CANCELED: Divinity Development

[Mith242]

Speaking of the height restrictions. I heard that some developers were trying to get the city to alter their codes a bit and not be so strict so that they can build up a little more since this was mentioned so much at the 2025 meetings. I got the impression in this instance they were referring more to the Square area. But as I said before if a really good development came along I would think they city would be more lenient on their height ordinance.

[Mith242]

Arkansas Business is reporting that the Barber Group paid the Pettus family $5 Mil for the parcels of land on Dickson St. Here's a link to the article.

http://www.arkansasbusiness.com/news/artic...39%7D&aid=43350

[masons_dad1]

Speaking of the height restrictions. I heard that some developers were trying to get the city to alter their codes a bit and not be so strict so that they can build up a little more since this was mentioned so much at the 2025 meetings. I got the impression in this instance they were referring more to the Square area. But as I said before if a really good development came along I would think they city would be more lenient on their height ordinance.

I think there should be certain height restrictions if for no other reason than to not end up with a lot of vacant office or residential space while creating vacancies in other areas of the city.

[masons_dad1]

Arkansas Business is reporting that the Barber Group paid the Pettus family $5 Mil for the parcels of land on Dickson St. Here's a link to the article.

http://www.arkansasbusiness.com/news/artic...39%7D&aid=43350

IMO that's pretty steep at $75 per square-foot. I could see paying that kind of money for an area that's already shown some years of substantial growth, but Fayetteville and most of Northwest Arkansas is still in the early stages of recent growth. I'd hate to see what property will sell for in 5-10 years. Property would end up costing more than any development going on the property which could actually slow down the growth.

[Mith242]

I think there should be certain height restrictions if for no other reason than to not end up with a lot of vacant office or residential space while creating vacancies in other areas of the city.

It probably is a good idea but I think they might be set a bit low at current standards. Especially if we do want to densify and build up a bit. If you set restrictions so low that it doesn't do a lot of good for the developers then you're just going to push them further out away from the center of the city.

IMO that's pretty steep at $75 per square-foot. I could see paying that kind of money for an area that's already shown some years of substantial growth, but Fayetteville and most of Northwest Arkansas is still in the early stages of recent growth. I'd hate to see what property will sell for in 5-10 years. Property would end up costing more than any development going on the property which could actually slow down the growth.

Yeah to be honest I thought that it sounded cheap for the area. Granted we're not talking about a huge parcel of land but it's on the corner of Dickson and Block. Block being the street to get to the Square from Dickson St.

[DickSonstreetDFW]

It probably is a good idea but I think they might be set a bit low at current standards. Especially if we do want to densify and build up a bit. If you set restrictions so low that it doesn't do a lot of good for the developers then you're just going to push them further out away from the center of the city.

Yeah to be honest I thought that it sounded cheap for the area. Granted we're not talking about a huge parcel of land but it's on the corner of Dickson and Block. Block being the street to get to the Square from Dickson St.

That isn't cheap at all. Of course we are not talking about just land, as there are structures existing that drove the price up as well. Still, $100/ft for land in downtown Dallas isn't uncommon.

At that price, unless the intend to reuse the buildings existing (which I doubt they do) they have no choice but to go up at least 8-10 stories to make this project profitable.

Your argument about the price of the property and the discouragement of inner-core infill as a result is a good one. I'm sure they will use it when they apply for their height restriction variance.

[razorbackfan]

Speaking of the height restrictions. I heard that some developers were trying to get the city to alter their codes a bit and not be so strict so that they can build up a little more since this was mentioned so much at the 2025 meetings. I got the impression in this instance they were referring more to the Square area. But as I said before if a really good development came along I would think they city would be more lenient on their height ordinance.

One of the biggest problems with the development in Fayetteville is the city. I guess I dont' quite understand why there is such a strict height ordinance. In a few years I see more and more developments going north to Rogers where the city hasn't put near the restrictions on development.

[Mith242]

One of the biggest problems with the development in Fayetteville is the city. I guess I dont' quite understand why there is such a strict height ordinance. In a few years I see more and more developments going north to Rogers where the city hasn't put near the restrictions on development.

Right now the height restrictions are only in the downtown area of the city. Part of it is to keep from some buildings 'covering up' and hiding some of our historical buildings. I agree with it in principle, I just think they have things set a little low right now. Although it doesn't sound like it's set in concrete either. I think if a good development came along they would be willing to allow taller buildings. But I guess it's a question of how far would they go.

[OnDickson]

Finally, some more details are starting to emerge about this project. There's some info in the NWA Times today (3/16) with a few details of the proposed 15 story hotel/condo/retail/convention center/parking deck structure to be called The 'Divinity' Building. Apparently, the Barber Group just found out that the new proposed height restrictions mean that there is actually a moratorium on construction of buildings that are 6+ stories along Dickson, at least until May 13th when the city council will address this issue.

