Tucson Downtown/Rio Nuevo Thread

[MJLO]

wait am I reading that wrong, or is the Mayor of Tucson a republican? That would strike me as odd given the political nature of Tucson.

[colin]

It is odd, but he's very moderate. Actually, even the Republicans that were on the Council were very moderate. The Pima County sherriff is also Republican.

[MJLO]

well they would have to be moderate. I am sure that Tucsonans would never elect a social conservative for their government. It's not in their genetic makeup

[colin]

Two-way streets Downtown may be a long way off

"City transportation officials have said that could change when the final section of Barraza-Aviation is completed, and when 22nd Street is widened, because those two roads will offer better access to I-10 from south and east of Downtown."

EXACTLY!

[colin]

Kids' museum mulls Rio Nuevo move

The children's museum is now in the old armory just south of Downtown in what is actually a very beautiful spot. It's strange the council deems the building "inappropriate" for the children's museum because it would just probably turn into another museum if anything.

Maybe it's just the Rio Nuevo push.

[colin]

Another strong indication of why Rio Nuevo is/was so good in principal:

Large conference pulling out

There are several lower-end motels within walking distance of the convention center, but I wouldn't put someone up there and tell them to walk. I don't know what it's going to take to get more hotel rooms in actual Downtown Tucson.

[MJLO]

have any hotel rooms been proposed recently? I would take cooperation from residents/ city. I understand I wouldn't want to stay in a certain kind of hotel room either.

[colin]

Rio Nuevo team sent to various city offices

So I guess this means that Rio Nuevo is basically dead, or rather absorbed into the City. Maybe the City can manage the money a little more effectively.

[convulso]

i've just never seen a state allot a city so much money (and a financial structure for obtaining it, to boot) without prior assurances of accountability: X amount of dollars is committed to go to Y, and it should be finished by 200Z. how did tucson manage to score this measure of tax siphoning without some very concrete plans for the money? tucson, the stepchild to the capital city?

i'm a fu<king pessimist.

Edited March 17, 2007 by convulso

[MJLO]

LOL if you ask me, Tucson is the responsible child of the drunken parent.

[colin]

Homeless living on rooftops Downtown

Sort of typifies the issue Downtown.

And a follow-up:

Police copter flyovers could clear roofs

Edited March 18, 2007 by colin

[convulso]

i just read both of those this morning. the first article tried not to be condescending, but some of the proprietors they talked to basically said some version of - 'we don't want to seem coldhearted...but homeless people are keeping us from making money.'

it's true, of course, but there's no way not to make it sound very crass - human dignity versus a profit-shearing nuisance. i guess if you're gonna do an article about homeless people living in roof tents, the only way to stick any genuine compassion in there is to give city leaders the chance to go on record with plans for a funded agency to provide a systematic and accountable transition program, along with non-criminal enforcement to channel future transients into said program going forward.

i read an article in another city's paper a couple of months ago that dealt with something very similar, but the city in this instance had just implemented a sweep program, with the essential ongoing funding, to remove homeless people from rooftops and underpass enclaves and stick with them during a long-term period of habituation into a settled life (or to channel them toward medical treatment for those with physical and especially mental disabilites). idealistic, yes, but the financial commitment to the program, coupled with a social services approach (as opposed to a prosecutorial approach) to relieving vagrancy gives the program a real shot at achieving a high success rate. this was in a city about the size of tucson's metro, but the homeless population was estimated at fewer than 500, whereas tucson's is - what did it say in the article (laziness!)? - more than 4,000?

with those kinds of numbers, if there isn't a serious well-funded and ongoing program in place that ends the revolving door here, there definitely should be. imho, it's crucial to the success of our downtown's attempt at image rehab.

Edited March 18, 2007 by convulso

[colin]

The article points it out, and I've heard it from lots of others, that people are just scared of the panhandlers and homeless people, and that certainly adds to the negative impression of Downtown (despite it being actually safer than other areas of town, which the article also points out). I think allowing them to loiter and panhandle with little or no intervention from the cops has turned into a bad situation. Another issue (and something I found out after moving here) is the AZ law says that no business can refuse a person water. I was friends with a Grill waitress who told me about the disgusting cups that people would expect her to fill and how they would just hang out outside since they could be kicked out inside.

But you're right, the solution is to effectively reduce the population. I think that, because of the lack of enforcement, Tucson has gained a reputation as a city friendly to the homeless, and this has resulted in the population gaining (there's no way they're all from the area). And, it sounds crass, but it does need to change for Downtown to succeed.

However, I did want to point out the fact that the homeless presence strongly dissipates on Thursday, Friday and Saturday nights. Why? Because there are people around who are unfriendly to their BS. But it's a Catch 22: people won't come Downtown without that aspect being removed, but you need people to remove that aspect. Hmm...

[convulso]

But it's a Catch 22: people won't come Downtown without that aspect being removed, but you need people to remove that aspect. Hmm...

[colin]

Interesting Downtown proposal that seems to have been ignored by other media but picked up by the Weekly's "The Range".

Hat's Off

Reminds me of that "Simpsons" episode when Grandpa inherits a bunch of money and is approached by Professor Frank who wants to build a death ray, and is taken aback at the notion of helping people ("Well, it only really has evil applications"). Or maybe the monorail episode reference is more appropriate here.

