PROPOSED: Magnet School

[Bill Mocarsky]

I have thought that this proposal for the magnet school could be used to enlighten people, so they can demand something better.

I don't see any rhyme or reason for the Broad Street site for a magnet school. Looking at site and say no building there so we need to fill gap (without putting it into the context of the city) is very small thinking. Perez has some strong points, but his vision here is not one of them.

As far as alternative sites for the school, how about Hawthorn Street? A school here could create a learning corridor effect by filling a void between Aetna and Hartford High.

[MadVlad]

I have thought that this proposal for the magnet school could be used to enlighten people, so they can demand something better.

As far as alternative sites for the school, how about Hawthorn Street? A school here could create a learning corridor effect by filling a void between Aetna and Hartford High.

I have no problem with that use of Hawthorne St. I think that would definitely be a better spot for a school.

[HartfordTycoon]

I have thought that this proposal for the magnet school could be used to enlighten people, so they can demand something better.

I don't see any rhyme or reason for the Broad Street site for a magnet school. Looking at site and say no building there so we need to fill gap (without putting it into the context of the city) is very small thinking. Perez has some strong points, but his vision here is not one of them.

As far as alternative sites for the school, how about Hawthorn Street? A school here could create a learning corridor effect by filling a void between Aetna and Hartford High.

Where on Hawthorn do you envision it? Something does need to be done over there, and my first reaction honestly is that area is pretty unattractive and would not be nearly as appealing to get out of district and suburban kids to enroll at the magnet school which is a huge part of the point of having a magnet school. Hawthorn near S. Marshall is pretty bad, I wouldn't want send my kids to school over there, if the other choice was Broad and Farmington, however that is just my 2 cents. That area is due for an overhaul, maybe a nice new school could be the catalyst and lead to a "learning corridor effect" for that area.

With that said, I seriously feel that there are certain realities we must work around. In order for this to work on Hawthorn would you demolish something, or put it right there near S. Marshall? If you are going to put it on the site near S. Marshall, you will have an uphill battle fighting a negative image of that neighborhood and perceived danger. You will also need very real plans to improve the surrounding neighborhood. Also, it would not be a very visible place for the Hartford Board of Education's newest showpeice City Magnet School. Many more people are already and familiar with the proposed area and it's closer to places of work that students' parents may already work at. Not saying that Hawthorn is far, just off the beaten path for most.

What about inter district science fairs and such, would that draw as well on Hawthorn as on Broad and Farmington? What about the kids potentially having to walk through a tougher neighborhood everyday? These are real concerns. The majority of people in the region, city and suburban residents alike would feel more comfortable visiting the proposed site. More people will see the school at the proposed site. The students will feel like they don't go to school in the hood and will have the state capitol and downtown outsite of their windows as opposed to S. Marshall St. I think these things are key to the argument.

What it boils down to is prestige. An address on Broad and Farmington is more prestigious for a school than one on Hawthorn and S. Marshall. Prestige is important for a school.

[MadVlad]

Well, a few things could be done (allow me some leway here, it wasn't my idea to begin with, so I don't have it mentally planned out). It could be done at the corner of Laurel and Hawthorne where the brick factory burned down. That's very close to Aetna and the old Xerox building which is now a State building. It could also be put on both sides of Hawthorne near S. Marshall with a little walkway over the street.

As far as the neighborhood, I don't recall the area on Broad/Washington where the current learning corridor is being that great, in fact, it was horrible. Couldn't the same be done in the Hawthorne/Laurel/S. Marshall area? When finished, parents could look at that new facility just as they viewed the new facility on Washington St, as a new facility. It would be up to the city and the planners to spruce up the surrounding areas, maybe clean up the crappy apartment buildings along South Marshall, Case, and Laurel. It would be a nice conduit going west toward Forest St and HPHS. Maybe some new apartments along the rest of Hawthorne and the area would pick up some....

