Should portion of Garfield Park go to the Salvation Army

[Rizzo]

According to Susan Lovell, Salvation Army Board Member, "Of course some people would be uncomfortable with [the] church aspect and they would not be ones coming to the Center."

http://www.savegarfieldpark.com/news/news22.asp

i get that, but someone there is going to need some good PR.

[GRDadof3]

I understand your concerns and am happy to remove any portion of my post you feel is inappropriate. I don

[Rizzo]

Not to introduce a question that could potentially spark the fire. I think the city has already made up its mind. Does the city take the special interest groups at play seriously? I'm sorry I can't trust either site for information. Is there a place where I can get the straight facts?

[nexpark]

You live in GR right? Come to the meeting tonight. It's being hosted by the Garfield Park Neighborhoods Assoc. and will feature reps from the Salvation Army and the City. City Hope Ministries on corner of Jefferson/Burton @ 7:00.

As far as the City making up its mind...

The applicable City staff appear to be in favor of the proposal after thoroughly reviewing all the facts.

I've had the honor to speak about this issue directly with the City Commissioners. Almost all of them appear to feel the center would be a good thing, but they want to hear directly from residents before making and formal decisions. They

[Rizzo]

I live in GR, but I won't voice an opinion as I don't live near Garfield Park, although this park was intrusted to all the citizens, correct?

[GRCentro]

I am very encouraged that the proposed sq footage has been reduced and also that the soccer field area will remain part of the park.

- Green space lost? Very minimal.

- Improvement over current facilities? Ten-fold.

- Membership costs? Not unreasonable (based on other Salvation Army centers), but I hope idealy that it would be subsidized for low-income families and discounted for the surrounding neighborhood.

- Concerns over religious affiliation? Silly. The sale doesn't propagate a religion. If you don't like the worship center, don't use it.

- Original deed to the the city? Worthy of concern. A city-wide vote should be allowed.

Side note: Did anyone else find the blue-roof rendering in today's Press rather Cornerstone University-esque?

[foo_gr]

Well, I find it fairly interesting that they had a year to choose a location, and the city offered them 6 spots, including Garfield Park, but there was no public input, and no one heard publicly about the Garfield Park site until Nov. 14th.

In my opinion, the city has made up its mind, and is proceeding on a course of action that it doesn't think can be stopped. They went through all the effort to move an estate probate from Washtenaw to Kent County, and they started all their court stuff before the Garfield Park location became public. Does that seem like they care about public opinion?

[jayblogger]

There's one point here that I'm still a little confused about: the soccer field.

Back in the day (mid-80's), my soccer team would have practice twice a week on the softball field in the northeast corner of the park. We had to set up a temporary goal post and didn't have much room. Conditions in the park were pretty rough then.

This soccer field on the plans... it doesn't exist at the present, does it? And who will maintain it and have access to play on it?

EDIT the renew site answered my question. the soccer field does not exist yet, and it has been removed from the plans... which i think is a bit of a downer. that park could use a real soccer field (if was actually kept up properly by someone, the city or private group, doesn't matter)

[Paris Texas]

Anyone know anything about the "Adopt a Park" program (not sure that's the real name of it)? For instance, I think The Gerber Foundation helps fund the off-leash dog park and someone helps fund Rosa Parks ice rink.

[GRDadof3]

Salvation Army to city: Park deal or nothing

It would be unfortunate if this fell through, but I don't think the world will come to an end...

[dbrok]

Salvation Army to city: Park deal or nothing

It would be unfortunate if this fell through, but I don't think the world will come to an end...

I agree that it would be unfortunate. Are people going to look back and say, holy crap we just squandered at $30 million gift? It's not every day something like that comes along.

[GRDadof3]

Probably not the people who says it's just a glorified "church"

[Rizzo]

The only valid argument I see here is the lost of park space, but now that I see the official plans it dosen't seem as devistating as some may paint the picture to be. 15 to 30 million worth of development for such a small space is great and I think should be welcome more positively by everyone who may live there. The only beef I have with this is the term, "community center" and this development better reflect that completely.

[grandmabetty78]

This, in my opinion, would be a GREAT and much needed addition for the area.

I have absolutely no real idea as to why the community is making such a huge deal about this.....

As long as they built the project on the space already occupied by the pool, etc., I see no real issue here.

VOTE YES!!! On this Garfield Parkers!!!

[snoogit]

will there be similar facilities?

I mean if your replacing a pool and ballcourts with a church and tennis court, then i would say no.

