West End Summit update

[TennMan]

This is going to be a first class building. They are going after a major tenant for the office tower, which they need to get the financing, but a new development (14 floors office, 8 floors garage in Sobro) has come in and is going after the same tenant. I was not told the name of the prospective tenant only that Palmer is trying hard to land these guys.

[smeagolsfree]

Give us some info on this development in SoBro. William has a way of digging and finding out what is happening. My Thought is that this is the rumored tower going at the foot of the Shelby St Bridge. I think it may have something to do with Bass Berry and Sims. The company is out of Atlanta.

[cdub]

This is going to be a first class building."

Has anyone seen the renderings of this, of particular the site plan? If not, here's a link:

West End Summit

Feels very suburban, Loew's Vandy-esque. I really wish it would have addressed the street corridor more or at least created a civic plaza/ space instead of the McDonald's drop-off in the front. The 'park', for lack of a better term, feels more like an isolated island than integrated into the urban fabric. The 2nd building to the west feels like it should be in Maryland farms or any other suburban office park based on its site layout.

[Guest]

I believe those are dated renderings. Here is a link to the most recent images. They are much improved.

WES

[cdub]

I believe those are dated renderings. Here is a link to the most recent images. They are much improved.

I wouldn't call that improved. For an urban project to devote so much space to the automobile isn't a good thing. Again, would be better in Maryland Farms than on West End.

[Jeeper12]

I believe those are dated renderings. Here is a link to the most recent images. They are much improved.

WES

I think the renderings and design are decent but there is no getting around the fact that he's working with a B- or C+ site. I can think of 5 or 6 sites between Vandy and Downtown that are more ripe for the development of class a product. IMO they won't land a sizable tenant without a high end hotel. And (assuming a Westin or Intercontental would green light the site) high-end hotels just aren't getting built these days because of the disconnect between rates and cost..unless of course they can market a condo or residence component but I don't see that occuring in Nashville, especially at that location. My humble prediction is that 2-3 years from now this board will still be wondering what Alex will do next while Eakin and others forge ahead meeting the limited demand that this Nashville submarket will require.

[Guest]

I wouldn't call that improved. For an urban project to devote so much space to the automobile isn't a good thing. Again, would be better in Maryland Farms than on West End.

I guess that depends on A Palmers need to serve his potential market. In that case it would be business tenants, condo owners and hotel patrons. I am sure he has done the research and the inclusion of the 'motor court' is not a attempt to disrupt the urban fabric, such that it is on West End. Nashville is not NYC, it is not Chicago, it is not DC. The reality is that the automobile will be the primary means of transportation for the people using the facilities.

[cdub]

The reality is that the automobile will be the primary means of transportation for the people using the facilities.

Yes, let's not hope for and demand better. Regardless of the automobile-dependence we face, it still does not warrant a cul-de-sac in the almost heart of downtown. They've got a parking garage in back for cars, leave the front to pedestrians and let the facades define the streetscape.

[bzorch]

And the automobile will continue to be the dominant building type if we continue to build as we always have. Why can

[Guest]

Guys we can dream the dream, hell even try to work towards achieving the urban dream. Believe me I am a proponent of urban living, but unlike the cities referenced we have no mass transportation prospects in the near or long term in Nashville so the auto will reign. It does not mean we can not mitigate its impact but in this case I do think that the WES design is MUCH improved over the old renderings. The buildings does address the sidewalk and motor court is minimized. BTW I am sure you know this but many large residential building in NYC and I am sure other cities have motor courts.

http://www.onebeaconcourt.com/flashcontent/

[cdub]

http://www.onebeaconcourt.com/flashcontent/

You can't be trying to compare the two of those. Yes other cities have motor courts, and that is what they are, small courts (more like a courtyard). Look again at the WES site plan and you'll see that is a cul-de-sac where only one building really addresses the street. Look close at the Beacon property and the entrance to the court is very minimal, almost unnoticeable as the facade of the building is interrupted for only a short segment and the entire building addresses the street. WES looks like a parking lot.

[Guest]

So it is not the nod to the auto that you question with the WES but the scale? West End is not d'town. And as stated Nashville is not NYC. My point was that in my judgement the new WES design is an improvement, though imperfect. By your standard I would venture there are very few non CBD buildings which you hold in high regard.

