North Georgia Secession

[j.midtown]

I've long said that once you're five miles (probably 10 now) miles outside the perimeter, Georgia is the same as Alabama.

[PJA]

There's a word for a Georgia without metro Atlanta.. it's called Mississippi.

[Pillsbury]

Agreed. Georgia without Atlanta would be more like South Carolina...and that's not a bad thing at all!

[gah]

Very true. There is nothing wrong with South Carolina. You know, we're not all a bunch of hicks living outside I-285. And I've been to Alabama, and yeah, it's pretty much the same as Georgia (and South Carolina, North Carolina, et al); there isn't some special line that you cross when you enter into Alabama.

[Lady Celeste]

I hate to beat a dead horses buuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuutttttttt......

I appears that some local politicians are starting to feel like I feel. Local county and city officials took a trip recently to see what works in Denver. One of the things that struck them was the fact that the Denver Metro area works similar to the tax district I proposed for the Atlanta metro. This is instrumental in helping Denver expand its already successful light rail system. I have said time and time again that the Atlanta metro area needs to form a tax district where 80% of the taxes collected in this area stays in the area. If the statehouse (oddly enough located in Atlanta) can't see the benefits of state sponsored transportation initiatives then the metro Atlanta area should form it's own district to address these matters.

Let me be rightly clear...I could care less how someone from New York City might feel that Atlanta is small. I could care less if someone from Atlanta might feel Macon is but a blip on the map. This is not about a feeling of superiority but rather a spirit of competiveness and quality of life issues....sprinkled in with environmental concerns. I refuse to watch the metro area drown in it's own success without at least attempting to swim. If noone from the boat (state) will throw us a life jacket then by golly we should swim on our own. Sam Olens of Cobb County is about as angry as I am when it comes to the inaction of state leaders. The last session of the house/sentate was an absolute slap in the face to the over 5 million people that call this region home. We need action today.

What someone from NYC feels about Atlanta does not help me when I am trying to navigate this city. It's also not going to help a corporation decide to move thousands of jobs here. It will not help us remain competitive in keeping the thousands of college students here who are educated by local colleges and universities. I will be joining Mr. Olens (in whatever capacity) in his call for other metro area officials to put the heat on the state officials who refuse to act. The longer we wait the further we fall behind. It's now that we plan for the future. I refuse to sit here and allow Atlanta to lose it's luster to other cities of the south and nationally. We, collectively as a metro, must remain competitive and attractive to corporations and businesses. If we can't work with a forward thinking state, then the jurisdictions of the metro should work together, as a self taxed district. Allow us to make our own decisions that work best for us. This way we can allocate our own tax dollars to commuter rail, suburb to suburb BRT/LTR and to the expansion or MARTA. Maybe our powerful local officials are finally starting to see the light[rail]. The billions of dollars pumped into this state by the metro Atlanta economy can be no longer schoffed at and made light of.

I say form a self taxing district similar to Buckhead, Perimeter Center and the Platinum Triangle. It can be the 22 county greater area or the 13 county ARC. My main goal is to keep the region...and through it...the state a competive entity for jobs while maintaining a quality of life that was the reason for over 3+ million people moving to the metro area in my lifetime.

Here are some recent articles on Sam Olens and his views on transportation:

"Top Leaders Stonewalled Transportation Measures"

ARC's Recent Trip to Denver

[teshadoh]

You must be referring to the special sales tax districts. We have 3 separate districts that cover various areas of Denver metro that support transit, sports, & arts. The funding is fair, spread through out the metro & particularly helps support transit system (rather than 2 counties RTD covers parts of 8 counties - keep in mind 2 counties are cities & unlike GA we have special districts that do not align with county or city boundaries). There are a number of other states where sales tax is used to fund transit regionally - UT, WA, NY, TX, IL, OH for example all have sales tax transit districts that cover large areas.

But don't just stop at sales tax - Oregon actually uses payroll taxes to help support transit & of course a variety of states use property tax to support transit.

