Granholm Screws West Michigan Again

[GRDadof3]

Oh yeah, when was the last time any of us rode the city bus?

Quite a chess match in Lansing right now. It will be interesting to see how it plays out.

Actually, I'm surprised how many forumers here do ride the bus, from past discussions. I don't see a train from GR to Holland or Muskegon getting used enough to be viable. Traffic would drop WAY off in the winter. The hope would be that any kind of transit system would drive TOD's along the lines, which is happening in many of the cities that have adopted expanded systems.

One good thing is that all this brouhaha has given much more attention to this bill than I think it would have otherwise. Maybe that was the plan Transit is not always on the forefront of taxpayers minds, but now if West Michiganders think we're getting screwed, maybe they'll stand up for their share.

[torgo]

Yah, I don't think its really a valid argument to say that no one rides the bus, because The Rapid has been gaining riders steadily for some time. Lots of college students and young workers ride it too, not just bums. The "six cities" (GR, Kentwood, Wyoming, Walker, Grandville, EGR) have been supportive of The Rapid. The millage hike a couple years ago passed 2-1.

[HolidayInnExpress]

West Michigan should break away from the rest of the State. If these East side politicians keep it up soon this will be as big of a dump as the entire East side.

Perhaps that is their goal. After all, misery loves company...

Such emotions are unproductive. The East Side is hardly a dump. The whole Grand Rapids area is not judged by the run down, crime plagued South East side of the City.....so why judge the Detroit Metropolitan area by its run down areas? Your statement is really unfair. There are more affluent areas in Metro Detroit than there are total areas in Metro Grand Rapids.

Grand Rapids is an up and coming area and a bright spot in a troubled state. However....a word to the wise....be careful what you wish for (for grand rapids to become a major metropolis)....because with that comes all the problems of Big Cities....that you some of you like to look down upon Detroit for.

[twoshort]

soon this will be as big of a dump as the entire East side.

Goodness. Have you ever been east of Lansing(sarcasm)? Such statements reflect poorly on the board as a whole.

[dbrok]

soon this will be as big of a dump as the entire East side.

I agree that making a blanket statement about the entire east side of the state is a little over the top, but let's face it, the East side has a bad reputation. Flint and Detroit are basically jokes to anybody from outside the state and that's not unfounded. When Detroit is near the top of the crime list year and year out, and that's all the rest of the nation hears about, that's not good for your image. The problem is, if you actually go to Detroit it's really pretty true. How safe is downtown when you're just a block or two off the beaten path around Ford Field or Hockeytown? Who feels safe parking multiple blocks away from COBO for the Auto Show? I don't.

The blights and negativity of Detroit and Flint are so bad they weigh on the areas around them and overshadow nice suburbs and cities like Livonia and Bloomfield Hills. And overall, people's perceptions are Detroit is bad and Flint is bad. As the saying goes, perception is nine-tenths reality.

[twoshort]

I agree that making a blanket statement about the entire east side of the state is a little over the top, but let's face it, the East side has a bad reputation.

The problem is he specified East Side. If Grand Rapids were as dumpy as Bloomfield Hills, I would be fine with it.

[GaryP]

Grand Rapids is an up and coming area and a bright spot in a troubled state. However....a word to the wise....be careful what you wish for (for grand rapids to become a major metropolis)....because with that comes all the problems of Big Cities....that you some of you like to look down upon Detroit for.

GR is in a much better position to deal with these problems than Detroit is. We have been progressive about things where as Detroiters and their politicians prefer to bicker amongst themselves rather than look for solutions. I think we are in the process of becoming a major metro and we have been doing a great job in handling it, and the fixed route transit that our region is asking for is a part of that. It really upsets me that it got bogged down because of Detroit's problems. So, yes I am looking down on that entire region....again. IMO they are just insistent on squandering their own great potential.

[HolidayInnExpress]

I agree that making a blanket statement about the entire east side of the state is a little over the top, but let's face it, the East side has a bad reputation. Flint and Detroit are basically jokes to anybody from outside the state and that's not unfounded. When Detroit is near the top of the crime list year and year out, and that's all the rest of the nation hears about, that's not good for your image. The problem is, if you actually go to Detroit it's really pretty true. How safe is downtown when you're just a block or two off the beaten path around Ford Field or Hockeytown? Who feels safe parking multiple blocks away from COBO for the Auto Show? I don't.