Either way, nothing brings in the dumb ideas like an ineffective group of politicos sitting on top of several million dollars.

[colin]

City unveils $194 million arena plan

An arena probably won't do a whole lot for the city, but it is needed to accomodate the gem show, which is now relegated mostly to a tent.

Here's the article regarding the private developer's proposal:

Owner of 4 acres has idea for arena

[convulso]

City unveils $194 million arena plan

An arena probably won't do a whole lot for the city, but it is needed to accomodate the gem show, which is now relegated mostly to a tent.

Here's the article regarding the private developer's proposal:

Owner of 4 acres has idea for arena

[colin]

Don't bad-mouth Arby's, you'll get Matt all upset.

I had heard that Giffords' family owned that lot, but I may be wrong. If they do, they should sell it to the City at below market value for the greater good of Tucson. Letter writing campaign??

But at least with a private developer, it would have a better chance of actually getting off the ground.

[colin]

Article on the Post Lofts unveiling in the Downtown Tucsonan: Downtown Lowdown

Anyone for bets that this will get built in the next 10 years? I'll give 2 to 1 odds!

Also in this issue is an article on the upcoming Club Crawl. They allude to, but don't specifically address the mayhem of the last one in October. I didn't go (I didn't like the Spring one even though I performed), but I heard stories of bat-wielding frat boys cruising Broadway and general bad vibes.

I say cut off the alcohol and keep the dipsh*ts under supervision at Maloney's until the crowds go back to reasonable, then bring back in Nimbus (they do/did Downtown Saturdays). Also I think it would help if KFMA did not sponsor it and stick to promoting their annual Sony/BMI-fest at the Fairgrounds instead of pretending they support local acts.

Just a rant.

Oh, and there's activity behind the MLK apartments at the location of a planned development. The ground has been cleared and the lot fenced off, but I'm not sure on the activity as I'm rarely Downtown during business hours.

Edited April 4, 2007 by colin

[colin]

Quick approval from Council, but watch the paint dry on this thing getting built.

Council gives speedy OK to $130M arena

And one just for the height junkies (height in Tucson??):

City expands search for developer to build luxury Downtown hotel

"The expansion would create the tallest building in Tucson by eight stories, Karber said, and would also allow Karber and hotel owner Humberto S. Lopez to build an eight-story mixed-use office and retail center at the corner of Broadway and Granada Avenue that would have the new modern streetcar run either through it or adjacent to it."

Sounds nice!

[colin]

Slack Demand

Yay to the Weekly for stating the obvious despite the balloon of hope floating around town: "Hey, the condo market in Tucson has plumetted and there's no demand for these places".

You'll find the Academy Lofts in a picture thread on here and usually on Craig's List as rental properties.

If only the developer mentality wasn't so bandwagon. I know, I'll make it my futile crusade to change this during my time of joblessness.

So, three projects mentioned: 44 E Broadway, Post Lofts and Lofts at Fifth Avenue.

Colin's predictions:

Project most likely to be started within the next 5 years: Post Lofts

Project that has no flippin' chance failing divine intervention: Lofts at Fifth Avenue

Chances that any of these projects will be started within the next 10 years: 15%

[tombarnes]

Keep us posted about that hotel tower Colin. I know there's demand in Tucson for hotel rooms, but do you think there's enough to support this ambitious project? It may go against the thinking prevalent on these boards, but I wonder if extreme height is needed in downtown Tucson. Perhaps something lower with greater density would make more sense?

[MJLO]

Holy crap, I go on hiadous for a couple weeks, and all this juicy news comes out of Tucson. Don't be to leary of an arena, it's not an end all, but an arena, built in the mid 90's was the initial catalyst for Grand Rapids MI's current construction, and development explosion they are experiencing now.

[colin]

I agree. We don't need something tall, we just need higher-end rooms. A tall hotel in Tucson doesn't work in Downtown Tucson because there's not much to overlook, although it may work for rising over everything else to see the mountains.

I say renovate the Arizona Inn (Radisson left it for a reason), then build another hotel very close to that or expand it. There's also what is now known as the Riverview Inn just on the other side of the freeway that would be right next to the proposed arena. It's got a lot of potential (has the only Bennigan's in the state!) but also needs renovation.

The whole issue is that they're having to put convention goers, who are willing to put down $150-250/night, in those nasty interstate motels like the Days Inn, HoJo and Motel 6(s) simply because there's no alternative. They just need more hotel rooms Downtown.

I'm not discounting the arena idea. I think it's great, especially since we could then get a semi-pro hockey team and maybe even a semi-pro basketball (NBA-D or something) into town. It could be a catalyst. I was just disappointed that it wasn't some mixed-use project. When I talked to the Rio Nuevo people something like 1.5 years ago, they had mentioned basically destroying the TCC and turning the space into a more dynamic, community-oriented area with a mix of residential, commercial (offices and retail) and convention facilities. I thought that was a great idea, but this seems to be yet another indication that the waste-of-space TCC is here to stay for the time being.

[colin]

http://www.azstarnet.com/metro/177460

More on the hotel and arena plan.

Apparently some see the rendering as looking like a turtle. I don't really see it.

You can suggest a name on here though.