Who should be expelled from the South?

[upstate29650]

I seem to recall a similar sign on I-81 crossing into Maryland from Penn.

[waynehead]

Texas isn't southern, they have their own thing going on.

Florida isn't either anymore, except for snippets in the North.

West Virginia was never southern, I'm not sure why that's even a choice.

Northern Virginia is about as Southern today as Baltimore or Philly, which is to say, not at all.

I don't really consider Arkansas southern, either, though I know some do.

Whatever's left over can stay.

[Jerseyman4]

Northern Virginia is about as Southern today as Baltimore or Philly, which is to say, not at all.

When was Philadelphia ever southern?

[Arkansawyer]

Texas isn't southern, they have their own thing going on.

Florida isn't either anymore, except for snippets in the North.

West Virginia was never southern, I'm not sure why that's even a choice.

Northern Virginia is about as Southern today as Baltimore or Philly, which is to say, not at all.

I don't really consider Arkansas southern, either, though I know some do.

Whatever's left over can stay.

Waynehead, so nice of you to proplerly define the South for all of us... not. You can't arbitrarilty choose which states are Southern. In reality states are, or they aren't.

By the way, the purpose of this poll is not to define which state is Southern, but which state you would like to see secede (the word was misspelled in the subtitle). It's basically for people to say which state they dislike the most, which I'm surprised is allowed.

Texas is undeniably part of the South. The South is a large and diverse region, so Texas has its own unique culture as you say, but Mississippi and Virginia are quite different, yet both are Southern. Every major way we define the South fits Texas. It's Southern historically, politically, religiously, has a Southern dialect and accent, etc. It is a very independent place, and the Western half of the state is best defined as Southernwestern, but it's still Southern.

I agree with you about West Virginia. They chose to leave, and and parts of the state border Pennsylvania and Ohio. It also extends as far north as New Jersey, which should leave no questions.

You're right that Northern Virginia has been overrun by Northerners, but the state is historically part of the South and still has some Southern bastions. It's not like other areas of the South haven't seen a huge influx of Northerners.

The fact that you "consider" Arkansas not to be Southern is ludicrous. You make this ignorant remark, in spite of Arkansas' unquestionable Southern status. Honestly, I don't think a place exemplifies Southern culture better than the Mississippi Delta. This is the heart of the Cotton Belt, the home of the Blues, and I don't think Southern culture has been better preserved in another part of the South. Arkansas is often included as part of the Deep South. It seems to me that being on the East Coast, you have a limited understanding of the Southern region as a whole. I have never heard someone from Mississippi, Tennessee, Louisiana, etc. say this. I'm interested to hear your reasoning (if you used any).

[mcheiss]

I don't really consider Arkansas southern, either, though I know some do.

What are you talking about?

Arkansas is about as southern of a state as one can become. The city of Helena in Arkansas would have been the confederate capitol during the civil war, but it went to Mississippi. Take a look at the Delta, a great producer of Rice and Cotton.

I'd like to hear one reason why you think Arkansas isn't Southern.

[Arkansawyer]

What are you talking about?

Arkansas is about as southern of a state as one can become. The city of Helena in Arkansas would have been the confederate capitol during the civil war, but it went to Mississippi. Take a look at the Delta, a great producer of Rice and Cotton.

I'd like to hear one reason why you think Arkansas isn't Southern.

The first Confederate capital was Montgomery and the second was Richmond.

Helena did produce six Confederate generals, most notably Patrick Cleburne.

[mcheiss]

The first Confederate capital was Montgomery and the second was Richmond.

Helena did produce six Confederate generals, most notably Patrick Cleburne.

Forgive me on that Arkansawyer.

Helena was considered for the capitol though.

[Arkansawyer]

The first Confederate capital was Montgomery and the second was Richmond.

Helena did produce six Confederate generals, most notably Patrick Cleburne.

I underestimated Helena; it actually produced seven generals.

For any history buffs, here is some information about Cleburne. Jefferson Davis called him "the Stonewall of the West," and Robert E. Lee called him a "meteor shining from a clouded sky.'' He was controversial at the time for proposing to abolish slavery and enlist former slaves in the Confederate military.

