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Progress Energy III (aka "Block B")

ChiefJoJo

By ChiefJoJo
in The NC Triangle

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  • 2 weeks later...

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orulz City

orulz

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Merry Christmas, everyone! Progress Energy has a little Christmas present for you all. The N&O published an articlewith a list of the developers and what they have in mind for the lot north of Progress II:

  • The Ghazi Co. of Charlotte is proposing a mixed-use entertainment complex similar to its EpiCenter in Charlotte.

  • Hines, one of the country's biggest private developers, wants to build offices, shops, condominiums and a hotel.

  • Hamilton Merritt of Cary (of Dawson on Morgan fame) sees condos, an office tower, street-level shops, and perhaps a grocery.

  • Atlanta apartment developer Post Properties partnered with Charlotte developer Lincoln Harris to propose luxury apartments with street-level retail and a small condominium project.

  • White Oak Properties of Raleigh, Colonial Properties Trust of Birmingham, Centrex Properties of Raleigh, and Craig Davis Properties of Cary propose an 11-story building at Martin and Blount streets with 120 hotel rooms and 50 residential condominiums. They want to build 175 apartments and about 28,000 square feet of stores on adjacent property.

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DwnTwnRaleighGuy Hamlet

DwnTwnRaleighGuy

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Great to see!

I just hope we don't end up with a couple of 11 story buildings on that plot of land. I would rather we wait until something more substantial can be built there. But with that being said, I look forward to seeing each proposal or at least the winning bid.

Thank you, Progress Energy!!! :D

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dmccall Burg

dmccall

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Would you rather have 1 block with 50 stories and 8 blocks with parking lots and crappy old houses; or 9 blocks with 6 stories? Keep in mind that the entire (and very neat) downtown of Athens, GA is about 9 blocks. If we developed 9 blocks, we'd still have over 100 places downtown to build tall buildings.

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orulz City

orulz

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If I have a choice between a 40-story building that does nothing at street level, and an 11-story proposal building that has great ground-level retail and also incorporates developments on other blocks to build a district, I'd pick the 11-story plan any day.

What I'm looking for here (in order of importance) is:

1. Attractive streetscape with lots of retail, lots of entrances, lots of windows. Nothing bleak and monolithic like PE2.

2. Integration with the surrounding area. It needs to work with the human scale of City Market, Wilmington Street, and Moore Square to contribute to the existing environment, rather than creating it's own little environment all to itself. Internal corridors are OK (see City Market) but the external focus must not be ignored.

3. Residential density. Lots of units here!

4. Residential affordability. We don't need a building with nothing but 1,500sf luxury condos!

Then, dropping off in importance...

5. Attractive tower architecture.

And finally...

6. Height.

5 & 6 have to do only with the project's impact on Raleigh's "Money Shot," something I find much less important than many others do. If everything 1-6 can happen at once, then great... if we have to sacrifice height for an attractive streetscape, then I say do it.

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uptownliving Town

uptownliving

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Just for the record the EpiCentre in Charlotte is all low rise buildings 2-4 stories tall. Ghazi sold the air rights to Noble to build the aloft hotel (10 stories) and sold air rights to Flarehty for the 44 story condo tower.

Of course we don't know the details of Ghazi's proposal for this property so I think discussion of a 40 story tower going on this site is premature.

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RALBOI Whistle-Stop

RALBOI

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Ok everybody how about a 40 story building that has OUTSTANDING! street level or ground level added to it,not trying to be a smarty pants,but their are plenty of 40+story buildings that have SUPER! street level or ground level excitment that people LOVE and FLOCK too, in the United States, CANT WE HAVE BOTH? :unsure:

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DanRNC Burg

DanRNC

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Its good to see national developers interested in Raleigh finally. If you remember the bids for sites 1 and 4 were primarily local with a smattering of unknown developers from the southeast. I tend to think these developments point to Progress either not being sold or HQ moving to Raleigh if there is a merger. I just don't see Progress proceeding with a large project like this if a fire sale is underway but I could be wrong.