[HartfordTycoon]

Well, a few things could be done (allow me some leway here, it wasn't my idea to begin with, so I don't have it mentally planned out). It could be done at the corner of Laurel and Hawthorne where the brick factory burned down. That's very close to Aetna and the old Xerox building which is now a State building. It could also be put on both sides of Hawthorne near S. Marshall with a little walkway over the street.

As far as the neighborhood, I don't recall the area on Broad/Washington where the current learning corridor is being that great, in fact, it was horrible. Couldn't the same be done in the Hawthorne/Laurel/S. Marshall area? When finished, parents could look at that new facility just as they viewed the new facility on Washington St, as a new facility. It would be up to the city and the planners to spruce up the surrounding areas, maybe clean up the crappy apartment buildings along South Marshall, Case, and Laurel. It would be a nice conduit going west toward Forest St and HPHS. Maybe some new apartments along the rest of Hawthorne and the area would pick up some....

I agree, I'm not saying that it's a bad spot, however there are obvious pro and cons to each site. It all needs to be examined. It will take a lot of work to make that neighborhood condusive to this project and as I mentioned earlier I didn't want to see it relagated to a back street, but if it would work out better I'd support it. I just need to hear all of the arguments. What about visibility? Nobody else wants to show off the new school? I know I do. I just don't see what's so terrible about using the site for a school. I really for the life of me don't. I understand that the site has potential, but so do so many other sites in the city. Why should the school be tucked away somewhere because you think the view would be wasted on some kids? I happen to believe that they would actually appreciate going to a school with a great view and that it's not a waste if it can help make people feel good about their school. And that goes for staff and students. I know if I was a teacher/administrator I would prefer to have a nice view of the city. The bottom line is, I truly believe that the occupants of the school would choose the Broad and Farmington site over a Hawthorn street site in a heartbeat. That should matter and I think it does, which is why the school is proposed where it's proposed.

[Bill Mocarsky]

Where on Hawthorn do you envision it? Something does need to be done over there, and my first reaction honestly is that area is pretty unattractive and would not be nearly as appealing to get out of district and suburban kids to enroll at the magnet school which is a huge part of the point of having a magnet school. Hawthorn near S. Marshall is pretty bad, I wouldn't want send my kids to school over there, if the other choice was Broad and Farmington, however that is just my 2 cents. That area is due for an overhaul, maybe a nice new school could be the catalyst and lead to a "learning corridor effect" for that area.

With that said, I seriously feel that there are certain realities we must work around. In order for this to work on Hawthorn would you demolish something, or put it right there near S. Marshall? If you are going to put it on the site near S. Marshall, you will have an uphill battle fighting a negative image of that neighborhood and perceived danger. You will also need very real plans to improve the surrounding neighborhood. Also, it would not be a very visible place for the Hartford Board of Education's newest showpeice City Magnet School. Many more people are already and familiar with the proposed area and it's closer to places of work that students' parents may already work at. Not saying that Hawthorn is far, just off the beaten path for most.

What about inter district science fairs and such, would that draw as well on Hawthorn as on Broad and Farmington? What about the kids potentially having to walk through a tougher neighborhood everyday? These are real concerns. The majority of people in the region, city and suburban residents alike would feel more comfortable visiting the proposed site. More people will see the school at the proposed site. The students will feel like they don't go to school in the hood and will have the state capitol and downtown outsite of their windows as opposed to S. Marshall St. I think these things are key to the argument.

What it boils down to is prestige. An address on Broad and Farmington is more prestigious for a school than one on Hawthorn and S. Marshall. Prestige is important for a school.

Proposing a school for Hawthorne street could be a catalyst to once and for all doing something about South Marshall. South Marshall is almost isolated from other delapidaded areas.

The new HPHS and Mark Twain House is to the west.

The Farmington Avenue alliance is working to revitalize the avenue to the north.

Aetna and the Culinary Institute is to the east.

Put the magnet school on the south and clean up the hole in the middle.

[HartfordTycoon]

Proposing a school for Hawthorne street could be a catalyst to once and for all doing something about South Marshall. South Marshall is almost isolated from other delapidaded areas.

