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Bring Back The Whale!!!

GHartford

By GHartford
in Greater Hartford

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beerbeer Burg

beerbeer

Posted
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I agree completely that LOWER TAXES are by far the best inducement for business development.

However, on some other points. 30 years is a long run for an arena. The changes in luxury seating and arena design have moved very far from since the HCC went up. If you look on the streets around the HCC, it was clearly the center of much of the economic development that happened in Hartford in the 80's, the decade following its completion. I would think it has repaid the city many times the cost of it's costruction.

There is also the advertising and PR value of putting Hartford on sports pages every day from coast to coast. A major league sports franchise would do much to change the perceptions of the city for the better.

But I still think the greatest value is quality of life. Not just for Hartford but for the state, Without the HCC, we would have never seen Larry Bird or Wayne Gretzky in person. There would be no UConn basketball downtown. No Ringling Brothers or Stars on Ice. The latter is my mother-in-law's favorite and she and my father-in-law drive up from Old Satbrook for it. It's about the only time they go to the city. They never come to the city to sit in Bushnell Park.

Northland has stated they don't want state should pay to build the arena. They need the state to prime the pump. It seems reasonable.

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JayHass Whistle-Stop

JayHass

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JAYHASS- I too live on the manchester/bolton line in manchester- Welcome neighbor

Small world. :) I'm up on Indian Drive - short walk to Shadey Glen. :whistling:

Theophrastus Bombastus: As for the 12B site and WFSB not fitting, GOOD POINT. I guess they want an ESPN type of compound. :rolleyes: I don't buy it, they were pretty cock sure in the HBJ article that the space would work fine and had all the typical "were proud to stay in Hartford" spin as well. Seems Rocky Hill kissed the old brown eye a little better...

BJE: I forgot to mention to that RF was not 3-4 years in the planning by a LONG shot. UCONN was about to lose the 1A offer and NOTHING was on the table till Rowland strong armed the do nothings to get the ball rolling and the state legislature approved and it went on the fast track with Pratt donating the land etc etc. It's a HUGE booster for the Hartford region and UCONN - well worth some government money being invested.

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Luca Brasi Hamlet

Luca Brasi

Posted
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I think the 12B site is the best location for a number of reasons.

One - its city owned land.

Two- it would bridge the I84 canyon and create an invaluable link to the north end. I hate that downtown stops abrubtly at I 84 and this is the perfect way to extend downtown over a pretty imposing physical barrier.

Three - it rids Hartford of acres of surface parking.

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Bill Mocarsky Hamlet

Bill Mocarsky

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I like the 12B site for the arena. That will give a purpose to the small plaza that bridges the highway on the EAST side of Main Street. The plaza could link to it via an extention that spans Morgan Street.

I also like the idea of getting rid of the present arena. I think the bridge that connects the Civic Center to the Hilton is an eye sore, ruining Church Street.

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Hartfordfan Whistle-Stop

Hartfordfan

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the proposed site is an excellent one. it is still downtown and is not so far away as the meadows. i was disapointed that they want to build a 16,000 seat arena. It should be bigger, at least 18,000. If it is built the old civic center will die like the new haven coliseum. Cool idea to put a needed ice skating rink there. hey how about putting a cutter financial type building there at the civic center? (assuming it will be deomolished.

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uconn99 Hamlet

uconn99

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The civic center has been nothing but a asset to the city. it might be losing money now but that is because it is outdated, and poorly managed. They did millions in renovatons a few years ago for what? To add some new seats and paint the whole place that ugly purple? That nice scoreboard was there when the Whalers played.

There will always be a civic center type building in Hartford, pro sports or not. The UConn basketball programs are at the moment Connecticut's pro sports, and they weigh heavily on what will be in futire plans. There is probably more corportate support for UConn basketball now than the Whalers ever had, however this is a whole other touchy subject for me having scene my dads seats only get worse because of the big corps that only buy seats and usually have them go empty.

I think 16,000 seats is a low figure at the moment. Remember hockey usually seats 500-1,000 fewer than basketball, and with the size market Hartford is 16,000 for hockey might be fine with around 16,500-17,000 for basketball.

Take a look at the Columbus arena. It is very nice and Hartford should plan something just like theirs. Total cost was $150 million, not that bad considering what they have there.

http://www.nationwidearena.com/arena/

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HartfordTycoon Town

HartfordTycoon

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I say go for the gusto. We might as well go for 17.5k to 18K range. Why not when Uconn (Men) can easily fill that. We should not short change ourselves and make sure we are positioned for the NHL or even the NBA should the opportunity arise.

