Bring Back The Whale!!!

[drc72]

Developer Hints at Moving NHL's Penguins to Hartford

April 7, 2006 01:11 PM EDT

PITTSBURGH (AP) -- A Massachusetts developer wants to buy the Penguins and either keep the hockey team in the city or move them to Hartford where he is trying to get state officials to build a new arena, according to media reports.

Lawrence Gottesdiener told the Pittsburgh Tribune-Review that he owns a great deal of property in Hartford, so moving the team there makes sense for him.

WFSB Story

Is this story for real? Because if it is the chances of a team coming back have just greatly increased.

[malikr65]

If we get a team I would love for it to be the Penguins. Sydney Crosby would look great in a Whalers uniform.

[ctman987]

This is great news for the city of Hartford and the entire state of CT and I just hope that the city and state do not turn there backs on Northland Investments commitment to bringing pro sports back to Hartford because lets not forget thrown into the Hartford Courant article that came out last week Lawrence G. said that he wants to buy a team and bring it to Hartford but if that doesnt work he will look elsewhere.

My problem with the plans to build a new center are that I think the center should remain in the heart of the city. When people go to the concerts/games/etc at the civic they first go to eat at the restaurants around the center on Pratt St, Asylum St, Trumbull St, etc. the walk over to the civic center and then depending on there age head on over to Main St or Allyn St and head to Hartford's clubs/bars/pubs/etc. for the nightlife scene and I dont want that to be lost if people dont want to walk across the highway to the establishments in the heart of the city.

And yes even though there civic center is losing revenue and the wolf pack could get more people coming to see them there is still a large number of people who attend events at the civic including wolf pack games and it is great to see them crowding the streets before and after events and games such as last nights wolf pack game for example

[Theophrastus Bombastus]

I agree, the arena should stay in the 'heart' of Hartford. Across 84, I'm afraid people will just drive in, park, go to the game, and leave - they won't venture across 84 to the bars, restaurants, etc. There HAS to be a way to fit a new arena where the HCC is (maybe over the back road?)

[beerbeer]

ctman -- Gottesdiener completely disagrees with you about the stadium site. He thinks the problem with the current HCC is that it is in the heart of the city and clogging all the arteries. Moving the HCC across the highway will open up the heart of the city for development and growth according to Mr. G.

The land proposed for the arena had been vacant since I can remember, at least back to the late 60s and early 70's. So the new arena would take advantage of land that has been completley ignored for 40 years.

Thank goodness this guy is being proactive. He is making stuff happpen. If he can get an NHL team back to the metro area, it will benefit the entire region.

[LItoCT]

I think that wherever they put the arena retail will develop around it...if they put it out far in the neighborhoods or (worse) in the suburbs the stadium will become a little edge node - but by putting it adjacent to downtown it allows whatever new retail develops around it to be considered an extension of downtown, technically causing Downtown to extend to the north (or wherever). Granted, at first Main and Pratt probably see as much of a boom from this arena as they would if it were in the same spot as the HCC but I think it will help downtown as a whole in the long run. Also...the city has always been trying to get people think of the area north of 84 as downtown - in the Hartford tourist maps it is indicated as such but they have never really had anything big up there for people - now they would. And I'm sure that if the arena is built up there they would make the pedestrian crossings over 84 much easier to deal with (probably something like the new Columbus Ave. Bridge over the whitehead hwy, idk.)

[MadVlad]

I think they plan on covering part of the highway, so "crossing" I-84 should be much of anything, it'll be connected. If they do it correctly, it'll totally open up downtown. I'd say downtown could add another quarter of it's size if that land north of I-84 gets developed, that is not a bad thing. I believe Scott Gray will have a 1hour radio show on NHL hockey returning to Hartford tomorrow (Sundfay) at 1PM on WTIC.

Oh, and btw, yes, the Wolf Pack do pull some people downtown, but it's less than half what the Whalers pulled, that's horrible.

[drc72]

I think they plan on covering part of the highway, so "crossing" I-84 should be much of anything, it'll be connected. If they do it correctly, it'll totally open up downtown. I'd say downtown could add another quarter of it's size if that land north of I-84 gets developed, that is not a bad thing. I believe Scott Gray will have a 1hour radio show on NHL hockey returning to Hartford tomorrow (Sundfay) at 1PM on WTIC.

Oh, and btw, yes, the Wolf Pack do pull some people downtown, but it's less than half what the Whalers pulled, that's horrible.

Yeah the Wolfpack just doesn't have the prestige The Whaler's had, but I always enjoy going to a Wolfpack game whenever I can.

[CanesFan98]

This is great news, I just hope the state doesn't turn their back and not give any support when the time comes. If we can't get NHL, NBA would be a great choice. There are a few teams who wouldn'tmind a change, Seatle, Atlanta, Memphis, Toronto, and maybe Golden State?