The new HPHS and Mark Twain House is to the west.

The Farmington Avenue alliance is working to revitalize the avenue to the north.

Aetna and the Culinary Institute is to the east.

Put the magnet school on the south and clean up the hole in the middle.

It sounds like a good idea, just a lot of work with many obstacles. There are costly logistical obstacles for both sites. I wouldn't mind having a magnet school at both sites personally.

"The cleaning up the hole in the middle" That's the hardest part and is asking a lot for a school that I would like to see built within the next year or so. Maybe Hawthorn will be ready for a school in a few years. Let's get to work on that area now, so it will be suitable when the next magnet school gets proposed.

[Bill Mocarsky]

What about visibility? Nobody else wants to show off the new school? I know I do.

Isn't Hawthorne Street near I-84?

What would be the point of showing off a building that is way out of context?

Looking at a bigger picture, I could see the potential of a school or university in the Broad Street area. However, it would need to be integrated with the Capitol Area as well. The students shouldn't be limited to approaching or leaving the building from Farmington and Broad.

[MadVlad]

Isn't Hawthorne Street near I-84?

You took the words out of my mouth, this site is immediately north of I-84, every single person stuck in traffic could see this bright new school. I think a catalyst to transform this neighborhood would be better than filling a space with more more potential "just to fill it".

[HartfordTycoon]

Isn't Hawthorne Street near I-84?

What would be the point of showing off a building that is way out of context?

Looking at a bigger picture, I could see the potential of a school or university in the Broad Street area. However, it would need to be integrated with the Capitol Area as well. The students shouldn't be limited to approaching or leaving the building from Farmington and Broad.

That's a good point about I 84, however I think highrises grab attention from the Highway better than schools and schools work better from city streets. There's no argument really that it's way less visible on Hawthorn. It's just a matter of how important is that visibility to the success of the school. Probably not very, more like icing on the cake. I really understand all of your positions, I just think having a premier school at a premier corner makes sense when you are trying to turn around a school system and a city. I don't advocate building it there "just to fill space" but rather find that the site has real merit for a magnet school location. It's a nice, well maintained area, easy access to prominent institutions, great views for students, staff, and visitors, high visibility from Broad or Farmington, or Asylum for that matter, etc.

[MadVlad]

That's a good point about I 84, however I think highrises grab attention from the Highway better than schools and schools work better from city streets. There's no argument really that it's way less visible on Hawthorn. It's just a matter of how important is that visibility to the success of the school. Probably not very, more like icing on the cake. I really understand all of your positions, I just think having a premier school and a premier corner makes sense when you are trying to turn around a school system and a city. I don't advocate building it there "just to fill space" but rather find that the site has real merit for a magnet school location. It's a nice, well maintained area, easy access to prominent institutions, great views for students, staff, and visitors, high visibility from Broad or Farmington, or Asylum for that matter, etc.

And I too understand your point of view. Personally, I'd rather a nice 24/7 living type apartment tower with direct access to downtown and Farmington Ave there than a school. Or a Space Needle, but that's for another thread...

[HartfordTycoon]

And I too understand your point of view. Personally, I'd rather a nice 24/7 living type apartment tower with direct access to downtown and Farmington Ave there than a school. Or a Space Needle, but that's for another thread...

You gotta understand, I still think like a Harford High School kid in many ways. I would rather get my school built on Broad and Farmington any day as opposed to Hawthorn, so it's kind of a personal view about it. I would also love to live in a tower in that area, I think that there's ultimately room for both under the best case scenarios we all want to see. That's why I say build what's ready to get built now somewhere suitable right now and get to work on the rest so we don't squander future opportunities. There is plenty of time to prep the Broad and Farmington area for further development beyond the High School and plenty of time to clean up S. Marshall and such before anyone will even consider building anything over there.

[Bill Mocarsky]

Just a note about the old Hartford High School.

It was located on Hopkins Street, a side street that was eliminated to make way for I-84.