Now we're up to 3--the number of projects that are being held up due to the proposed height restrictions: The Divinity Building, Underwood Lofts and the Mountain Inn Project (approved as is, but there's a proposed 2 story addition, making a total of 18 stories). It is interesting to note that 'if the council does not take final action on the project by May 13, projects would be considered under current zoning laws' (i.e. they would all pass). I have serious doubts that the Council could/would pass such a hotly contested issue by their meeting on May 13th--in fact I wouldn't be surprised if this debate eventually makes the hillside ordinance debate pale in comparison. Apparently it would still be possible for the development to proceed as a planned zoning district--even if the proposed height restrictions were to pass, although I'm not sure exactly how that would work. There's going to be some intense debate, but I fully expect that this project (and the other 2 awaiting approval) will pass as-is. I'm not sure the proposed height restrictions took into account the quality and magnitude of projects that would be coming to Dickson in the very near future.

[DickSonstreetDFW]

I'm not sure the proposed height restrictions took into account the quality and magnitude of projects that would be coming to Dickson in the very near future.

Or, they saw it coming and tried to head it off.

I have no problem with an 18 story Renaissance Tower or a 15 story at the corner of Dickson/Block. I love the design of the Renaissance and think it will fit in nicely. I'm sure the Divinity will be designed well and be a nice addition to the street scene. I think the Legacy Building design is wonderful and I'm sure there will be something equally nice for this corner. Plus as a transitionary corner from Dickson to the Square downtown, this corner almost needs a landmark.

My prediction is that all three projects will procede as planned, but the harsher restrictions will come into place after their approval. That doesn't rule out the possibility of granting future variances for specific projects in the future.

I think the city just wants to have a strict code in place to enforce that will allow each project to be rejected or accepted based upon its individual effect on the skyline and on existing views. Passing these height restrictions will allow them to do just that.

[DickSonstreetDFW]

Another thought>

I think the city is very concerned about keeping the "small-town" feel in the downtown-Dickson area.

One way that can be achieved is by trying to steer developers towards what was done at Three Sisters.

Here, the relatively large building is broken up into what makes it look like three or four different storefronts. If it had been built as one large building taking up a half a block, it would have had a much different effect on the overall streetscape.

Rather than put all of their energy behind building height restrictions, the city should consider working with developers to ensure that the overall streetscape from ground level remains somewhat consistent with the feeling of smaller storefronts that now exist. The height restrictions can be loosened if developers are willing to step back their projects gradually from the street, maintaining a more human-scale from street level.

The proposed project at Underwood Plaza seems to do this very well.

[Mith242]

I agree, I think there's a good chance these already mentioned projects will end up being able to go ahead. Even if the council agrees on this building height restrictions I still get the impression that they could still get the okay. Although I guess you never know when the city council might have some sort of problem with any of these developments. Overall I agree with these building ordinances but I do hope they don't go overboard with them and make it way too restrictive. I also wouldn't mind seeing some sort of transition zone from Dickson towards to center of the downtown area with some taller buildings. But I do wonder if the 15 story on this Divinity Building might really be pushing it. The Lofts at Underwood Plaza aren't pushing it too far. I wonder if the Barber Group might have to see if they can find some more land a little closer to the downtown area for a 15 story building. I'm still thinking about the views I could get from the top of it of Dickson St if it does get built.

[DickSonstreetDFW]

I agree, I think there's a good chance these already mentioned projects will end up being able to go ahead. Even if the council agrees on this building height restrictions I still get the impression that they could still get the okay. Although I guess you never know when the city council might have some sort of problem with any of these developments. Overall I agree with these building ordinances but I do hope they don't go overboard with them and make it way too restrictive. I also wouldn't mind seeing some sort of transition zone from Dickson towards to center of the downtown area with some taller buildings. But I do wonder if the 15 story on this Divinity Building might really be pushing it. The Lofts at Underwood Plaza aren't pushing it too far. I wonder if the Barber Group might have to see if they can find some more land a little closer to the downtown area for a 15 story building. I'm still thinking about the views I could get from the top of it of Dickson St if it does get built.

I agree that 15 stories may be pushing it a bit for Dickson. It may be a case of ask for more than you want, then negotiate back down. I could see 10-12 stories a bit easier.

If this goes through, along with the Underwood development, and (fingers crossed) a redeveloped Hillcrest towers and 18-story Renaissance tower, you have a nice little cluster of good looking midrise structures in downtown/Dickson area.

[DickSonstreetDFW]

Although I guess you never know when the city council might have some sort of problem with any of these developments.

I think thats the point. By passing the building height restriction, they are "reserving the right" to object to any future mid-high rise structures that may overwhelm the skyline or block views of Old Main for instance.

The concerns this will address with "view-shed" aren't that different from the ones they are attempting to address with the hillside ordinance.

