PROPOSED: Magnet School

[Bill Mocarsky]

So, do you feel that the land is too valuable to use for a public school and that Hartford students shouldn't be entitled to learn in the bastion of our skyline? I'm just not completely sure what you are saying here. Obviously it is a corner with great views and could be developed by a private developer for a tax generating purpose. I just happen to think it's a good corner for a school and would give students a central location with easy access to Downtown and the rest of the city.

Perhaps the lot at Asylum and Main could be a contender. The upside is that there are more bus lines in the area. However, the students wouldn't have a comparable skyline panorama.

[HartfordTycoon]

Why do school age kids need access to downtown? The vast majority of them can't even drive. I think a school in this location dramatically increases traffic in an already congested area while generating no taxes for the city. I'm all for building new schools, but this is not a great use of prime real estate IMO.

Exactly, school aged kids with no cars. 1/2 of the school will be Juniors and Seniors looking for work study opportunities and from this location they are in a safe neighborhood within walking distance of all of the corporations downtown, state government offices, and the corporations in Asylum Hill. These are High School kids and would walk these distances with no second thought. I do understand that it would be a good site for other development and do agree with that point I just do not feel as if it's too valuable to use on Hartford's children. I also think having a school here would be a very quick efficient way to add life and rid this area of it's constantly sterile existence.

Perhaps the lot at Asylum and Main could be a contender. The upside is that there are more bus lines in the area. However, the students wouldn't have a comparable skyline panorama.

Now that site would be better utilized for a profitable use IMO. I would still like to see something like Renaissance Place go in there, a nice office tower/hotel/ retail.

IMO, this site is not as centrally located with respect to the city's residential neighborhoods where the kids live and traffic would be much a more severe problem for parents and teachers/ staff right in the middle of Downtown.

[JHChris280]

Imagine the million $$ views that the students will have....................probably one of the best sweeping panoramas of the Hartford skyline that features the Capitol. That should command some big bucks.

So while I'm daydreaming let me through something completely crazy in the mix.......

Putting Bill M.'s idea to work and creating a "Government Park" setting. I know it doesn't necessarily add to the tax base but it creates one cohesive neighborhood/destination. Anchoring this would be the State Capitol of course, along with the Christopher Dodd Presidential Library.

Yes, I told you I was daydreaming and the idea was crazy, but stranger things in national elections have happened.

[Bill Mocarsky]

Now that site would be better utilized for a profitable use IMO. I would still like to see something like Renaissance Place go in there, a nice office tower/hotel/ retail.

IMO, this site is not as centrally located with respect to the city's residential neighborhoods where the kids live and traffic would be much a more severe problem for parents and teachers/ staff right in the middle of Downtown.

The site of the proposed magnet school is potentially a very powerful site for the city. At the moment the highway is a hindrance to the potential. However, things may change in the future.

The message the mayor is giving us is that we will never overcome this obstacle.

The Mayor needs to ask himself the following question:

Will this building be a stepping stone to surmounting the barrier between Asylum Hill and the Capitol area, or will it make it all the more difficult?

Several years before I-91 was built, Hartford turned its back on the river(s). The dykes were built along the Connecticut while the Park river was buried. The point is that the Whitehead Highway and I-91 did not sever the city from its rivers. The city just assumed we had no interest in the river. So these highways were just the nails in the coffin.

[HartfordTycoon]

The site of the proposed magnet school is potentially a very powerful site for the city. At the moment the highway is a hindrance to the potential. However, things may change in the future.

The message the mayor is giving us is that we will never overcome this obstacle.

The Mayor needs to ask himself the following question:

Will this building be a stepping stone to surmounting the barrier between Asylum Hill and the Capitol area, or will it make it all the more difficult?

Several years before I-91 was built, Hartford turned its back on the river(s). The dykes were built along the Connecticut while the Park river was buried. The point is that the Whitehead Highway and I-91 did not sever the city from its rivers. The city just assumed we had no interest in the river. So these highways were just the nails in the coffin.

