Progress Energy III (aka "Block B")

[ChiefJoJo]

Here is an article from the Sunday N&O about Scott Cutlip, the dealmaker behind Progress Energy's new DT HQ, the RBC deal, and the new project between them (the subject of this thread).

[urbanesq]

Here is an article from the Sunday N&O about Scott Cutlip, the dealmaker behind Progress Energy's new DT HQ, the RBC deal, and the new project between them (the subject of this thread).

Bob Cutlip is a deal-maker for sure, but also is a totally decent guy.

He's also the incoming chair of a national commercial real estate association this year, which should bring lots of focus on and attention to the Triangle.

[bikwillie]

Maybe he could post some info on here and throw us all a bone.

[avery]

^wouldn't that be nice.

[pack-man]

i'm in agreement that the bus depot at moore square needs some serious help. it is ugly and believe it or not, it is unsafe. i've seen some real bad stuff go down there. The cops stay clear of that area most of the time. My advice to those of you who think that you are safe there, watch your back.

Unfortunately, this is a norm for most bus stations around the country.

[RaleighRick]

Is it asking too much for someone to think big downtown. That block is perfect for a mixed use retail/office/residential/parking TOWER. Think dramatic. Think exciting. Something that will draw people from all over the triangle to downtown. Something like the planned Epicenter in Charlotte. Obviously not as tall, but something just as awsome for Raleigh. The retail section rocks. We have Progress Energy and Highwoods working on this. This may be one of the best chances we have for a high quality, city altering, urban project. Can anyone get Bob Cutlip on the phone?

The Ghazi Company

[Transplant]

Something along the same lines as the Epicenter would be a great fit in any of the parking lots downtown. A 40 story building of residential would be ambitous at this point for Raleigh, but the combination of services would be unparalleled.

Too back we couldn't go back and get the RBC center built somewhere in DT.....

[bdp]

no kidding... you know some people are kicking themselves for approving the RBC center where they did... except for whoever made a bundle off the land. i think if the Dix plan had happened a few years earlier the rbc center would be sitting there today.

[jumboman]

i'm telling yall, we need to get the carolina mudcats to move to a downtown raleigh stadium, it'd be better than way out in the middle of nowhere. the epicenter should work really well in that section of downtown charlotte, especially right next to the new arena! people coming out of games are looking for something to do, and somewhere to celebrate following wins. i know i am after pack and canes games!!

[dmccall]

i'm telling yall, we need to get the carolina mudcats to move to a downtown raleigh stadium, it'd be better than way out in the middle of nowhere. the epicenter should work really well in that section of downtown charlotte, especially right next to the new arena! people coming out of games are looking for something to do, and somewhere to celebrate following wins. i know i am after pack and canes games!!

I would love that, but there was discussion of this around 10 years ago. A Mudcats move to Raleigh would violate a minor league baseball regulation requiring teams to be no closer than something like 30 miles from each other.

We are getting pro soccer back, though

[dmccall]

i'm telling yall, we need to get the carolina mudcats to move to a downtown raleigh stadium, it'd be better than way out in the middle of nowhere. the epicenter should work really well in that section of downtown charlotte, especially right next to the new arena! people coming out of games are looking for something to do, and somewhere to celebrate following wins. i know i am after pack and canes games!!

I would love that, but there was discussion of this around 10 years ago. A Mudcats move to Raleigh would violate a minor league baseball regulation requiring teams to be no closer than something like 30 miles from each other.

We are getting pro soccer back, though

As far as the RBC Center goes, NCSU has owned that land for decades, so nobody really made big money on it. The building was to be NCSU's all the way, but they couldn't fund it completely. Enter the Whalers who made it all happen. They took a third-rate arena design and turned it into a lower-first-rate design. Without them NCSU would be playing in an extremely basic Lawrence Joel type of coliseum - one that wouldn't be able to make much money, to be honest. Truth be known, I think the Canes would rather have had it downtown, but they have been completely cordial about the whole thing.