Regarding using creative taxing mechanisms, GA just like the majority of the southeast is really far behind the game field. Of course we know why - most southerners are flat out opposed to taxes, of course we know now Atlantans are more open about it now (helps that non-southerners have settled there). For one - GA just in the past few years allowed city governments to collect sales tax, city based sales tax is common in the majority of the US. In fact in several states entities as small as shopping centers can collect sales tax to reimburse development projects & infrastructure improvements.

Another thing is property tax - most of the US does use property tax exclusively for city & county governments as well as school districts & fire districts such as GA. But several states allow numerous government agencies & developments to receive property tax based on special districts.

Using creative taxing doesn't have to mean higher taxes for all - it just means taxing those who would directly benefit from the services. Unfortunately as I've gripped for years, Georgia state government is an embarrassment & the elected officials are too incompetent to do what is right & act rationally. It is a broken system that insists that the entire state should be managed equally, because the thought of managing the state based on different priorities sounds too much like Atlanta would get preferential treatment to rural yokels.

[Lady Celeste]

But don't just stop at sales tax - Oregon actually uses payroll taxes to help support transit & of course a variety of states use property tax to support transit.

[j.midtown]

Your post was very informative and shows exactly how it can be done. I'm glad you chimed in specifically because you have first hand knowledge of how this system works. Metro Atlanta would not be setting a precedent but merely ensuring that it remains competitive. I agree with your quote above. This special district should not only collect sales tax, but property and payroll tax. This will be the only way we can forge ahead with a competitive and viable metro Atlanta region.

[Lady Celeste]

As the old saying goes, the squeaky wheel gets the oil.

I know this is an unpopular topic for many however until attitudes change and results start to occur, I am going to squeak and squeak. I am passionately on board with all who champion mutil-mode transporation options (roads, LRT, BRT, commuter rail, bike paths) in Greater Atlanta. Apparently, others are starting to grumble as well. Namely, the very powerful corporate community. Yay!!!! Letter writing does pay off. I will continue to champion greater Atlanta's cause behind the scenes. I hope there are other who will join in writing letters and making phone calls to people of power.

Reading Monday's paper at the lake, I was pleased to see another article about others who feel that the metro region is being ignored. It was almost as pleasant as realizing that the lake was 1 foot above full pool...but I digress.

Read the article here:

POLITICAL INSIDER: A state of corporate discontent

From my current choice for the next govenor of Georgia, Sam Olens:

Then there's the "absolute lunacy" of the attitude owned by many in the state Capitol who think that if metro Atlanta is allowed to choke on its own congestion, then jobs will flow to rural areas.

"There's an economic development strategy for everyone. It doesn't pit one section of the state against another," Olens said. Bring corporate jobs to Atlanta, he said, and many of those same companies will move their plants to rural Georgia.

[teshadoh]

I'm certainly not a republican - but Sam Olens would at least be the first start in over 50 years ago when the state & the city both understood the necessity of strong relationship. Olens is at least not a dixiecrat-turned-republican like the majority of the republicans in Georgia - he's a 'real' republican, not a fake one like the bubba who is in office.

And I haven't thought about it before - but that is one of the big problems, the republicans in the capitol are largely just anti-city pro-farm dixiecrats who are not necessarily pro-business unless it means more chicken plants in their home county. There has yet to be a party that truly represents the business' interest in GA - which typically I wouldn't care about, but upon reflection it has truly hampered the region's growth. The belief that businesses will continue to flock to Atlanta just because it's Atlanta is no longer valid - the state has to help Atlanta help themselves, by fixing the mess that the state has prevented the metro from fixing.

Sam Olens might be the best friend Atlanta could ever get.

[Martinman]

I've never thought about it that way either but I think you nailed. I've often wondered why Purdue and some of the others don't have a sense of urgency about Atlanta's traffic if for only the fact that their republican constituents probably make up the majority of those stuck in traffic.

[andremurra]

I dont think minds are going to change on this topic though. The way most Georgians see it is that the state has historically invested tons of money into the capitol city, and in many ways, those monies are benefiting the state. However, I think a lot of Georgians (not just in the south) feel that Atlanta has misspent most of those monies - either spent the money to only benefit the city itself or spent the money in irresponsible ways that did not consider the long-term effects. In other words, the ROI is percieved to be disappointly lower than its potential.