Well, if 84 is moved, doesn't that open up wide swaths of land for development adjacent to this site that could be built near the school? I agree it's a great site, and as a graduate of Hartford Public High School who interned at The Hartford and City Hall, I think it's a great location for a school and the students would have a great environment to learn in for generations. That, in my mind is priceless. And like you said, if 84 doesn't ever go away, not too much will happen right there anyway. It's also the rightful and historic site of Hartford Public and I just kind of feel that putting school there is a good use of it.

Either way you slice it, the better you make that corner and take out the highways and stuff, the more I think Hartford kids should be there all day learning. That's just where I come down on this one. Hartford kids deserve schools in great locations.

[Bill Mocarsky]

Well, if 84 is moved, doesn't that open up wide swaths of land for development adjacent to this site that could be built near the school? I agree it's a great site, and as a graduate of Hartford Public High School who interned at The Hartford and City Hall, I think it's a great location for a school and the students would have a great environment to learn in for generations. That, in my mind is priceless. And like you said, if 84 doesn't ever go away, not too much will happen right there anyway. It's also the rightful and historic site of Hartford Public and I just kind of feel that putting school there is a good use of it.

Either way you slice it, the better you make that corner and take out the highways and stuff, the more I think Hartford kids should be there all day learning. That's just where I come down on this one. Hartford kids deserve schools in great locations.

Maybe the school is the missing link in making the gateway to the Farmington Avenue corridor into a 24/7 neighborhood.

[Luca Brasi]

Exactly, school aged kids with no cars. 1/2 of the school will be Juniors and Seniors looking for work study opportunities and from this location they are in a safe neighborhood within walking distance of all of the corporations downtown, state government offices, and the corporations in Asylum Hill. These are High School kids and would walk these distances with no second thought. I do understand that it would be a good site for other development and do agree with that point I just do not feel as if it's too valuable to use on Hartford's children.

Agree to disagree on this one. I can see your point, but how many kids will actually work downtown? A handful? Not enough to justify this. The area will be choked with traffic from 3 to 5PM making the pedestrian-unfriendly area even more dangerous to these kids who you say are going to walk downtown. I don't think kids are going to learn any better with a view of the downtown skyline, but condos and office space would surely sell better.

West Hartford's grand list is larger than Hartford's (which is shameful) because of decisions like these.

[Bill Mocarsky]

Well, if 84 is moved, doesn't that open up wide swaths of land for development adjacent to this site that could be built near the school? I agree it's a great site, and as a graduate of Hartford Public High School who interned at The Hartford and City Hall, I think it's a great location for a school and the students would have a great environment to learn in for generations. That, in my mind is priceless. And like you said, if 84 doesn't ever go away, not too much will happen right there anyway. It's also the rightful and historic site of Hartford Public and I just kind of feel that putting school there is a good use of it.

When HPHS was there, it was appropriate for a school. A lot has changed since.

[MadVlad]

I've already stated that this is a horrible spot for a school. There are some spots that would be nice for schools, and some that wouldn't, and I think this is 1000% in the "not good" camp. I'm not trying to downgrade the importance of a good education or whatever, but having a nice view isn't important in someone's learning curve, in my opinion. If they would trade spots with Capitol West, then I'd be OK with it, get the apartments on that corner. They could make potentially make a ton of money off that spot, and I think the school would do well no matter where it goes, so they might as well maximize the potential of everything....

