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Encore Condos

GoldRiver

By GoldRiver
in Nashville

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NewTowner Hamlet

NewTowner

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I don't think Jim Borders is taking any cues from Bristol Group. Encore is just another slightly altered version of what he's done all over the southeast for 3-4 years. As to ICON, I will be pleased (and surprised) if all the red brick shown up and down the building on the model and rendering doesn't turn into red stucco when all said and done. Bristol has a history of underperforming their renderings in a big way; see Bristol on Broadway.

This is dangerously, dangerously true.

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Hankster Town

Hankster

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I don't think Jim Borders is taking any cues from Bristol Group. Encore is just another slightly altered version of what he's done all over the southeast for 3-4 years. As to ICON, I will be pleased (and surprised) if all the red brick shown up and down the building on the model and rendering doesn't turn into red stucco when all said and done. Bristol has a history of underperforming their renderings in a big way; see Bristol on Broadway.

I like Bristol on Broadway a lot, and I have no doubt I'll love the Icon when they finish it as well. What's wrong with this?

tbobpicture1lrg.jpg

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Jeeper12 Hamlet

Jeeper12

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I like Bristol on Broadway a lot, and I have no doubt I'll love the Icon when they finish it as well. What's wrong with this?

tbobpicture1lrg.jpg

I saw you post a few months ago with an endearing comment about this project's design and I actually thought you were being sarcastic. Surely we can hope for more than this in our great city. I think most mid to upper grade apartments in Atlanta outperform this project by a wide margin. I don't necessarily fault the developer for being opportunistic and converting a cheap product to condos at good time but let's not pretend that this is some hopeful standard for urban living in Nashville.

I'm sure newtowner will tackle this more capably than I will but here are my primary gripes: cheap windows and railings, exposed flashing, faux venetian (??) design that has nothing to do with Nashville, no ground floor retail, terrible color selections, metal entry doors (in AC'd corridors), unbelievably boring floorplans (90's apts all the way), EIFS and or stucco everywhere except where there's cheap brick and fake river rock. IMO it's an awful hodge podge that will look 10 years old before its 2. It's also sited with no consideration whatsover that when the funeral home property to the north is redeveloped the majority of the units in the building are likely to be staring into only the dark shadows of a new parking garage.

Now I commend Bristol for their timing and I won't criticize them for gauging unsuspecting buyers. But surely we can hope for more from Nashville's developers than to repeat this unspectacular feat in other parts of our city.

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ATLBrain Burg

ATLBrain

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Very well stated, Jeeper. I remember when I saw this for the first time early last year, and I thought it was so cheap looking. At first glance it reminded me of the block apartments that popped up in uptown Dallas and midtown Atlanta as income producing filler for a few years until the property gets even more valuable and then redeveloped as something more lucrative. I know that Bristol originally built these as apartments (presumably with the same strategy). But obviously, the timing was right to sell them all.

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NewTowner Hamlet

NewTowner

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I saw you post a few months ago with an endearing comment about this project's design and I actually thought you were being sarcastic. Surely we can hope for more than this in our great city. I think most mid to upper grade apartments in Atlanta outperform this project by a wide margin. I don't necessarily fault the developer for being opportunistic and converting a cheap product to condos at good time but let's not pretend that this is some hopeful standard for urban living in Nashville.

I'm sure newtowner will tackle this more capably than I will but here are my primary gripes: cheap windows and railings, exposed flashing, faux venetian (??) design that has nothing to do with Nashville, no ground floor retail, terrible color selections, metal entry doors (in AC'd corridors), unbelievably boring floorplans (90's apts all the way), EIFS and or stucco everywhere except where there's cheap brick and fake river rock. IMO it's an awful hodge podge that will look 10 years old before its 2. It's also sited with no consideration whatsover that when the funeral home property to the north is redeveloped the majority of the units in the building are likely to be staring into only the dark shadows of a new parking garage.

Now I commend Bristol for their timing and I won't criticize them for gauging unsuspecting buyers. But surely we can hope for more from Nashville's developers than to repeat this unspectacular feat in other parts of our city.

I don't think I can do any better than this, Jeeper12. You are spot on. Bristol on Broadway is a cheap piece of poorly designed garbage, and our city took a step backwards the day it was finished. I hate to say it, but 'tis true.

I tend to judge buildings on three primary criteria: Strength, Usefulness, and Beauty.

The crap materials--particularly the fake stucco and goofy "Count Chocula" fake-ass River Rock--could be dismantled by an energetic child geared up with a couple of popsicle sticks--so the building cannot be deemed Strong.

The ground floor is massed like an accordian and totally devoid of helpful or profitable activities. So, the building can only be considered useful for the upper residents--the bottom floor is underutilized and stupid-looking, which means the building gets a medium-to-low score on Usefulness.

Beauty...ah, the elusive guest! She's hard to find, but I won't be looking here. I've seen Modernist Dentist Offices with more dignity.