Today, instead of reaping the gains we could be reaping if Atlanta had spent the investments in considerate ways that would provide solutions rather than create slews of new problems, then we would be more trusting of investing in the city itself. I personally love Atlanta, and want to see Atlanta redesigned and rebuilt as a true urban station of the South, or "Georgia's Inland Dubai" of sorts. However, I also understand why many Georgians do not trust Atlanta's decision-making skills. It especially doesnt help that most Atlantans are self-righteous, pretending as if they got to where they are from their own greatness alone.

I am an advocate for Georgia. And historically, Atlantans dont care about the well-being any OTP Georgian. And we do resent that. I personally resent it because my hometown is decades behind the transportation infrastructure that it deserves, while metropolitan Atlanta continues building more and more unnecessary roads that only create more sprawl. In other words, we would like to see results, and were just not seeing them. Do I think Atlanta is great? Of course I do, I love Atlanta, but it is what it is. Its a huge slew of problems with a beautiful skyline, a wonderful gay community, and visionaries seekings to change the direction of the city. Atlanta is not perfect. It is not even close. I think we need to look at Georgia collectively and start making decisions based on all of Georgia's assets, future and present. A lot of those assets are OTP, and many of them are ITP. Im not taking a side here, Im sticking to the middleroad, and the middleroad is not going to give Atlanta its own tax district. We're going to have to figure out a way end poor planning practices and implement strategic planning practices with one goal in mind. Georgia.

[Lady Celeste]

One last time. When we refer to Atlanta, we mean the Greater Atlanta area or at least Metro Atlanta. We are not referring only to the city of Atlanta. I had to restate that because the above post shows that there is some confusion as to who is doing the grumbling now. The business community and suburban county commissioners are not looking out for the city of Atlanta...they are looking out for the best interest of metro Atlanta.

Now that I have that out of the way........

The above comment is exactly the reason why I feel metro Atlanta should become it's own self taxing, self improving district. Atlanta is misspending money? What money? Who's money? Is it taxpayers of an individual county or the state? It's the blatant misunderstanding of government and how they work in this state that is the driving force behind this self taxing district. I would go as far as to say that if those outlying areas were better wards of their own money then shouldn't they be in better shape to compete with Atlanta? Greater Atlanta contributes a vast majority of the taxes generated to this state therefore is should get at least a bigger slice of the services. If this is not fair then my idea seems to be the most logical. If someone in some far south city feels that "Atlanta" is misusing the money then they should also join with me in trying to get metro Atlanta to form its own tax generating district. This way all the money collected in the 22 county area can be used to fund improvements in the 22 county area. Someone in "Faraway" County would never have to worry about how this district "misuses" the money.

I would also like to add that road building in metro Atlanta has absolutely nothing to do with monies spent from elsewhere unless it's a GADOT project. If there is an issue with the GADOT and how they spend tax dollars to build roads in metro Atlanta then that issue needs to be taken up on the state level. It has absolutely nothing to do with "Atlanta" and how they misuse money. Most county funded road improvements are done by the county themselves. What does someone from out-state Georgia care how Cobb County decides to expand Windy Hill Road?

Again, the above post probably did not read most of what the past few posters have written. He or She is referring to inside and outside the perimeter. We are not talking about ITP ir OTP. MARTA goes outside the perimeter. When we refer to Atlanta we are not talking about the city, we are talking about the greater Atlanta area. That is who should break away and form it's own district. Many of us in greater Atlanta know why the state refuses to help the city of Atlanta. That doesn't take much though. Sam Olens is from Cobb County...a vast majority if it is OTP...so that argument is no longer holding water. Greater Atlanta is now coming together to work collectively to solve our problems. We could do even more if we keep most of our tax dollars within this district. Sixty or greater of Georgia's population live within the CSA of Atlanta, there should be more help from the state.