Why would toronto need a change? They have like 6 million people in that city and support one of the crappiest teams don't they? Also have a fairly new arena. That makes no sense whats so ever.

As for the penguins, I think they should stay put where they are because that region supports their team.

[damus]

Why would toronto need a change? They have like 6 million people in that city and support one of the crappiest teams don't they? Also have a fairly new arena. That makes no sense whats so ever.

As for the penguins, I think they should stay put where they are because that region supports their team.

6 Million people doesn't mean anything when no one cares about the sport. Toronto is a Hockey town, and I'm assuming the previous poster was referring to the Raptors as a team wanting to move. I don't think it'll happen, but I can see it as a remote possibility. Think of New York's soccer team. No one gives a crap about soccer. Go to Mexico City and it's a different story. Hell, I'm sure a hockey team would fail there.

[Luca Brasi]

As for the penguins, I think they should stay put where they are because that region supports their team.

Fan support doesn't matter in this case. The two things that matter more here are the economics of a new arena and the revenues it can provide and having an outsider buy the team who is more interested in moving it rather than keeping it where it is. Its the same unfavorable situation Hartford fans were in 10 years ago.

[beerbeer]

The Whalers won exactly one (1) playoff series in their entire tenure in Hartford. Given the lack of success of the team, their fan base and popularity was astounding.

By contrast, the Penquins have deliver muultiple Stanley Cups to Pittsburgh and their support is at the level the Whalers had in Hartford.

The Whalers won morre playoff series in their first season in Carolina than they did in their entire stay in Hartford. If they had done that in Hartford the state would have built them a new area and the fans would have filled it.

[Hartfordfan]

if you go to www.wtic.com you can hear talks with mayor perez, howard baldwin and larry gottesdeiner talk about the possiblity of the nhl coming to hartford.

[drc72]

The Whalers won morre playoff series in their first season in Carolina than they did in their entire stay in Hartford. If they had done that in Hartford the state would have built them a new area and the fans would have filled it.

To bad this didn't happen in 1997.

[uconn99]

Toronto is NOT a basketball city, sorry. Just because they have 6 million people doesn't mean there should be a NBA team. If population was the case, why doesn't the MLS put a team in Mexico City? The raptors have been struggling to find their niche in Toronto. Vancouver failed, and I believe Toronto will fail within 5-10 years. It is just a poor excuse for the NBA to try and globalize its brand 50 miles from the US border.

I was watching the last Whalers game last night. I bought it on eBay for $10, it seriously brought tears to my eyes. Seeing how much the city supported that team, how the team itself was upset about leaving was unbelievable. Anyone who thinks Hartford can't support a team needs to watch this game. I know it

[CanesFan98]

6 Million people doesn't mean anything when no one cares about the sport. Toronto is a Hockey town, and I'm assuming the previous poster was referring to the Raptors as a team wanting to move. I don't think it'll happen, but I can see it as a remote possibility. Think of New York's soccer team. No one gives a crap about soccer. Go to Mexico City and it's a different story. Hell, I'm sure a hockey team would fail there.

No one cares? I doubt that, look at the NBA attendance they still draw better than many big market teams in the US. That is with a crappy team, I am not ignorant enough I guess, because I know about the HISTORY of basketball (NBA). Obviously you guys don't know the future of the organization, which I'd say is pretty bright since they got brian colangelo a little while ago. A team that should move in my opinion is the Grizzlies. They have a good team and draw less than 14,000 on most nights. Maybe they could come to hartford, but it seems to me that more people in hartford want the whalers back.

Real GM

Go here and tell them that toronto is not a viable market.

Further readings

Ok now let me ask you guys something. Your whalers were drawing pretty crappy in the NHL, yet many of you think it is a good hockey market. The Raptors were top 10 in the NBA for many years in terms of attendance, and yet they are unviable?

I don't know how that works.

Wait i'll go one step further, they are outdrawing the Celtics too! So I guess that since boston = bosox city that we can compair the celtics to that soccer anology as the post above said?