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Damien Whistle-Stop

Damien

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Would you rather have 1 block with 50 stories and 8 blocks with parking lots and crappy old houses; or 9 blocks with 6 stories? Keep in mind that the entire (and very neat) downtown of Athens, GA is about 9 blocks. If we developed 9 blocks, we'd still have over 100 places downtown to build tall buildings.
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DwnTwnRaleighGuy Hamlet

DwnTwnRaleighGuy

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Isn't this development supposed to have multiple buildings surrounding a parking deck? If that is the case then by all means give us a 50 story tower that doesnt have much street level appeal as long as the other buildings built on the property make up for that with good street level activity. Building out an entire 4 acre city block in the core of downtown with six story buildings is a little redundant. There are six story buildings, and plenty of lots for more of them to be built all over downtown. That area needs tall dense developments. I am not saying all things built on that block should be really tall, but there needs to be at least one buildings in this development that is 20 stories or more. There is plenty of room in downtown for the six story buildings. I have nothing against lowrise buildings, but I think they should be built outside the core of downtown.
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ChiefJoJo Town

ChiefJoJo

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If Ghazi Co. of Charlotte get it and builds something like the Epic Centre with a 50 story condo tower that would be great for Raleigh...

Of course we don't know the details of Ghazi's proposal for this property so I think discussion of a 40 story tower going on this site is premature.

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ncwebguy Burg

ncwebguy

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The interest from out of area developers generated by this project will bode well for the city. If they don't work on PE III, they may look at other nearby parcels. The interest might be due to the fact that there are few, if any strings attached by city government. But hopefully it is due to developers finally seeing the potential of downtown Raleigh.

Of the five plans, I think Hamilton Merritt is on the outside looking in. There are plenty of other places to do the low rise building with ground floor retail nearby. The area around Lincoln Theater and south of Founders' Row are well suited for such a project.

The "phased development" process to me sounds like retail will be an afterthought. But at least space will be reserved for it to allow the number of downtown residents and visitors to increase to demand retail space.

I like the "Epicentre" concept, with the "tall" part being above the parking deck near Martin/Wilmington, across the street from RBC Plaza, and along Martin, across from the Moore Square parking deck/CAT terminal. This would eventually have outward-facing ground floor retail along the Wilmington and Martin street fronts. The 10 story hotel could be mid-block on Blount, across from City Market. This would give half the rooms a nice view of Moore Square, and the other half a look to (surprisingly green) SouthEast Raleigh. Low rise retail would be ideal at the Blount corners, bookending the hotel, and not overwhelming City Market and Moore Square.

Street focus is more important than height. But if height allows for residential density and affordablity, then go for it. The sloping nature of the land accomodates more height close to Wilmington and less toward Blount. This would look nice next to the "phantom tower" on the NE Martin/Wilmington corner as well.

I hope this project is a sign of Progress Energy's commitment to the area and not a farewell gift.

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JTsaysToYou Whistle-Stop

JTsaysToYou

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I think that whatever they do with this area, retail should be their focus. It is about time that somewhere other than city market got a lot of retail. And by retail i don't mean resturants, lord knows there are enough of those. we need SHOPS, that is something we definitly lack in dt raleigh and something that would be great for this area.

Urban outfitters?

H&M?

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c_harmons Unincorporated Area

c_harmons

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Its good to see national developers interested in Raleigh finally. If you remember the bids for sites 1 and 4 were primarily local with a smattering of unknown developers from the southeast. I tend to think these developments point to Progress either not being sold or HQ moving to Raleigh if there is a merger. I just don't see Progress proceeding with a large project like this if a fire sale is underway but I could be wrong.
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DwnTwnRaleighGuy Hamlet

DwnTwnRaleighGuy

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I believe that in the long run, you will see Coopers and all of the other small business's move into newer digs or simply move into a different location downtown. What I would prefer would be for the developer chosen for this project to build enough retail space that they and others could move in and make a better/nicer statement in that block of land and connect it with Fayettville st and City Market. :D

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  • 4 weeks later...
willrusso Whistle-Stop

willrusso

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Looks like Progress Energy has found a developer for the block north of P.E. II. They're going with the same developer of the Dawson on Morgan. It is supposed to include high-rise condos, retail, and a grocery store. Story can be read here:

http://www.wral.com/news/local/story/1193420/ :yahoo:

Is it just me, or do you guys see another "canyon" forming on Wilmington St.

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