[GHartford]

I think the question is, are there developers clamoring for development rights on that site? It doesn't appear that there are, although I can't claim to know for sure. What would you prefer to see on the site? Wait, don't tell me, a tall apartment or condo tower. I can't argue with that, but at this point, I think we are going to see developers waiting to see how the current/near future downtown units fill up before they start talking about something like that on this here. Any other ideas? I would also be curious as to the site's dimensions- there is a really steep grade and the parcel isn't that big. I think the main concern with the school is the traffic before and after the school day, that and the fact that no school aged kids really live in the immediate vicinity. Still, with the road improvements, a school could add a lot to that corner. If they do build it, I would like to see the architecture honor the original Hartford High, one of the most beautiful buildings Hartford has ever had (see below) and a symbol of how we have really screwed up. At the very least the double towers would be cool and pay tribute to Hartford's past...

http://www.hartfordpublic.com/

[blackstone]

I think the question is, are there developers clamoring for development rights on that site? It doesn't appear that there are, although I can't claim to know for sure. What would you prefer to see on the site? Wait, don't tell me, a tall apartment or condo tower. I can't argue with that, but at this point, I think we are going to see developers waiting to see how the current/near future downtown units fill up before they start talking about something like that on this here. Any other ideas? I would also be curious as to the site's dimensions- there is a really steep grade and the parcel isn't that big. I think the main concern with the school is the traffic before and after the school day, that and the fact that no school aged kids really live in the immediate vicinity. Still, with the road improvements, a school could add a lot to that corner. If they do build it, I would like to see the architecture honor the original Hartford High, one of the most beautiful buildings Hartford has ever had (see below) and a symbol of how we have really screwed up. At the very least the double towers would be cool and pay tribute to Hartford's past...

http://www.hartfordpublic.com/

i don't think the property at Farmington av and Broad that is to be developed can be done affectively without some significant change to the current traffic configuration. i don't know if anyone has suggested this, but here goes. east bound Farmington av traffic must turn right at Broad. east bound Asylum traffic crossing Cogswell/Broad must turn left onto Cogswell or continue toward the train station. Sigourney street would be used for people wanting to switch from Asylum to Farmington av and vica-versa. Asylum Place would be closed.

Farmington av would be one way from Flower to Broad. Broad street would be one way from Farmington av toward Capitol av. Flower would be one way from Capitol av to Farmington av.

traffic lights at Farmington av and Sigourney, Asylum and Sigourney, Asylum and Cogswell, Farmington av and Flower. no traffic light at Farmington av and Broad.

I believe that westbound traffic is not hindered with these changes.

the current roadway between Broad and where Asylum and Farmington actually meet would be taken out of the traffic pattern accept as an entry way or part of whatever could be built on that adjacent property that everyone wants to see developed.

i think that this area has always been a hassle. adding a big project at the site would make it more like total gridlock without some change in traffic pattern. what do you think?

[MadVlad]

i don't think the property at Farmington av and Broad that is to be developed can be done affectively without some significant change to the current traffic configuration. i don't know if anyone has suggested this, but here goes. east bound Farmington av traffic must turn right at Broad. east bound Asylum traffic crossing Cogswell/Broad must turn left onto Cogswell or continue toward the train station. Sigourney street would be used for people wanting to switch from Asylum to Farmington av and vica-versa. Asylum Place would be closed.

Farmington av would be one way from Flower to Broad. Broad street would be one way from Farmington av toward Capitol av. Flower would be one way from Capitol av to Farmington av.

traffic lights at Farmington av and Sigourney, Asylum and Sigourney, Asylum and Cogswell, Farmington av and Flower. no traffic light at Farmington av and Broad.

I believe that westbound traffic is not hindered with these changes.

the current roadway between Broad and where Asylum and Farmington actually meet would be taken out of the traffic pattern accept as an entry way or part of whatever could be built on that adjacent property that everyone wants to see developed.

i think that this area has always been a hassle. adding a big project at the site would make it more like total gridlock without some change in traffic pattern. what do you think?

That sounds more confusing than what already goes on there....

[Bill Mocarsky]

I think the question is, are there developers clamoring for development rights on that site

I am not sure if you read my posts, but that mindset sums up how the current route of I-91 by the river was justified.