2005-06 Attendance	Home	Road	Overall

RNK 	TEAM 	GMS 	TOTAL 	AVG 	PCT 	GMS 	TOTAL 	AVG 	PCT 	GMS 	TOTAL 	AVG 	PCT

1 	Detroit 	36 	794,736 	22,076 	100.0 	39 	725,851 	18,611 	103.6 	75 	1,520,587 	20,274 	101.7

2 	Chicago 	38 	807,275 	21,244 	92.9 	38 	658,859 	17,338 	96.8 	76 	1,466,134 	19,291 	94.6

3 	Dallas 	39 	784,717 	20,120 	104.8 	38 	667,624 	17,569 	99.1 	77 	1,452,341 	18,861 	102.1

4 	Miami 	37 	738,012 	19,946 	101.8 	39 	740,190 	18,979 	105.0 	76 	1,478,202 	19,450 	103.4

5 	Cleveland 	39 	751,267 	19,263 	94.0 	37 	692,439 	18,714 	101.7 	76 	1,443,706 	18,996 	97.5

6 	New York 	39 	736,650 	18,888 	95.6 	36 	625,511 	17,375 	97.7 	75 	1,362,161 	18,162 	96.5

7 	LA Lakers 	36 	679,204 	18,866 	99.0 	41 	771,313 	18,812 	102.7 	77 	1,450,517 	18,837 	100.9

8 	San Antonio 	37 	695,489 	18,797 	101.6 	38 	700,418 	18,432 	103.2 	75 	1,395,907 	18,612 	102.4

9 	Utah 	38 	697,210 	18,347 	89.9 	38 	641,047 	16,869 	92.8 	76 	1,338,257 	17,608 	91.3

10 	Golden State 	37 	676,060 	18,271 	95.2 	38 	633,938 	16,682 	92.0 	75 	1,309,998 	17,466 	93.6

11 	NO/Oklahoma City 	38 	687,963 	18,104 	1333.3 	38 	628,315 	16,534 	88.1 	76 	1,316,278 	17,319 	172.1

12 	Phoenix 	39 	693,335 	17,777 	93.5 	36 	634,417 	17,622 	99.3 	75 	1,327,752 	17,703 	96.2

13 	Sacramento 	37 	640,729 	17,317 	100.0 	40 	682,964 	17,074 	95.7 	77 	1,323,693 	17,190 	97.8

14 	LA Clippers 	38 	657,084 	17,291 	90.7 	37 	621,117 	16,786 	92.2 	75 	1,278,201 	17,042 	91.4

15 	Denver 	39 	668,199 	17,133 	89.7 	38 	675,436 	17,774 	97.8 	77 	1,343,635 	17,449 	93.6

16 	Washington 	38 	646,896 	17,023 	85.1 	37 	633,250 	17,114 	96.0 	75 	1,280,146 	17,068 	90.2

17 	Toronto 	38 	643,496 	16,934 	85.5 	38 	625,459 	16,459 	91.5 	76 	1,268,955 	16,696 	88.4

18 	New Jersey 	38 	637,795 	16,784 	83.7 	37 	651,826 	17,616 	98.0 	75 	1,289,621 	17,194 	90.4

19 	Boston 	37 	618,017 	16,703 	85.2 	39 	703,933 	18,049 	96.9 	76 	1,321,950 	17,394 	91.1

20 	Milwaukee 	37 	612,801 	16,562 	88.5 	39 	662,552 	16,988 	91.3 	76 	1,275,353 	16,780 	89.9

21 	Philadelphia 	39 	640,710 	16,428 	78.2 	37 	688,378 	18,604 	100.9 	76 	1,329,088 	17,488 	88.5

22 	Charlotte 	38 	618,162 	16,267 	00.0 	38 	645,627 	16,990 	89.3 	76 	1,263,789 	16,628 	174.7

23 	Indiana 	37 	599,734 	16,209 	87.6 	38 	664,872 	17,496 	94.2 	75 	1,264,606 	16,861 	90.9

24 	Minnesota 	38 	615,445 	16,195 	87.7 	37 	641,790 	17,345 	95.0 	75 	1,257,235 	16,763 	91.3

25 	Seattle 	38 	613,478 	16,144 	95.0 	37 	632,009 	17,081 	93.0 	75 	1,245,487 	16,606 	94.0

26 	Memphis 	39 	614,748 	15,762 	85.7 	37 	637,543 	17,230 	94.4 	76 	1,252,291 	16,477 	89.9

27 	Orlando 	37 	572,589 	15,475 	89.7 	38 	645,440 	16,985 	93.5 	75 	1,218,029 	16,240 	91.7

28 	Houston 	38 	585,040 	15,395 	84.1 	37 	649,995 	17,567 	99.3 	75 	1,235,035 	16,467 	91.5

29 	Portland 	38 	568,325 	14,955 	72.7 	38 	645,856 	16,996 	96.2 	76 	1,214,181 	15,976 	83.6

30 	Atlanta 	38 	562,167 	14,793 	74.0 	37 	629,364 	17,009 	94.5 	75 	1,191,531 	15,887 	83.6

Looks like houston, Portland, Atlanta, Philly, Boston aren't Basketball cities either. So really what qualifies a city to be an NBA city? I know charlotte isn't really an NBA city and College ball is king around here. Indiana would be the closest thing to an NBA city I'd say but the Colts are the #1 thing. Portland is known as an NBA city, but look at their attendance. Minnesota is a state of hockey no? Eagles are philly, maybe the LA is a true NBA city, but the biggest attendance in the NBA is from detroit... hockeytown USA.