When we speak of Atlanta and secession, we are talking about the CSA, not the city and it's 132 sq miles. This is not about skyscrapers and Dubai. This is about quality of life. The suburbs and the city are intermingled and we can no longer pit one against the other. They are now coming together. MARTA is not going into Cobb...although only one stop. Gwinnett will soon take a straw vote on if rail is to come into the county. The Greater Atlanta area is now starting to work together and it's time for the state to get on board.

I am not advocating Greater Atlanta become the 51st state. I am saying that if people outside the 22 county Greater Atlanta area have an issue with helping Greater Atlanta (I have to keep saying that because although people may read those words, they still seem to want to think only the city) then it should take the money collected here and make it's own improvements. Why would someone from outside this district object to that.......unless they realize that all the money generated in this district would stay there...thereby starving other areas of funds. Why should they care though...they can use their money the way they see fit and Greater Atlanta can use their money the way they seem fit. Seems like a win-win to me.

[Pillsbury]

I think most people realize that Atlanta is the engine that drives this state. And I'm sure that Atlanta contributes more than it receives. However, I think some people feel that Atlanta and northern Georgia appear to be growing at a fast clip, while much of the rest of the state (with the exception of the coastal area) languishes. They see money invested into northern Georgia, and wish that money could be invested into southern Georgia.

Personally, I'm a bit disinterested on this whole thing because I live in Augusta, and as the lady at the Dick's Sporting Goods Store in Charleston told me, "That's not Georgia" and as the arrogant man at the Atlanta Journal-Constitution explained in an email to a friend of mine explaining why it, the largest newspaper in the South, could no longer deliver its newspaper to Augusta because of rising fuel costs and the fact that Augusta seemed to have interests which were different from Georgia. So I guess we're South Carolina after all.

[teshadoh]

^ Interesting comment, but considering Augusta's early prosperity was largely due to it being a river port for SC cotton plantations - Augusta is one of those state line cities that is almost equally SC as it is GA. Not to mention you can get mustard-based BBQ in Augusta

[Pillsbury]

^ mmmmm, mustard-based barbecue.......

I would support metro Atlanta creating a special tax district if it would not disrupt the amount of money flowing to the rural areas of this state.

[teshadoh]

It wouldn't at all - tax monies collected would be additional funds to use at the taxing jurisdiction's discretion. No one likes paying more money for gas or a toaster oven, but I think a 1 cent sales tax district to cover the ARC planning area is needed.

[Martinman]

There was an article in the paper recently on how the Denver metro can do a regional sales tax without having to get approval from the state legislature.

[teshadoh]

That is correct - actually there are numerous states where that is practiced. Local voters still have to approve it, but most effectively it allows jurisdictions to draw their own lines. In the case of Gwinnett County, it's idiotic for the entire county to vote for it when only the I-85 corridor really can support MARTA service, or alternately MARTA can only effectively support the I-85 corridor. As is the case in Colorado, you don't have to follow county or city boundaries to determine the taxing jurisdiction.

[xivinrah]

I said what I did because I know the rest of the state does not care for Atlanta. They already feel that Atlanta gets too much money and attention, etc. I also state this with little knowledge of Georgia politics.

Atlanta is in a tough spot because it is a primate city, and it dominates the Georgia economy, but there is still that other half of Georgia to think about. These people shouldn't be ignored just because Atlanta is so much larger. I think that as the leader in the state, its up to Atlanta and its surrounds to work with the other representatives in the other parts of the state to achieve solutions to the problems. Secession is not the answer. Thats just cutting of your nose to spite your face.

[Pillsbury]

^ I have to stick up for Augusta on the tree department though. We have so many trees intown that during thunderstorms people are more afraid of what the trees will do than anything else.

[Savboy08]

^ I have to stick up for Augusta on the tree department though. We have so many trees intown that during thunderstorms people are more afraid of what the trees will do than anything else.

[andremurra]

I dont mind Atlanta metro having its own tax allocation district as long as its "additional" taxes like a sales tax or something. I have nothing against that. Most of the major projects in Statesboro are funded through our sales tax which generates about $20-million a year.