nobody confuses Legacy Town Center for "Downtown Plano", either, although there is more office space in any one bulding here than there is in all of downtown Plano.

One is pedestrian oriented and authentic.

The other is a suburban office park mixed with retail and without exception, requires one to own a car.

Agreed. The same could be said about the tech corridor vs downtown Richardson which really has some similarites to Rogers/B-ville.

You can't build a downtown de novo unless you plan the community completely like Brasilia or something. High rises aren't equivalent with "downtown". The closest thing to a denovo downtown I've seen is Southlake Town Square and there isn't a mid-rise building in the vicinity.

[masons_dad1]

Functionally, yes it will have most of the office and retail space for a few years.

The same can be said for most of the suburbs where I live which have small-town downtowns.

No one will confuse it for a downtown. It likely will just be another development along I-540 when all is done.

And to your point, nobody confuses Legacy Town Center for "Downtown Plano", either, although there is more office space in any one bulding here than there is in all of downtown Plano.

One is pedestrian oriented and authentic.

The other is a suburban office park mixed with retail and without exception, requires one to own a car.

I'm not knocking Legacy in any way, shape or form by saying this, but the Pinnacle Hills development is 750 acres in size including all the subdivisions and luxury apartment communities surrounding it. That's like 5 times the size of Legacy. And aside from all the big headquarters and major technology companies Pinnacle Hills will have hundreds of companies located there and hundreds of retail and dining options. It would be great if Pinnacle Hills developed into another Legacy, albeit on a much bigger scale.

[DickSonstreetDFW]

^^I think "downtown" is defined, and I don't know if there will ever be a "new downtown" anywhere there is an existing "downtown".

Intially, it was a directive term. More apt now would be to say "city center", or "central business district."

Southlake TC counts b/c it has no other "downtown" to point to.

Rogers does, Bentonville does, even Springdale does a little bit.

Even if "downtown" gradually becomes a synonym for "historic commercial district", its still "downtown" and its meaning is pretty solid.

[DickSonstreetDFW]

I'm not knocking Legacy in any way, shape or form by saying this, but the Pinnacle Hills development is 750 acres in size including all the subdivisions and luxury apartment communities surrounding it. That's like 5 times the size of Legacy. And aside from all the big headquarters and major technology companies Pinnacle Hills will have hundreds of companies located there and hundreds of retail and dining options. It would be great if Pinnacle Hills developed into another Legacy, albeit on a much bigger scale.

Yes, that would be impressive.

But it still wouldn't be "downtown".

BTW, Legacy is actually 3 1/2 times the size of Pinnacle Hills. I don't know where you got your numbers, but Legacy comprises over 2600 acres of master planned community. It dwarfs Pinnacle Hills.

http://www.legacyinplano.com/