Two good things about the arena being where it is are that it is easy for everyone in the Triangle to get there, and it is safe. My mother is not the only woman who would not feel comfortable going to a downtown arena on a weeknight with my sister or a friend when my father is out of town. Also, the tailgating parties before hockey playoff games are super, and couldn't be done downtown. So while it would have been a good thing for downtown, it wouldn't necessarily have been better for the arena's revenue stream.

[bikwillie]

I went to the symphony sat night and started thinking "what ifs"... The RBC Center was one of them. There is no way we'll get the CIAA back from Charlotte. They have the BBall arena, CC, and hotel rooms within a few blocks whereas here, attendees had to travel all over for the parties, restaurants, hotel, games, etc.

The other big "what if" was the art museum. How in the world the city let that leave downtown and go to the burbs (and not just any burbs, in a commercial/industrial area bounded by a prison and a highway patrol motor pool) is beyond me. I was too young to remember the politics, but surely if the city raised cain the legislature would have backed off.

Frankly, I think that is Raleigh's only hope as a travel destination is to make itself a cultural destination and build off of that. Museums, visual and performing arts and the like.

It really just drives home the point of how damaging having years and years of laissez faire city government has been. It has set us back a decade at least behind many other cities our size.

[Transplant]

From what i remember, I believe the Bulls' owners actually requested the rules for the distance requirement because they were afraid of a team in Raleigh. Which may make sense now, but in 10 years with the population of both areas exploding, 2 minor league teams may be better than 1 pro team. I love going to bulls games. Its easy to find free parking, and its impossible to beat $7.50 tickets (as a max!). It would be great to have a major league team too, but the minors offer a great enviroment too.

(As far as a pro team goes, best bet is to hope Charlotte doesn't get one before the Triange over takes them in population. If Charlotte gets one, there's no chance for Raleigh).

If the Bulls allowed Raleigh to get a team, it would be a great rivalry which doesn't really happen in Triple-A, plus, with Charlotte, and Richmond having teams, it would be a great little area for Ball.

The City should designate and purchase property now near DT for an arena/stadium.

As far as the Art museum goes, I moved here well after it was moved from DT. It is a VERY good museum that many folks don't experience. It would have been a great location somewhere near the other Museums in DT. Its too bad that the museum is there now, there is little insentive to move. The best case scenario would be for the open lands along Blue Ridge to get developed into a medium density area with shops lining Blue Ridge and house behind them for a couple of blocks. the area has no character now.

[orulz]

The NC Art Museum is actually in the planning stages of moving... to another location on Blue Ridge Road. The current museum building will be reused as instructional and classroom space.

They should move downtown instead. The state owns a block of land that would be perfect for it, too: that enormous parking lot near the capitol across Wilmington from the history museum. It's almost as if they've kept that block undeveloped for the very purpose of building more museums. Rather than another sprawling building out on Blue Ridge, a 4 or 5 story museum on that block facing Wilmington would be awesome. Of course, they'd have to do something to make the history museum more friendly to Wilmington as well.

[Jones_]

The NC Art Museum is actually in the planning stages of moving... to another location on Blue Ridge Road. The current museum building will be reused as instructional and classroom space.

They should move downtown instead. The state owns a block of land that would be perfect for it, too: that enormous parking lot near the capitol across Wilmington from the history museum. It's almost as if they've kept that block undeveloped for the very purpose of building more museums. Rather than another sprawling building out on Blue Ridge, a 4 or 5 story museum on that block facing Wilmington would be awesome. Of course, they'd have to do something to make the history museum more friendly to Wilmington as well.

That would be a really great spot...you'd have this awesome cresent of museums stretching from Moore Square to Green Square. Could you squeeze an outdoor movie theater on the site somewhere you think? Theater in the Park is very popular....people walking down to the MoA from their Blount Street townhomes to catch a flick and after the movie onward for a cocktail somewhere.....

