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bobliocatt

70 story hotel/condo tower proposed

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It's an interesting piece of news, but until they actually secure financing it may or may not be built. Nobody seems to be that excited about it, but it could be because of the holidays. I would like to see more details before I determine if this is good for the city.

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Assuming this project does come into fruition, does this mean Jacksonville is actually on its way to becoming an important along the same lines as Miami? As far as I know, Orlando & Tampa are way ahead of Jacksonville in terms of development in their downtown core, but it just seems that every month, there's bigger and better projects being proposed in Jacksonville, in particular, this "proposed 70-story" tower. I mean, I don't think Orlando and Tampa even have a tower anywhere near this height or floor count, with Maimi being the only other city in Florida with towers reaching this high if not more. The report does mention that the developers see Jacksonville as the next frontier in Florida --- what exactly do they mean by this? Does this mean that Jacksonville has the potential to perhaps become the next big thing in terms of construction behind Miami?

What do you guys think?

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well i think that who knows about the shipyards, meaning there is going to be a lone massive tall tower by itself near the sports complexes and nothing more...i am sketched out whether this project will even break ground or not, but it would be nice if it did

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I don't see how this could be bad for Jacksonville... even if it doesn't happen, or happen in a lesser manner.

Can you imagine a Westin-Peachtree (Atlanta)-type building rising right next to Alltel? Wow.

I know it won't look anything like the Westin, but a building of that height and stature would certainly put Jacksonville on the map.

Maybe they could build this thing 1 foot taller than the BoA tower in Charlotte to shut them up a little bit. :->

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After today's article, it sounds pretty strong and there has been a lot of discussion going on about it. Here's a summary of today's article.

1. This is the third major residential tower announced in the past month (51 story St Johns & 40 story The Vu are the others)

2. Building to include high-end restaurants, retail shops and a 14 story parking garage.

3. Units will range from $299k to $1.5 million.

4. Construction will begin summer 2007.

5. Tower to be complete by summer 2009.

6. Developer states he was attracted to Jax because he was discouraged by height restrictions in other Florida regions.

7. Developer attracted to site because its a block from Alltel Stadium, Veterans Arena and the Ballpark.

8. Site was purchased for $3.25 million.

link to article:

Banker's big idea: 70-story building

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Assuming this project does come into fruition, does this mean Jacksonville is actually on its way to becoming an important along the same lines as Miami? As far as I know, Orlando & Tampa are way ahead of Jacksonville in terms of development in their downtown core, but it just seems that every month, there's bigger and better projects being proposed in Jacksonville, in particular, this "proposed 70-story" tower. I mean, I don't think Orlando and Tampa even have a tower anywhere near this height or floor count, with Maimi being the only other city in Florida with towers reaching this high if not more. The report does mention that the developers see Jacksonville as the next frontier in Florida --- what exactly do they mean by this? Does this mean that Jacksonville has the potential to perhaps become the next big thing in terms of construction behind Miami?

What do you guys think?

Hi! I'm in the Orlando area and I'd like to weigh in, as I used to live in the Jax Beaches area and I love Jacksonville. I still miss it! It's good to see all this development in Florida as a whole. Downtown Orlando has a height restriction downtown which means for the time being we won't get anything over 450 feet, roughly, as far as buildings go. That height restriction may be challenged later on. There are about 8 or 10 highrises in Orlando that are proposed downtown currently,and pretty much all of them near the height restriction. Needless to say it's a source if frustration, but at least density won't be an issue anymore! :)

But that's not the case when it comes to the attractions area - there is no height limit, and indeed there is a project called Ballari that looks to be easily 50 stories at least. That and CityMark and another resort called the Blue Rose. Whether or not they get built is the question, like any other building proposed, but Orlando's tallest won't be in the downtown area - it will be to the south in the attractions area.

That being said, way to go Jax on this news! Trump Tower in Tampa, now this in Jax! Florida is a sweet place to live!

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The location is the only aspect that doesn't quite do it for me. Something like this should fill in a couple surface lots in the CBD versus a half a mile away in the sports district. Nonetheless this is a huge proposal for Jax and I can't wait to see more on it. If this thing is built the northbank CBD had better get to work to take back its status as the tallest.

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I saw a few questions here and on the other forums, but since I can't post on the other forums for some reason, I'll just trust one of you guys who frequents them all (lakelander, Dale, etc) to transpose this...

The developer said that the project would be "up to" 70 stories tall and up to 700 feet tall. The guy did not seem to be an architect and was confused when I asked about the ceiling heights of the floors. As you guys know, all projects like this frequently add or subtract floors as demand becomes more clear.

I'm looking at the CAD drawing now, and it's drawn as 9 feet, 4 inches floor to floor. I can't post the drawing, and it was too rough to end up in print, but if I can get my hands on Illustrator, I'll convert it to a jpg so you guys can see. It's a tall rectangular box with an arched top...hard to describe, but basically like a skateboard rink that goes across the top. The parking garage is directly adjacent to it and has a kind of twisted metal piece of art on three of its sides to mask it. I'm told that is still being designed. The garage is connected to the main building on the ground level (for the ballroom) and the 14th level.

Anyway, those are all the details that could have been printed but that we determined only readers like you would appreciate. Hope it clears some things up.