[StevenRocks]

When was Philadelphia ever southern?

Not the last time I checked...

[chris holman]

Kept them all, the south is blowing up, yeah !!!

[Mith242]

Texas isn't southern, they have their own thing going on.

Florida isn't either anymore, except for snippets in the North.

West Virginia was never southern, I'm not sure why that's even a choice.

Northern Virginia is about as Southern today as Baltimore or Philly, which is to say, not at all.

I don't really consider Arkansas southern, either, though I know some do.

Whatever's left over can stay.

Maybe we should kick out North Carolina too because it has the word north in it's name. I could maybe see parts of Arkansas and Texas not being particularly southern. But I'd say southeast Arkansas is about as southern as any other area of the south.

[waynehead]

I didn't mean to kick up any dirt, and I'm sorry if some of it got in some people's eye. Believe me, I wish there were more southern states, not fewer, and I have nothing personally against the great state of Arkansas and her inhabitants, and certainly I'm conscious of the republic of Texas' history and its alignment with the south (and if I weren't, there are plenty of texans around to constantly remind me of it).

My reason for separating Texas from the rest of the bunch is that I think they have their own thing going on, and though it's closer to Southern than something you'd find in pennsylvania it's still unique in its own way I think. And Texas is so big that I think it can stand on its own.

Now my reason for excluding Arkansas, and I freely admit i may have been mistaken and I welcome your corrections (I know as much about Little Rock as your average resident there knows about Durham - which is to say, some, but not a lot) but I remembered from my Southern Lit class, where, on the first day when we discussed 'what is southern?' that studies had been conducted and concluded the best way to gauge 'southern-ness' was to look at how people self-identified. Did they subscribe to 'southern living,' were there a lot of local businesses with the word 'dixie' in the title (Dixie window washing, dixie car service, and so on) did they identify more with the confederacy, etc etc, and when all of these factors were considered i recall very well a map that ominously darkened the parts of the country that were most southern, and in that region were all of the states we normally consider when defining the south, and excluded from that area were the places i mentioned, like Texas, arkansas, NoVa, and southern florida. I wish I could cite that report for you here, but I can't, you'll either have to believe me or not...or more likely hold firm to your own opinion about what is southern. whatever, i have mine too.

[Jerseyman4]

My reason for separating Texas from the rest of the bunch is that I think they have their own thing going on, and though it's closer to Southern than something you'd find in pennsylvania it's still unique in its own way I think.

Wow, first Philadelphia and now the Keystone state? You may hear stray southern accent or two in Carlisle or Chambersburg but Pennsylvania was never a southern state!

[Arkansawyer]

Now my reason for excluding Arkansas, and I freely admit i may have been mistaken and I welcome your corrections (I know as much about Little Rock as your average resident there knows about Durham - which is to say, some, but not a lot) but I remembered from my Southern Lit class, where, on the first day when we discussed 'what is southern?' that studies had been conducted and concluded the best way to gauge 'southern-ness' was to look at how people self-identified. Did they subscribe to 'southern living,' were there a lot of local businesses with the word 'dixie' in the title (Dixie window washing, dixie car service, and so on) did they identify more with the confederacy, etc etc, and when all of these factors were considered i recall very well a map that ominously darkened the parts of the country that were most southern, and in that region were all of the states we normally consider when defining the south, and excluded from that area were the places i mentioned, like Texas, arkansas, NoVa, and southern florida. I wish I could cite that report for you here, but I can't, you'll either have to believe me or not...or more likely hold firm to your own opinion about what is southern. whatever, i have mine too.

Your argument is about to go down the drain. I've found the statistics that you were looking for, but they actually show the opposite of what you're claiming.

As you can see from this map, about half of Arkansas and North Carolina have "Dixie" listed as more than 25% of "American" listings.

This map shows Arkansas as being in the highest category of the percentage of the white population that reads Southern Living.

[waynehead]

Very cool that you found that, that's not how I remember it but I can't argue with the evidence. I was wrong.