I guess I dont know the full extent of this project, and I don't currently live in Garfield park, but It is one of the areas im looking to move into once I get stable employment

[dbrok]

I mean if your replacing a pool and ballcourts with a church

I guess I just don't understand the "church" aspect. What about this project makes it a church? The YMCA is everywhere and stands for Young Men's Christian Association. I don't get the feeling that this new facility is going to be any more religious than the YMCA. I mean, at the Forest Hills Y there's a picture of Jesus over the water fountain and yet I don't hear any complaints. Someone please explain it to me, b/c I just don't get it.

[Sunlover38]

The mere mention of "church" send some people into a tizzy.

I hope that the plan goes through and the people who live around the area benefit greatly. If the City is not able to maintain the park and pool through lack of fiscal responsibility or whatever reason of the day, then let the Salvation Army come in and spruce the place up. I truly wish the best for the residents of that area.

[snoogit]

I guess I just don't understand the "church" aspect. What about this project makes it a church? The YMCA is everywhere and stands for Young Men's Christian Association. I don't get the feeling that this new facility is going to be any more religious than the YMCA. I mean, at the Forest Hills Y there's a picture of Jesus over the water fountain and yet I don't hear any complaints. Someone please explain it to me, b/c I just don't get it.

Theres just people for one reason or another did not have a good experience with the church system, and because of this bad esperience either became staunchly atheist, or joined another church, and opposed any and all other churches that dilineated from their own.

Churches bring with them two groups: Peaceful caring citizens who actually worry about their communities, and then theres the dark side of the faith, which is the isolationist, suburban, anti-anything thats not in the holy texts religious person. Schools teach evolution? Bring out the pitchforks. Women having the right to their own bodies? bring out the pitchforks. And so on. The people who attend churches that tend to associate with this doctrine are generally hostile people who will stop at nothing. to make sure every detail of your life is kept in record.

[dbrok]

Churches bring with them two groups: Peaceful caring citizens who actually worry about their communities, and then theres the dark side of the faith, which is the isolationist, suburban, anti-anything thats not in the holy texts religious person. Schools teach evolution? Bring out the pitchforks. Women having the right to their own bodies? bring out the pitchforks. And so on. The people who attend churches that tend to associate with this doctrine are generally hostile people who will stop at nothing. to make sure every detail of your life is kept in record.

I can perhaps see what you're saying if this were a church being constructed. But this is a facility similar to the Y. I don't think there's going to be much that's particularly religious about it. And I don't think the fanatics are going to come with the project.

[snoogit]

I can perhaps see what you're saying if this were a church being constructed. But this is a facility similar to the Y. I don't think there's going to be much that's particularly religious about it. And I don't think the fanatics are going to come with the project.

I would tend to think they wont. Certainly an outreach center would be much more tolerated then a full blown church, and I think thats whats going to be happening here.

[GRguy]

What I have read, this IS more than just a "Y". It will have a worship center (read: Church) as part of the proposed plan.

[krylonics]

Every Y has a church in them, I think its for tax exemptions. I dont know about this project but as for the Y its an insignificant chapel tucked in the corner.

[grandmabetty78]

Here is the project information: Proposed construction of a 68,000 square foot community center, which will include an indoor swimming pool, basketball and volleyball courts, a running track, a media center and classrooms.....don't hear anything about a church in there? But, come on, we DO live in Grand Rapids

There's a church on every corner it seems. Isn't that a good thing though? No one forces anyone to go IN anywhere...

[Paris Texas]

All things considered, the church probably isn't a big deal, but let's not sugar coat it too much. The Salvation Army is an evangelical Christian organization. Their leadership follows the Army model - - they have generals and majors and they wear uniforms. They are an army for Christ and I think they take that pretty seriously. The first plans were for a 500-seat worship center; not sure what the plans are now, whether they've given up some of that to keep something else or whether they will give up something else to keep that (if they end up scaling back at all). Still not saying it's a big deal in regard to Garfield Park and the proposed Community Center, just telling it like it is.

[Sunlover38]

All things considered, the church probably isn't a big deal, but let's not sugar coat it too much. The Salvation Army is an evangelical Christian organization. Their leadership follows the Army model - - they have generals and majors and they wear uniforms. They are an army for Christ and I think they take that pretty seriously. The first plans were for a 500-seat worship center; not sure what the plans are now, whether they've given up some of that to keep something else or whether they will give up something else to keep that (if they end up scaling back at all). Still not saying it's a big deal in regard to Garfield Park and the proposed Community Center, just telling it like it is.

And that is bad why?????