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There is no way that the floors are just 9'4" each... unless we are talking about actual hieghts of the cielings rather than floors. This would be quite a significant difference, because there would need to be, at minimum 1'6" to 2' between floors for ventilation, piping, lighting, etc. On a 70-floor building, that's an additional 100-150 feet to the height, and it sounds much more reasonable to believe.

If the building "floor-to-floor" is only 9'4", then that means an average cieling height less than 8'. No way. I'm thinking that an average cieling height of 9 feet is much more realistic, with higher-end units at 10-12 feet. I spent several years working in mid & hi-rise resedential development, and 8 foot cielings are a thing of the past for even the mid-ranged units.

I would think that a realistic floor-to-floor height would be around 10-11 feet on the lower floors, and 12-13 feet on the more luxurious floors. This would put the overall building height (assuming 70 floors) at somewhere between 810-850 feet.

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Indeed. There is probably a minimum of 12ft between the floors as it costs less to stick with a standard height. Total height might be quite high once you count a crown or spires that may be added to the structure.

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I'm just telling you guys about the CAD that I was sent by the developer...we can argue about what would "make sense" all we want, but for now, this is the way the architect has the building drawn. (and I've had other architects help me read the CAD)

There are some height variances on levels with amenities...i.e. the ground level, 14th level, and top level.

Of course, the floor count and height will probably change before the building is built in light of changing market conditions etc.

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Also the lower floors containing the lobby, restuarants, retail space, and recording studio, would have ceiling heights higher than what the residential units would be. I'd expect the first floor would probably be at least 15 feet, from slab to slab.

Btw, Jlight, if you wish, you can email me that CAD file and I can convert it into a presentable jpeg and upload for the forumers to see.

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Btw, for those not familiar with the site, its the warehouse with "Noland" written on the side of it. I'm pretty interested to see the layout, especially since it seems like the garage will be separate from the tower.

nolandbuilding1qf.jpg

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Sure, the board says I can't use PM. Maybe it's a new member restriction? Can you just e-mail me your e-mail address at joe.light at jacksonville.com?

Thanks.

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I don't want to sound all negative, but I'm not all that excited about this project. Does anyone else see this as a RenCen type tower for Jacksonville? Not that 70 stories is too tall, it's just so far removed from downtown. I'd much rather have 5 midrises in the CBD than a mammoth tower in the middle of nowhere.

However, I had a thought: this huge tower has the potential to become a Skyway destination! If the developer would include a Skyway station on the property or IN the building, we could see a line running from Central station down Bay Street with stops in between. Oh happy day...

Other than that, this tower doesn't really do much for downtown. It'll just look flippin' sweet from all points across the city!

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The location is the only aspect that doesn't quite do it for me. Something like this should fill in a couple surface lots in the CBD versus a half a mile away in the sports district. Nonetheless this is a huge proposal for Jax and I can't wait to see more on it. If this thing is built the northbank CBD had better get to work to take back its status as the tallest.

I agree. It would be really nice to see this going up in the CBD instead of out in the middle of high-rise no-where at the sports complex. But maybe when St. Johns Point goes up it will have density of its own over there...Like a third skyline to add to the Northbank and Southbank. All I can say is I'm glad we're getting it...70 stories...whew! :yahoo:

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I don't want to sound all negative, but I'm not all that excited about this project. Does anyone else see this as a RenCen type tower for Jacksonville? Not that 70 stories is too tall, it's just so far removed from downtown. I'd much rather have 5 midrises in the CBD than a mammoth tower in the middle of nowhere.

However, I had a thought: this huge tower has the potential to become a Skyway destination! If the developer would include a Skyway station on the property or IN the building, we could see a line running from Central station down Bay Street with stops in between. Oh happy day...

Other than that, this tower doesn't really do much for downtown. It'll just look flippin' sweet from all points across the city!

I disagree. Once the Shipyards and St. Johns Pointe projects get underway, this tower will be sitting in the heart of a third skyline that will have at least 4 towers over 30 stories tall. Its also a block away from the Arena, minor league ballpark & Alltel Stadium and Metropolitan Park. With its associated restaurants and bars at street level, you have the making of another major urban entertainment destination. The more the merrier. In about 5 years our skyline will be best viewed from the East and West. However, like you said, hopefully these developments will encourage JTA to extend the Skyway to the stadiums to finally make the system what it was envisioned to be.....a downtown people mover connecting the major destination points.

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I agree this would be more exciting if it were in the CBD. As it is, it might give the skyline a real distorted view which is what happened in Detriot as mentioned above.

There is another article about it at this link. Something about this deal doesn't sound exactly right and I will be interested to see how it progresses. I would rather see Jacksonville build more for city living, than something that looks like it belongs on miami beach. The architect that has been named for the project mostly builds condos in S. Fla. and I don't want to see Jax converted to the same type of situation.

Here are some examples.

rendering-perspective.jpg

OceanFour.jpg

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333%20Las%20Olas%20Way.jpg

The architect also designed downtown Fort Lauderdale's Las Olas Riverhouse, which is one of the better looking condo towers I've seen built recently. Once again, this tower won't be sitting in the middle of no where. It will be an icon tower, in the heart of a third skyline district.

Don't forget, its across the street and in the middle of these two developments:

St. Johns Pointe

89159_400.jpg

Shipyards

DSCN6069.jpg

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