The blights and negativity of Detroit and Flint are so bad they weigh on the areas around them and overshadow nice suburbs and cities like Livonia and Bloomfield Hills. And overall, people's perceptions are Detroit is bad and Flint is bad. As the saying goes, perception is nine-tenths reality.

Let

[GRDadof3]

Don't let the comments of a few reflect on the rest of us. I too disagree that the entire East side of the State is a "dump". Let's drop the East side/West side fighting, shall we?

I'm going to go back to my earlier post and claim that this whole thing was a ploy set up by Kooiman, Heartwell and DeRoche (and a clever one at that), to drive a wedge into the East/West issue and put it on the front pages. Did anyone read the letter from Heartwell in the editorial of the Press? Why would they, at the last minute, narrow this bill down to Kent County only (knowing full well that Granholm would NEVER sign something that benefitted Kent County only)?!! I mean come on, does anyone believe for a minute that Kooiman thought Granholm would approve it? Would anyone in West Michigan have paid attention to this story if it was just another humdrum budget line-item bill?

I'm not saying there is a conspiracy, but definitely some crafty political maneuvering going on.

[HolidayInnExpress]

Don't let the comments of a few reflect on the rest of us. I too disagree that the entire East side of the State is a "dump". Let's drop the East side/West side fighting, shall we?

I'm going to go back to my earlier post and claim that this whole thing was a ploy set up by Kooiman, Heartwell and DeRoche (and a clever one at that), to drive a wedge into the East/West issue and put it on the front pages. Did anyone read the letter from Heartwell in the editorial of the Press? Why would they, at the last minute, narrow this bill down to Kent County only (knowing full well that Granholm would NEVER sign something that benefitted Kent County only)?!! I mean come on, does anyone believe for a minute that Kooiman thought Granholm would approve it? Would anyone in West Michigan have paid attention to this story if it was just another humdrum budget line-item bill?

I'm not saying there is a conspiracy, but definitely some crafty political maneuvering going on.

What would be the perceived benefit....to Grand Rapids... of stirring up these fault lines? Are they trying to rally Grand Rapids support against the Govenor?

[GRDadof3]

What would be the perceived benefit....to Grand Rapids... of stirring up these fault lines? Are they trying to rally Grand Rapids support against the Govenor?

Maybe partly against the Governor (on Kooiman's and DeRoche's part to set the stage for the next election), but I think more likely to get Kent County voters to pay attention to it so that they can get the transit funding. If no one's paying attention (especially this time of year around the holidays), the likelihood of passage is a lot lower (IMO). Now when they re-introduce a bill in January, constituents in Kent County and surrounding area will be "fired up" to not get "screwed" by the East side of the State again.

Could all be conjecture.

[GaryP]

Don't let the comments of a few reflect on the rest of us. I too disagree that the entire East side of the State is a "dump". Let's drop the East side/West side fighting, shall we?

I'm going to go back to my earlier post and claim that this whole thing was a ploy set up by Kooiman, Heartwell and DeRoche (and a clever one at that), to drive a wedge into the East/West issue and put it on the front pages. Did anyone read the letter from Heartwell in the editorial of the Press? Why would they, at the last minute, narrow this bill down to Kent County only (knowing full well that Granholm would NEVER sign something that benefitted Kent County only)?!! I mean come on, does anyone believe for a minute that Kooiman thought Granholm would approve it? Would anyone in West Michigan have paid attention to this story if it was just another humdrum budget line-item bill?

I'm not saying there is a conspiracy, but definitely some crafty political maneuvering going on.

Heartwell blamed the republicans, why would he be in on this?

Also this shouldn't have been a big deal and shouldn't have gotten any press because it should have been signed, and definitely would have been signed in its original form.

I still think there were only 2 possibilities for Kooiman to change the bill like he did (either as a political favor or to avoid a fight with east side representatives).

On more thing, I don't think the east side is a dump and I know a lot of great people over there, but this in now an east/west issue; I don't think we can avoid that.

[Rizzo]

You make a valid argument Grdad, I hope you are right. ;-)

[GRDadof3]

Heartwell blamed the republicans, why would he be in on this?

Also this shouldn't have been a big deal and shouldn't have gotten any press because it should have been signed, and definitely would have been signed in its original form.

I still think there were only 2 possibilities for Kooiman to change the bill like he did (either as a political favor or to avoid a fight with east side representatives).