[Transplant]

An ampitheatre could be set up on the northeast corner of the block that the capitol is on. I'm sure there would be some resitance, but what the heck.

If it was dug down 15 - 20 ft, it would be minimally invasive from a site line perspective.

[urbanesq]

The NC Art Museum is actually in the planning stages of moving... to another location on Blue Ridge Road. The current museum building will be reused as instructional and classroom space.

They should move downtown instead. The state owns a block of land that would be perfect for it, too: that enormous parking lot near the capitol across Wilmington from the history museum. It's almost as if they've kept that block undeveloped for the very purpose of building more museums. Rather than another sprawling building out on Blue Ridge, a 4 or 5 story museum on that block facing Wilmington would be awesome. Of course, they'd have to do something to make the history museum more friendly to Wilmington as well.

My mother-in-law says that her "last great battle" was her involvement in the group that fought to keep the art museum downtown. They lost, obviously. She said that one idea at the time, which I always thought was a good one, was to divide the museum among its more historic/traditional exhibits and the more modern/contemporary ones. I think it would be great to have the more traditional museum pieces in a nice new building downtown, with one or two smaller contemporary exhibits and/or traveling shows; and have the larger contemporary pieces in the Blue Ridge Rd. location -- which is an excellent place for art-- maybe with a smaller historical exhibit for balance.

I think Raleigh, and NC for that matter, are grown up enough to have a museum occupy multiple facilities. Seems to me it would generate excitement and accessibility to each.

[MR-2]

The degree of quality in the NC Art collection is very impressive. I visited the museum last weekend, and enjoyed every bit of it. The American landscape section particularly struck me. It's such a shame that a lot of that beautiful country has been defiled by sprawl.

I agree that the museum should be downtown. I can't believe they had it there once and chose to move it to where it is. Currently it sits in a nice little park with a greenway that connects to a lot of other things. They should make the whole area a park and community center.

As for the outdoor museum exhibits, a good compromise would be setting any urban museum near a green square, and using that square as an exhibit house for the outdoor stuff. The park across from Exploris would be perfect. And, my, it just so happens there's a good empty lot to utilize there.

The museum is moving now. If nobody pipes up about bringing it downtown now, it will never be downtown.

[urbanesq]

The museum is moving now. If nobody pipes up about bringing it downtown now, it will never be downtown.

I'm certainly willing to write letters, but I fear it won't ever be downtown again regardless.

Hope I'm wrong.

[Eastwestrob]

That would be a really great spot...you'd have this awesome cresent of museums stretching from Moore Square to Green Square. Could you squeeze an outdoor movie theater on the site somewhere you think? Theater in the Park is very popular....people walking down to the MoA from their Blount Street townhomes to catch a flick and after the movie onward for a cocktail somewhere.....

Now why would Raleigh do that.....That makes too much sense...lol

[carynative]

Last night at 11, WRAL reported that RBC is now planning to build a 1,050 space deck at Martin and Wilmington streets. It didn't say how many stories high but did say it would have retail on the ground level along Martin. It also said a site plan had been filed, but I'm not sure where to look for that on the city's Web site. Of course the story isn't online. Did anyone else hear this report or know about this? Isn't this the location of the mystery condo tower?

[raleighfan]

Here's the link on the City of Raleigh site:

Parking deck

[carynative]

Here's the link on the City of Raleigh site:

Parking deck

Thanks, I should have just checked their news releases, didn't even think about it. Any ideas on what that "future development" includes?

[raleighfan]

No, but certainly a very interesting question...

[ChiefJoJo]

Regarding the new MOU between the city, Progress, and Highwoods, this thread discusses the development in that block. Here is the initial article describing what is planned. The deck will ikely be constructed on the interior of the block with retail, office, and residential on the exterior of the block. No word on whether any of the existing historic buildings will be renovated (particularly on the Wilmington St side near Martin).

Here's the location.