[Mith242]

I think thats the point. By passing the building height restriction, they are "reserving the right" to object to any future mid-high rise structures that may overwhelm the skyline or block views of Old Main for instance.

The concerns this will address with "view-shed" aren't that different from the ones they are attempting to address with the hillside ordinance.

Yeah as I said before I understand the reasonings but I am worried that they are getting a bit too restrictive. It seems they are really walking a very thin line between cutting building heights so low that you end up promoting sprawl instead.

Just thought I'd give a little more info on these Divinity Building. As it is now, it would be around $60-70 Mil development. 137 hotel rooms, 23 condos and a 340 space parking deck. There apparently will be an outdoor entertainment area on the 5th floor facing Dickson being referred to as the Razor-deck. Apparently HKS of Dallas designed the building. It's supposed to incorporate styles around Dickson along with some new.

[DickSonstreetDFW]

Just thought I'd give a little more info on these Divinity Building. As it is now, it would be around $60-70 Mil development. 137 hotel rooms, 23 condos and a 340 space parking deck.

Its the perfect corner for a luxury hotel.

[Mith242]

I added some more info to my previous post that I missed. It's on the previous page now.

[DickSonstreetDFW]

I added some more info to my previous post that I missed. It's on the previous page now.

The rooftop patio is an excellent idea.

When I was in Fayetteville over the weekend, I visited Ryleigh's sports bar in the old Bakery Building complex. I wondered why the rooftop out their front door had not been converted to a patio.

I think it would go over well, particulary in the warm Spring and Summer, and even Fall nights to have a place to have a few cocktails and take in the views of the city, particularly Old Main at night.

Although Deep Ellum in Dallas has definitely seen better days, the one thing that it always had was several rooftop bars with excellent nighttime views of the skyline. I'll miss that.

Great idea.

[Mith242]

The rooftop patio is an excellent idea.

When I was in Fayetteville over the weekend, I visited Ryleigh's sports bar in the old Bakery Building complex. I wondered why the rooftop out their front door had not been converted to a patio.

I think it would go over well, particulary in the warm Spring and Summer, and even Fall nights to have a place to have a few cocktails and take in the views of the city, particularly Old Main at night.

Although Deep Ellum in Dallas has definitely seen better days, the one thing that it always had was several rooftop bars with excellent nighttime views of the skyline. I'll miss that.

Great idea.

I certainly agree with more outdoor patios around Dickson in particular. Granted the weather isn't going to be great year round but you'd still think it would be good enough to have more areas like these.

[Mith242]

I had hoped to see some possible future plans but it appears HKS only has what they have already done on their website. Anyway people might find it of interest to take a look at it.

http://www.hksinc.com/

[DickSonstreetDFW]

I had hoped to see some possible future plans but it appears HKS only has what they have already done on their website. Anyway people might find it of interest to take a look at it.

http://www.hksinc.com/

WOW. They are the ones who did the W Hotel and Residences that is completing construction here in Dallas' new Victory Park neighborhood.

Here's a link to a pic: http://forum.dallasmetropolis.com/attachme...tachmentid=9589

I don't expect anything this flashy, but this group does excellent work.

This could become a major icon for Fayetteville. I can't wait to see what their design looks like.

[Mith242]

WOW. They are the ones who did the W Hotel and Residences that is completing construction here in Dallas' new Victory Park neighborhood.

Here's a link to a pic: http://forum.dallasmetropolis.com/attachme...tachmentid=9589

I don't expect anything this flashy, but this group does excellent work.

This could become a major icon for Fayetteville. I can't wait to see what their design looks like.

Yeah I was surprised to see some of the stuff they've done. I wish there were some renderings available to see what this Divinity project is going to look like. It certainly looks like the Barber Group aren't cutting any corners with this development so far.

[Mith242]

Okay I got a render of this development from the paper today. There's an editorial about this development and Dickson St in general in today's Arkansas Democrat Gazette . He didn't really slam it but did mention that maybe people might want to think more about what they want Dickson St to be before all these changes occur. I admit this design doesn't fit in with the rest of the architecture like I thought it would. I do find the design interesting, I'm sure not everyone will agree. But as I said my only concern is that it doesn't seem to fit in as well as I thought it might.

[strmchsr77]

Okay I got a render of this development from the paper today. There's an editorial about this development and Dickson St in general in today's Arkansas Democrat Gazette . He didn't really slam it but did mention that maybe people might want to think more about what they want Dickson St to be before all these changes occur. I admit this design doesn't fit in with the rest of the architecture like I thought it would. I do find the design interesting, I'm sure not everyone will agree. But as I said my only concern is that it doesn't seem to fit in as well as I thought it might.

For some reason the rendering is not showing up on my computer and possibly everyones. Try and post it again. I won't be back in Fayetteville to see the paper until tomorrow.

Thanks!

[Mith242]

It's popping up for me, but it does seem to be taking a while for it to happen. I'll keep an eye on it and see if anyone else is having problems with it.