On more thing, I don't think the east side is a dump and I know a lot of great people over there, but this in now an east/west issue; I don't think we can avoid that.

Heartwell was very careful not to pin this on Granholm, but he did dub it an "East/West" fight. But he wants this to pass because of his involvement with The RAPID. He has a lot of political capital at stake here. Your theory might be more accurate though.

I wasn't saying that we shouldn't make this an East/West thing, but I also don't think we should be "trashing" the East side either in the process. That's all.

[GRCentro]

Perhaps I'm confused. We're hypothesizing that Kooiman changed the bill to be specific to Kent County, otherwise it would not have passed because many on the East side are opposed to the Detroit-Ann Arbor rail. Yet, Granholm vetoed the bill because it doesn't give the rest of the state (Detroit) the same benefits as it would to Grand Rapids.

I don't get it.

[GRCentro]

I guess the Press editorial helps me answer my own question.

"Deep divisions in Southeast Michigan over mass transit won't be settled anytime soon."

A hurtful Granholm veto

[GRDadof3]

I'm with you GRCentro. The whole thing is confusing, and the responses from local leaders seemed choreographed or something. It's just weird

[GRCentro]

The whole thing is confusing, and the responses from local leaders seemed choreographed or something. It's just weird

Yeah, I believe mud-fling 2006 has begun.

Said Kooiman: "The actions today send a clear signal from the governor that the future of West Michigan is not something that matters to her."

[torgo]

Yeah, I believe mud-fling 2006 has begun.

I think you are exactly right. By amending the bill to apply only to Kent County, Kooiman accomplished 2 things: It got the bill to the governor, which apparently wouldn't have happened if it was broader. And second, it put Granholm in the politically uncomfortable position of signing it and pissing off metro Detroit, or vetoing it and pissing off metro GR. Since she isn't probably going to do that well in GR anyways against DeVos in '06, maybe she just decided to cut her losses.

[rbdetsport]

You all piss me off. If you guys all have something to say about Southeast Michigan and Detroit go on over to the Detroit Forum and post a topic there. Why do all you Grand Rapid's people think you are better then Detroit? Were all better then you, we won't sit down and beotch about another city for no reason. Check out the Detroit Offtopic thread and see how much better we are.

[GaryP]

I think you are exactly right. By amending the bill to apply only to Kent County, Kooiman accomplished 2 things: It got the bill to the governor, which apparently wouldn't have happened if it was broader. And second, it put Granholm in the politically uncomfortable position of signing it and pissing off metro Detroit, or vetoing it and pissing off metro GR. Since she isn't probably going to do that well in GR anyways against DeVos in '06, maybe she just decided to cut her losses.

It shouldn't have made anyone in detroit mad. The reason they can't get transit over there is their own politicians. It may have made some of the transit supporters jealous, but it shouldn't have made anyone mad at Grand Rapids or Granholm.

[twoshort]

You all piss me off. If you guys all have something to say about Southeast Michigan and Detroit go on over to the Detroit Forum and post a topic there. Why do all you Grand Rapid's people think you are better then Detroit? Were all better then you, we won't sit down and beotch about another city for no reason. Check out the Detroit Offtopic thread and see how much better we are.

[torgo]

It shouldn't have made anyone in detroit mad. The reason they can't get transit over there is their own politicians. It may have made some of the transit supporters jealous, but it shouldn't have made anyone mad at Grand Rapids or Granholm.

I agree with you, but that op-ed article that grgridgirl posted gave me the impression that metro D was pressuring her not to sign it and give GR any special advantages or whatever. Just a thought

[GaryP]

I guess the Press editorial helps me answer my own question.

"Deep divisions in Southeast Michigan over mass transit won't be settled anytime soon."

A hurtful Granholm veto

That article does a good job of saying exaclty what I've been trying to say all along.

[GRDadof3]

You all piss me off. If you guys all have something to say about Southeast Michigan and Detroit go on over to the Detroit Forum and post a topic there. Why do all you Grand Rapid's people think you are better then Detroit? Were all better then you, we won't sit down and beotch about another city for no reason. Check out the Detroit Offtopic thread and see how much better we are.

rbdetsport, you need to chill. Only one person made a disparaging remark about Detroit. I thought we were all being a little more cordial then we could be. We have every right to discuss this topic, which includes factual information regarding Detroit's status regarding mass transit. As Heartwell said, we are EIGHT years ahead of the Detroit Metro area on this issue.

I see the election season has officially begun