So, at best, this building gets a 20 out of 100. I don't think there is a school in the universe that would give you a banana for those kind of numbers. This kind of building gives traditional architecture a bad name.

The Encore, as flawed as it will likely be, at least advertises durable materials and has designed ground-level activities for humans. I wish the thing would be set back on the north fa

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ATLBrain Burg

ATLBrain

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a building that ... will age like a dollop of sour cream under the Tuscan sun.

LOL... I think I have a little alarm in the deepest, darkest corner of my brain. It goes off when I see a hodgepodge of materials on the exterior of a building. It simply looks like the builder has cut costs to the quick, and usually that's the case. This and the proliferation of prestressed concrete exterior walls during the 1980s and 1990s (especially around West End) bug the heck out of me. It's my sense that Nashville could do much better in requiring better trim and exterior materials.

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Jeeper12 Hamlet

Jeeper12

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LOL... I think I have a little alarm in the deepest, darkest corner of my brain. It goes off when I see a hodgepodge of materials on the exterior of a building. It simply looks like the builder has cut costs to the quick, and usually that's the case. This and the proliferation of prestressed concrete exterior walls during the 1980s and 1990s (especially around West End) bug the heck out of me. It's my sense that Nashville could do much better in requiring better trim and exterior materials.

Although I loathe this building I don't think the solution is to legislate materials or design. Someone once said that "the people get the politicians they deserve". I think the buyers of this project are getting what they deserve and their poor judgment (paying almost $300/sf for $200/sf product) will ultimately come back to haunt them when they resell as higher quality alternative projects become available. Again, Bristol's timing with this project was near perfect. I hope they're a lot more inspiring with the ICON but I'm not holding my breath.

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bnaflyer Whistle-Stop

bnaflyer

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Not to beat a dead horse (or building), but in addition to being built of obviously substandard materials, and being completely banal from a design standpoint, the worst aspect of the Bristol development is its horrible massed bulk--it seems to be built on the wrong lot, and completely without regard for its context. Its hulking presence hovers over its neighbors literally and figuratively. A perfect example of what we should not be doing in Midtown.

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bnaflyer Whistle-Stop

bnaflyer

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Personally I like the BoB. I walk by it every weekend and it fits in just fine. Actually it looks MUCH better that most of the buildings that surround it.

I see this building a lot (I live not too far away) and I respectfully disagree. To me, it is a cheaply built eyesore. Are there other eyesores in the area? Sure. But they weren't built for millions of dollars and sold to people for $250 a square foot. And as has already been pointed out, Bristol will not age gracefully.

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Guest

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Cheaply built compared to what? The SSC sure but what other multi-unit residential building (urban or not) has been built in the area that earns your seal of approval? Many people are critical of the BoB, Viridian, Encore, Cumberland, now the Enclave (the Icon is being derided based on BoB) but what would you/they put up instead?

Is it a case where you believe the developer(s) overcharged and pocketed the windfall profits by bilking easily snowed condo buyers or does the developers need to even charge more $ per sq/ft to build the 'right' type of property?

Obviously I am a big believer in the market and as you have stated there are plenty of buyers for these units. As the Terazzo has seen the there is a $ per sq/ft upper-limit even with granite, tile, LEEDS and amenities that people will not touch because of price.

I do agree that it may not age gracefully but a little HOA assessment and they can reskin that sucker. : )

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Hankster Town

Hankster

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Personally I like the BoB. I walk by it every weekend and it fits in just fine. Actually it looks MUCH better that most of the buildings that surround it.

I knew there must be others on this forum that like Bristol on Broadway just like me. In fact, I wouldn't be surprised that more people like it than don't. How else could you explain why it sold out soooo fast.

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Onyte9 Whistle-Stop

Onyte9

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Cheaply built compared to what? The SSC sure but what other multi-unit residential building (urban or not) has been built in the area that earns your seal of approval? Many people are critical of the BoB, Viridian, Encore, Cumberland, now the Enclave (the Icon is being derided based on BoB) but what would you/they put up instead?

Is it a case where you believe the developer(s) overcharged and pocketed the windfall profits by bilking easily snowed condo buyers or does the developers need to even charge more $ per sq/ft to build the 'right' type of property?

Obviously I am a big believer in the market and as you have stated there are plenty of buyers for these units. As the Terazzo has seen the there is a $ per sq/ft upper-limit even with granite, tile, LEEDS and amenities that people will not touch because of price.

I do agree that it may not age gracefully but a little HOA assessment and they can reskin that sucker. : )

I totally agree. It seems like theres always a big group of people that critisize every single thing that gets built here. And they down talk such a wide variety of projects it makes me wonder what in the world do they want to see built. If we take away all the projects that everyone doesnt like our great city wouldnt be exploding anymore. It wouldnt be the next boom town or the next anything. It would be a bunch of suface lots, a bunch more than we have now. Maybe its just me, I love a wide variety of things. But if its a project that I'm not real sure about I tend to look at the overall picture of how it will take up another nasty parking lot and add to the density of our city. Like Lexy said, obviously someone likes em' they continue to sell out.