And it will still be all to easy to fill it to capicity for our big concerts like Green Day and Springstein. An Arena in Hartford serves an area much larger than Hartford's defined metro. About 2.5 times as large really.

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uconn99 Hamlet

uconn99

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I believe Columbus might not incorporate luxury box numbers. The other day I was reading box scores in the paper and Columbus had a listed crowd of 16,200 while they showed the capacity in (16,200). When I looked at nationwide arenas web site they listed a hockey capacity of 18,500.

Also what seemed a little strange was more than one team had listed attendance 1500-2,000 over what the actual arena capacity was listed as. I heard that the NHL and teams are playing with the numbers a little, there is no way you can get 2,000 more people into a arena.

The more and more I look at the Columbus arena the more I like it. They have something called the arena district with shops, hotels, and dinning. Hartford could do something very much like this, kind of like a front street #2.

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MadVlad Town

MadVlad

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I believe Columbus might not incorporate luxury box numbers. The other day I was reading box scores in the paper and Columbus had a listed crowd of 16,200 while they showed the capacity in (16,200). When I looked at nationwide arenas web site they listed a hockey capacity of 18,500.

Also what seemed a little strange was more than one team had listed attendance 1500-2,000 over what the actual arena capacity was listed as. I heard that the NHL and teams are playing with the numbers a little, there is no way you can get 2,000 more people into a arena.

The more and more I look at the Columbus arena the more I like it. They have something called the arena district with shops, hotels, and dinning. Hartford could do something very much like this, kind of like a front street #2.

Toronto and Montreal often list more people than the arena can hold. My theory is this: I went to a Maple Leafs/Canadiens game in Toronto, bought tickets from a scalper, and my tickets ended up being a standing spot up in the bar. Very odd, but true...

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JayHass Whistle-Stop

JayHass

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Wow- smaller than you may think- I live on Westland St.

Our backyards may touch.

Crazy small world!!!!

How far up the hill are you?

LOL What are the chances that we are neighbors?!? Too bad it took an international messagebord to meet each other. :lol:

I'm all the way up the hill...fixing up the house on the corner of Eastland and Indian. I may have to sell soon thanks to an awnry ex :rolleyes: but I'm trying to keep the place through a buyout. If things work out I"m planning a neighborhood BBQ in the Spring. You're invited. :thumbsup:

Shoot me an email so we can stay in touch. jay@hassturbo . com

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ctman987 Hamlet

ctman987

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My thoughts are if a new civic center were to be built dp it on the 12B site. The area could be the perfect home for a major corporation but it appears that is not happening anytime soon (WFSB and ING decided to leave the city) so this project would do wonders in reconnecting the two halves of the downtown. With traffic moving on "downtown north" that would also help to reconnect downtown with the north meadows (CT Expo Center, Dodge Music Center/Meadows) which will possibly be the future home of a new retail center.

The current civic center along with the dodge music theater/meadows attract thousands of people to the city for trade shows, concerts, games, etc and the city in my opinion cannot give up space it has for these games, shows, etc which means either renovate or build new but now demoilish and build nothing new

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GregV Whistle-Stop

GregV

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I see a lot has happened (or at least a lot has been discussed) since I left for vacation!

I fall in the middle of most of the arguments here: subsidies for large projects such as this are a necessary evil, but should be kept to a minimum. As for the 12B site, it's a lot riskier than a Front Street or other downtown proper location, but the upside potential is far greater. This city MUST do something to mend the I-84 fissure, and since there's no office or residential demand on the site, it's either retail or entertainment. I think the latter would prove more successful.

Happy New Year everyone!

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beerbeer Burg

beerbeer

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Posted

Besides the current location there are only two "downtown" sites big enough for an arena. Front street isn't physically big enough for an arena.

The two blue patches are the locations, over the highway using some of 12 B or the six vacant acres diagonally across from the Bushnell Auditorium.

81635902_68d70af1a0.jpg

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MadVlad Town

MadVlad

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I think you're rigth and I'm wrong. But all those lots across I-84 are empty and the area I marked is large enought to fit the building..

I do like your spot better, off to the side by the Crowne Plaza is an odd spot for an Arena...

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