[Guest]

I think the renderings and design are decent but there is no getting around the fact that he's working with a B- or C+ site. I can think of 5 or 6 sites between Vandy and Downtown that are more ripe for the development of class a product. IMO they won't land a sizable tenant without a high end hotel. And (assuming a Westin or Intercontental would green light the site) high-end hotels just aren't getting built these days because of the disconnect between rates and cost..unless of course they can market a condo or residence component but I don't see that occuring in Nashville, especially at that location. My humble prediction is that 2-3 years from now this board will still be wondering what Alex will do next while Eakin and others forge ahead meeting the limited demand that this Nashville submarket will require.

Why do you think the site is second rate? From a layman's view it seems prime. It is at the nexus of Broadway and West End, and at the gateway to d'town. And the unless he has infinite funds and patience I venture that he is ready to stop bleeding money on this project and start recouping his investment.

I can not afford what I think the condos will cost but I would love to live in a building with all the amenities of a 4-star hotel.

Anyway I hope you are wrong because I am ready for this sucker to break ground.

[cdub]

So it is not the nod to the auto that you question with the WES but the scale? West End is not d'town. And as stated Nashville is not NYC. My point was that in my judgement the new WES design is an improvement, though imperfect. By your standard I would venture there are very few non CBD buildings which you hold in high regard.

No, I was questioning your reference that motor courts exist in other cities and the one at WES is similar to those when in fact it is not.

There are buildings that are non-CBD that I would consider attractive, but relates to architecture primarily and not the development of the site. For instance, I love the historic apartment buildings like the one @ West End/ 31st (there's some in the Music Row area as well). Those structures are also not in an urban CBD area yet relate to the street without providing an open expanse primarily dedicated to vehicular circulation. Related, look at the Brownstones at 31st. I like the style, but I feel they are set back just a bit too far from sidewalk to really interact with the street in the same way their historic predecessors did. The development of the site has as much to do with the success of a building as the architecture, though I feel the architecture is lacking here as well. As mentioned before in other threads, there's only so much you can do with a high rise and glass before it gets boring (sorry for the tangent).

Since West End is not downtown, it's okay for Walmart to come in using it's current configuration? After all it's not downtown. It just seems wrong to apply suburban standards to an urban site, regardless if its in the CBD.

[Hankster]

I think the renderings and design are decent but there is no getting around the fact that he's working with a B- or C+ site. I can think of 5 or 6 sites between Vandy and Downtown that are more ripe for the development of class a product. IMO they won't land a sizable tenant without a high end hotel. And (assuming a Westin or Intercontental would green light the site) high-end hotels just aren't getting built these days because of the disconnect between rates and cost..unless of course they can market a condo or residence component but I don't see that occuring in Nashville, especially at that location. My humble prediction is that 2-3 years from now this board will still be wondering what Alex will do next while Eakin and others forge ahead meeting the limited demand that this Nashville submarket will require.

I think you're going to be surprised when you here an annoucement not too long from now. The word is that they've got Intercontinental Hotels signed and sealed for the hotel component of this project.

[doormanpoet]

I for one am getting pretty preturbed with Nashville developers talking about projects for years that never materialize. I hope Palmer gets this done, but he is fast losing my interest! Richard Fletcher still wants to build NCC2 after almost 20 years! Richard said the economics are challenging, yet John Eakin is now on his second midrise in four years!

Although I really like Tony G, Crossland, John Eakin, and others for getting things done; I am ready for Nashville to really get aggressive like Charlotte, Atlanta, Orlando, Jacksonville, San Diego, and other cities which actually stop talking and start doing!

Nashville is notoriously slow. Our schools in Tennessee rank 48. We are a pro smoking, pro tobacco state where other states are banning smoking in public places for all the health risks. Our state legislature reps. like Thelma Harper are against any tobacco regulation. 33% of our high school students drop out and 33% of working adults in Chattanooga are illiterate according to a Tennessean article.

When is Tennessee and Nashville going to step up?

When is Bob Clement going to get us the federal courthouse?

Someone from Memphis told me the Vue on Main has made no progress.

When is Palmer going to grow some gonads and get out in the community like Tony G. and actually meet and greet some people?

Okay, enough of my rant, but Nashville and Do Nothing Purcell need to get this CC done and they need to tell Palmer to put up or shut up! Enough is enough.

[chris holman]

I for one am getting pretty preturbed with Nashville developers talking about projects for years that never materialize. I hope Palmer gets this done, but he is fast losing my interest! Richard Fletcher still wants to build NCC2 after almost 20 years! Richard said the economics are challenging, yet John Eakin is now on his second midrise in four years!

Although I really like Tony G, Crossland, John Eakin, and others for getting things done; I am ready for Nashville to really get aggressive like Charlotte, Atlanta, Orlando, Jacksonville, San Diego, and other cities which actually stop talking and start doing!