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NewTowner Hamlet

NewTowner

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I totally agree. It seems like theres always a big group of people that critisize every single thing that gets built here. And they down talk such a wide variety of projects it makes me wonder what in the world do they want to see built. If we take away all the projects that everyone doesnt like our great city wouldnt be exploding anymore. It wouldnt be the next boom town or the next anything. It would be a bunch of suface lots, a bunch more than we have now. Maybe its just me, I love a wide variety of things. But if its a project that I'm not real sure about I tend to look at the overall picture of how it will take up another nasty parking lot and add to the density of our city. Like Lexy said, obviously someone likes em' they continue to sell out.

You are all over-reacting. People have been saying, quite clearly, that the Encore looks to be a vastly superior building than the Bristol on Broadway--in fact, a great hope has been expressed from Borneo to Bangor that The Icon will be a superior building, as well, and not just as crappy as the BOB...the former certainly has a superior design on paper.

Whether or not you like the Bristol on Broadway's design (ha), there is no way you can argue that the building's materials are any good. And no, Nashville_Bound, we won't be able to sheath it in wallpaper or banana peels or T.G.I. Friday's menus or anything else. It's just cheap! It will eventually die. You can wax poetic on the glories and reason of market forces, and argue that anything erected and sold is worth erecting and buying until pigs fly, but I will always counter you with: don't forget that there is a good, solid market for Crystal Amphetamines, too! Does that make them a good idea? I find that an argument based on the merits of a subject in question is usually more effective than hopping around telling people not to argue at all.

What ever happened to Mick the Chop? Why does everyone always get so angry and indignant whenever a building is criticized?

The Encore (which is the subject of this thread, by the way) promises to be a vastly better building than the sodden Bristol. It will be made of materials that are built to last, and it will address the streets, more or less, that abut it. It will have a somewhat articulate bottom, middle, and top (and articulated with something other than applied styrofoam)--and it will have street-level retail. Sure, it presents an insolent and frankly moronic face to the esteemed Schermerhorn--sure, its height is undecorous and its massing uninspired. Sure, it lacks street-level detail. But will look a long way better than the Bristol on Broadway, and it won't be a built Lemon.

People get away with selling cheap crap all the time--cheap automobiles, cheap CD players, cheap coffee, cheap computers, cheap apartments...but that doesn't mean people don't make a boo-boo when they buy the stuff. Either the buyers of Bristol on Broadway didn't know what they were buying or they didn't care about the money they were losing. In the meantime, the general public got thoroughly dissed--and though I am not a communist, I do believe it is generally in a person's interests to show some regard for the body politic in which they are operating.

The Encore will represent a much more solid investment--if not a perfect investment in Nashville's urban Renaissance, than at least a decent investment for the people who plan on buying into it. Why? Because it will be of sufficient quality...

...just like the Viridian, the Signature, most of Germantown, most of East Nashville, the Adelicia, most of downtown's rehabs, the Mercury View Lofts, Edgehill Village (as far as I can tell), and even the ugly-ass Terrazzo.

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bnaflyer Whistle-Stop

bnaflyer

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Is it a case where you believe the developer(s) overcharged and pocketed the windfall profits by bilking easily snowed condo buyers

Yes. that's exactly what I believe. I believe that developers have an incentive to build cheap crap and sell it to gullible condo buyers. I also believe the market for these units will collapse in the near future (it probably already has). If you own one of five hundred cheaply built condos for sale, the only thing that will distinguish your condo from the other 499 is price.

I love the "market" too, but the reality is that most developers are not that concerned with how things are going to de doing in 10 years.

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Guest

Guest

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Well I guess we will just disagree because I know many of the condo buyers and find them all to be very astute. I do not think they have been bamboozled by the developers. The condo market has obviously not collapsed in Nashville, by any benchmark there has been significant appreciation of value over the last 2-3 years.

Neither of us can peek into the financials of BoB or other properties that have been derided on this board but I do not believe the profits have been out of range or you would be seeing a lot more activity as developers seek to cash in on the uneducated buyers with money to burn.

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franktown Hamlet

franktown

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This is really picky and I could be totally wrong, but is this building concrete on the outside? I looked at the website at the building subpage, then clicked on retail and it had a really close up picture of the street level retail, and it appeared to me that it was concrete on the outside. Is that true? I guess I had really hoped for more than concrete!

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barakat Burg

barakat

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^ My guess is that it will be stucco like Viridian, or concrete like Metropolis in Atlanta. It does look like concrete in the rendering. I think they should clad it in limestone, especially if they are going to tie the buliding's image to that of the Schermerhorn. Instead we get an 'industrial' [super cheap-o] exterior. That's fine in the gulch, but not here.

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