This is the same kind of arguement you guys have for Raliegh not being a decent place for hockey, but guess what? our first round playoff tickets are sold out and second round is almost too. Go canes!

[MadVlad]

Toronto is NOT a basketball city, sorry. Just because they have 6 million people doesn't mean there should be a NBA team. If population was the case, why doesn't the MLS put a team in Mexico City? The raptors have been struggling to find their niche in Toronto. Vancouver failed, and I believe Toronto will fail within 5-10 years. It is just a poor excuse for the NBA to try and globalize its brand 50 miles from the US border.

I was watching the last Whalers game last night. I bought it on eBay for $10, it seriously brought tears to my eyes. Seeing how much the city supported that team, how the team itself was upset about leaving was unbelievable. Anyone who thinks Hartford can't support a team needs to watch this game. I know it

[Luca Brasi]

This is the same kind of arguement you guys have for Raliegh not being a decent place for hockey, but guess what? our first round playoff tickets are sold out and second round is almost too. Go canes!

Raleigh never was and never will be a major league hockey market. Never. How many official high school hockey teams are there in the Carolinas? How many NCAA sanctioned teams? How cash do the Hurricanes hemmorrage year in and year out? Its easy to support a winner. When Carolina can support a loser over 20-some years, then you can talk all the smack you talk on this board. The move to Carolina and the subsequent pathetic fan support has been ridiculed from ESPN to Sports Illustrated to every major newspaper in America. If the Canes are so well supported as you say, why do they operate at a heavy financial loss every year?

Go troll elsewhere - no one is interested in your constant bashing. It seems to be the only reason you come here.

[beerbeer]

Canesffan -- Indiana is a state not a city. You have no idea what you are talking about. Study geography and get back to us.

[drc72]

This is the same kind of arguement you guys have for Raliegh not being a decent place for hockey, but guess what? our first round playoff tickets are sold out and second round is almost too. Go canes!

This explains why everybody can't stand you here. When we get the Whaler's back it will be bitter sweet when the Canes come to town and we give them a good ass whipping like they deserve.

[MadVlad]

Guys, I had no idea what that guy said until you all quoted him. The ignore feature is awesome, I highly recommend using it for people that basically have nothing better to do than troll and make asses of themselves with stupid comments....

[CanesFan98]

Raleigh never was and never will be a major league hockey market. Never. How many official high school hockey teams are there in the Carolinas? How many NCAA sanctioned teams? How cash do the Hurricanes hemmorrage year in and year out? Its easy to support a winner. When Carolina can support a loser over 20-some years, then you can talk all the smack you talk on this board. The move to Carolina and the subsequent pathetic fan support has been ridiculed from ESPN to Sports Illustrated to every major newspaper in America. If the Canes are so well supported as you say, why do they operate at a heavy financial loss every year?

Go troll elsewhere - no one is interested in your constant bashing. It seems to be the only reason you come here.

Are you trying to steal some hockey support from MA? Because no one supports harvard, or quinnepiac (sp) hockey. Your little stadiums are not filled up. By the way, guess who will be breaking even and might even make some profit this year? YES PETER KARMANOS! You guys are so pessimistic. Translation: Don't want to hear things you don't like. If you guys get a team, fine, good for you. However, what makes you more attractive than say Houston, Portland or seattle? If you are going to bring youth hockey into that arguement all three of those cities and surround areas have strong youth hockey. If you are going to bring the Bizjournal study into this, how are you so sure people will come out to support another team just based on income? After all hartford is stuck between boston and New York, so the fan base would be split.

Speaking of ESPN ... is it this espn you guys are bringing up.

Now, fans have returned en masse, and instead of just thinking about the playoffs, the Hurricanes will enter the playoffs among a small group of teams considered Cup favorites. Never mind saving the South for the NHL, the Carolina Hurricanes might just have saved the entire NHL.

[MadVlad]

Ahhhh, the silence is deafening....

[HartfordTycoon]

If you are going to bring the Bizjournal study into this, how are you so sure people will come out to support another team just based on income? After all hartford is stuck between boston and New York, so the fan base would be split.

No it wouldn't because no one in CT gives a rats ass about NY or BOS sports other than the Yankees or the Redsox. That is certainly not even a concern in this debate.

[Luca Brasi]

How ironic that Hartford may end up with an NHL team again while Peter Karmanos rots in NASCAR country with an iron clad lease that doesn't allow him to move and only allows him to continue to lose tens of millions each year. We can only hope.

Karma can be such a b!tch.