And, no offense intended jerseyman, but are you somehow mentally handicapped? My point in alluding to pennsylvania and baltimore was precisely b/c they ARE NOT SOUTHERN and I was suggesting they have that in common with other places many consider to be in the south, like Texas and Arkansas. If I said, for example, Garner NC is about as big a city as Fuquay Varina, NC, I would not be making that comparison b/c Fuquay is a big town, it isn't; I'm trying to demonstrate that like Fuquay, Garner is also not a big city.

To put it another way: jerseyman is as big a genius as Adam Sandler. Adam Sandler is not a genius. Get it now?

[monsoon]

Hmm. I notice that Charlotte is excluded in that Dixie map. Though we did once have a Dixie Pig BBQ here. LOL

[monsoon]

And, no offense intended jerseyman, but are you somehow mentally handicapped? ......

To put it another way: jerseyman is as big a genius as Adam Sandler. Adam Sandler is not a genius. Get it now?

I hope you get it that personal attacks such as this are not permitted on this forum. It is possible to get your point across without insulting others. Even a genius such as yourself should be able to comprehend this.

Read the rules!

[mcheiss]

Maybe we should kick out North Carolina too because it has the word north in it's name.

[Charleston native]

...And, no offense intended jerseyman, but are you somehow mentally handicapped? My point in alluding to pennsylvania and baltimore was precisely b/c they ARE NOT SOUTHERN and I was suggesting they have that in common with other places many consider to be in the south, like Texas and Arkansas. If I said, for example, Garner NC is about as big a city as Fuquay Varina, NC, I would not be making that comparison b/c Fuquay is a big town, it isn't; I'm trying to demonstrate that like Fuquay, Garner is also not a big city.

To put it another way: jerseyman is as big a genius as Adam Sandler. Adam Sandler is not a genius. Get it now?

Hmmm...thanks for some nasty comments. Not only were they off topic, but totally unnecessary. I think if you're trying to espouse an opinion, and somebody is not understanding you, you can nicely correct them or explain to them what you mean in a civilized manner. I sure hope you're not a teacher!

[sonofaque86]

Can someone define what southern "culture" is supposed to be beside the confederate argument

[bobliocatt]

Then lets define Midwestern, Western and Northeastern culture while we're at it. I'm sure we'll see that all of these regions are a little mixed then people give them credit for.

[waynehead]

The skins are awfully thin around here. But I apologize if anyone was offended.

[sonofaque86]

Dang. It's been 5 days since anyone replied...Guess they are trying to still figure out... lol

[depechecureguyorl]

Can someone define what southern "culture" is supposed to be beside the confederate argument

I'll give it a try - Although I'm from Orlando, my dad is from South Carolina and my mom is from Georgia, so I think I can give an educated guess:

Southern culture is about taking things at an even pace; never rushing oneself. It's about respecting your elders and saying things like "yes, sir" and "no, ma'm". It's going to church on Sunday morning and watching football and grilling steaks later that afternoon. In the South, we didn't have a "Civil War", we had a "War of Northern Agression". Not all Southern folks are racists nor are they associated with the KKK. Yes, there is a "good ole' boy" network in Sothern politics, but that network also abounds in the North...it's all still politics. Being Southern isn't about what city you live in, but about your attitude and how you take life. You don't have to eat collard greens and listen to country music to be a Southerner, but it sure helps if you know how to make 'em. Also, not all Southerners are Rednecks. IMO, the both are completely different entities. I know MANY Rednecks that have Northern roots...nothing is funnier than listening to someone from Boston try to sing "Devil Went Down to Georgia".

[Charleston native]

...Also, not all Southerners are Rednecks. IMO, the both are completely different entities. I know MANY Rednecks that have Northern roots...nothing is funnier than listening to someone from Boston try to sing "Devil Went Down to Georgia".

You know, when I was in the Air Force, I got to travel almost all over the United States, and I have to say this: no matter what state you live in, there are rednecks in every one of them! Even California, New York, and New Jersey have them, so no one can make generalizations by saying that all rednecks are "Southern". It just isn't true!