[Bill Mocarsky]

Well, if 84 is moved, doesn't that open up wide swaths of land for development adjacent to this site that could be built near the school? I agree it's a great site, and as a graduate of Hartford Public High School who interned at The Hartford and City Hall, I think it's a great location for a school and the students would have a great environment to learn in for generations. That, in my mind is priceless. And like you said, if 84 doesn't ever go away, not too much will happen right there anyway. It's also the rightful and historic site of Hartford Public and I just kind of feel that putting school there is a good use of it.

Wouldn't the school hinder any efforts to fix the highway? And wouldn't the school be an obstacle between the Capitol area and Asylum Hill?

Things were quite different when HPHS was there. For one, there was a network of side streets. Hopkins Street was one of the streets that bordered HPHS.

[beerbeer]

Hate to say it. But something is better than nothing. The cost of retooling I-84 is probably hundreds of millions of dollars. I would rather see that money put into high spped, or even light, rail.

The school is only a couple of floors tall so anything hi-rise behind it would still enjoy the view.

[Bill Mocarsky]

Hate to say it. But something is better than nothing. The cost of retooling I-84 is probably hundreds of millions of dollars. I would rather see that money put into high spped, or even light, rail.

The school is only a couple of floors tall so anything hi-rise behind it would still enjoy the view.

You need to go up into a building to enjoy the view?

[HartfordTycoon]

Wouldn't the school hinder any efforts to fix the highway? And wouldn't the school be an obstacle between the Capitol area and Asylum Hill?

Things were quite different when HPHS was there. For one, there was a network of side streets. Hopkins Street was one of the streets that bordered HPHS.

I don't see how it would be an obstacle, seeing as how it is already seperated by the lot itself. I just don't see how putting a school on the lot creates any more of an obstacle.

[GHartford]

I am not sure if you read my posts, but that mindset sums up how the current route of I-91 by the river was justified.

Yes, I have read your posts. But, no one is considering putting a highway on this site. A school has community benefit and this particular school needs a site. My point is partially that as some have said, something is better than nothing. But further, a school is way better than nothing, especially with no other development plans on the horizon there.

[MadVlad]

Yes, I have read your posts. But, no one is considering putting a highway on this site. A school has community benefit and this particular school needs a site. My point is partially that as some have said, something is better than nothing. But further, a school is way better than nothing, especially with no other development plans on the horizon there.

I'm not sure that the "something is better than nothing" mindset is correct. I can see the point, I just don't agree, I guess.

[HartfordTycoon]

Yes, I have read your posts. But, no one is considering putting a highway on this site. A school has community benefit and this particular school needs a site. My point is partially that as some have said, something is better than nothing. But further, a school is way better than nothing, especially with no other development plans on the horizon there.

Completely how I feel. A school is a tremendous development for the city. It's not some cookie cutter BS we are talking about. A really good school deserves a really good site. Not an afterthought on some back street.

[Bill Mocarsky]

Completely how I feel. A school is a tremendous development for the city. It's not some cookie cutter BS we are talking about. A really good school deserves a really good site. Not an afterthought on some back street.

[HartfordTycoon]

I've said it many times. Looks good to me and works very well for me at that site. I hope it happens.

[Bill Mocarsky]

I've said it many times. Looks good to me and works very well for me at that site. I hope it happens.

It looks like some care went into the design of the building so it will complement (and not overshadow or block) nearby landmarks such as the YWCA building across the street. Hopefully it will put more feet on the street on evenings and weekends.

[HartfordTycoon]

It looks like some care went into the design of the building so it will complement (and not overshadow or block) nearby landmarks such as the YWCA building across the street. Hopefully it will put more feet on the street on evenings and weekends.

Maybe a few more feet, since there will be extra carricular activities. I really and truly just hope it turns out to be a good school and that the kids enjoy the location and make useful connections with the institutions around them.

[MadVlad]

I think kids could really care less about a location or a view. Kids, in general, dislike school, and just drudge there and drudge back. I think it's a waste on a school, not because it's a school, or because a school isn't important, but I disagree that it is important there....