Nashville is notoriously slow. Our schools in Tennessee rank 48. We are a pro smoking, pro tobacco state where other states are banning smoking in public places for all the health risks. Our state legislature reps. like Thelma Harper are against any tobacco regulation. 33% of our high school students drop out and 33% of working adults in Chattanooga are illiterate according to a Tennessean article.

When is Tennessee and Nashville going to step up?

When is Bob Clement going to get us the federal courthouse?

Someone from Memphis told me the Vue on Main has made no progress.

When is Palmer going to grow some gonads and get out in the community like Tony G. and actually meet and greet some people?

Okay, enough of my rant, but Nashville and Do Nothing Purcell need to get this CC done and they need to tell Palmer to put up or shut up! Enough is enough.

I feel the same way. This project is taking forever to materialize and get out of the ground.

[fieldmarshaldj]

When is Bob Clement going to get us the federal courthouse?

Doncha mean Jim Cooper ?

Bob ain't been our Rep. in 3 1/2 years, yet he almost still seems like he is. I don't recall a U.S. Rep. of ours being as dead non-existent as Cooper since the months after Clifford Allen bought the farm in '78.

[downtown cliff]

Doncha mean Jim Cooper ?

Bob ain't been our Rep. in 3 1/2 years, yet he almost still seems like he is. I don't recall a U.S. Rep. of ours being as dead non-existent as Cooper since the months after Clifford Allen bought the farm in '78.

I've spoken with Rep. Cooper a few times. He's actually very bright and seems pretty plugged in, though a bit conservative. He is real involved in national defense and budget deficit issues. I'm not as well read on his involvement with local issues, but he was heading to a gathering with the Nashville historical folks for some big project the last time I saw him. At least he hasn't given us a "landport" that sits unused beside a currently non-existent bridge. Not that it was used much before the bridge had to be replaced. I'm just saying that action is good, but a little caution doesn't hurt.

And, doorman, thank goodness CC2 has never been built. I kind of like CC1, as sculpture, but there is still a chance that that property can be used for something a little more street friendly.

[ATLBrain]

I've spoken with Rep. Cooper a few times. He's actually very bright and seems pretty plugged in, though a bit conservative.

Um, Cliff. I have met Jim Cooper a couple of times. I've also somewhat followed his career albeit from a distance. Let me just say that he is anything but conservative. If you mean reserved, then yes, I'll agree with that. As far as being plugged-in to issues, that may be so. However, he does not have a very impressive record as a representative from Nashville.

[Guest]

Maybe he meant conservative compared to some other Democrats.

[fieldmarshaldj]

I've spoken with Rep. Cooper a few times. He's actually very bright and seems pretty plugged in, though a bit conservative.

I almost choked on my Cheerios when I read that. The Jim Cooper that was the Congressman from the 4th District is a far different man than he is as our 5th District Rep. The Cooper of the 4th was a member of the majority party, high-profile, and somewhat moderate (he was never "Conservative" by any stretch of the imagination, unless Fidel Castro is a "sensible liberal"), and a bit of a go-getter. The Cooper of the 5th is an embittered member of the minority, low-profile, and quite liberal (his record in 2004 was the most leftist of the entire TN Congressional delegation, even more so than Junior Ford, though improved, becoming slightly more moderate in '05). I could count on one hand how many times I've seen him appear on the news in the past year. I never thought I'd miss Bob Clement, that was until Cooper succeeded him.

And, doorman, thank goodness CC2 has never been built. I kind of like CC1, as sculpture, but there is still a chance that that property can be used for something a little more street friendly.

Oh, no ! I've been wanting to see CC2 constructed since it was announced. CC1 always looks like it is missing something, it's bigger twin sister... the awkwardness of the front of the building gives testament to that.

Maybe he meant conservative compared to some other Democrats.

True, he's not hit Cynthia "Moonbat" McKinney-land, yet...

[downtown cliff]

True, he's not hit Cynthia "Moonbat" McKinney-land, yet...

These days, any member of Congress who is not under indictment or investigations seems to be a leg up.

[fieldmarshaldj]

These days, any member of Congress who is not under indictment or investigations seems to be a leg up.

Well, if ole Jimbo starts wearing his hair like Carrot-Top, we should start to worry.

[doormanpoet]

Oh! by CC I meant convention center, but yes per Richard Fletchers email to me, they still want to do NCC2.

BTW, on www.GSA.gov, it mentions Bob Clement as being the first proponent of the federal courthouse of which he went to bat for when he was still in office.