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Bring Back The Whale!!!

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I can't see a team ever going to Vegas, either.

Anything is possible.... The Whaler's ended up in North Carolina. before that I would of never guessed.

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Not really adding anything, but I wanted to bring it up: Heard Brass Bonanza get played at Fenway Park the other day, during the Patriots Day Red Sox game. Was good to hear, but it's just not the same as in Hartford.

*watching the Face the State video now*

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turned on 1410 am radio at 4 on friday afternoon and page said that mayor eddie had been on talking about new arena and hockey. page then said that gottesdiener was going to be on this coming week talking about the same, although he didn't say what day. i don't know when page is on exactly either. anyone know his hours on 1410? could be worth listening for.

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Page is on after Mike Tirico at 3PM daily. Not sure when the show ends, I know Stephen A Smith used to have that one hour 3 to 4PM slot, not sure if it is still an hour....

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This looks like a real opportunity. Let's hope Larry G just jumps on it fast and gets the team for a good price.

Lets hope he is in a position to make a move like this right now.

He is in a major lawsuit right now with Tarragon, and he has been spending most of his money as a contrarian buyer of roperties all over the country. I am just not sure how liquid he is right now.

I think many of the moves Northland has made recently will benefit them big time down the road, but as far as being in a position to support 30 million in losses each year I am not so sure.

Now if Northland could get the team, and stem some losses, while building the new arena in Hartford, and also adding significant additional development immediately around the arena, than I think making this move might work. But how do you lose 30 mill a year!!! and then invest further huhdreds of millions into a new arena and surrounding development and expect to come out roses?

I am fairly certain Hartford could do better at the gate, but in the time it takes to get the new arena built etc, the team would have to stay in Glendale, and would continue to gush money

Edited by The Voice of Reason

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Lets hope he is in a position to make a move like this right now.

He is in a major lawsuit right now with Tarragon, and he has been spending most of his money as a contrarian buyer of roperties all over the country. I am just not sure how liquid he is right now.

I think many of the moves Northland has made recently will benefit them big time down the road, but as far as being in a position to support 30 million in losses each year I am not so sure.

Now if Northland could get the team, and stem some losses, while building the new arena in Hartford, and also adding significant additional development immediately around the arena, than I think making this move might work. But how do you lose 30 mill a year!!! and then invest further huhdreds of millions into a new arena and surrounding development and expect to come out roses?

I am fairly certain Hartford could do better at the gate, but in the time it takes to get the new arena built etc, the team would have to stay in Glendale, and would continue to gush money

They could get the team and move them immediately. They could play in the XL Center with a guarantee of a new arena, which would be a done deal if the NHL was involved. They could play at the Casino once construction got under way and come back to Hartford once the new arena was ready. Maybe they can even split time between the Casino, Harbor Yard, and the MassMutual Center in Springfield to drum up local support for a season while their new home is under construction.

VOR, I know you are a fellow wild eyed optimist, but I am having fantasies of a new arena with the Hartford Whalers, UConn Men's and Women's Hoops, and maybe an Arena Football team all splitting time in the new facility. I'm just praying to hear some kind of surprise announcement out of the blue that would set all of this in motion.

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Well, when sports are involved anything is possible. all kinds of monies and wily plans happen when egos, pride and competitive natures are put in play.

Look at OKC!

would anyone have thought that OKC would have a new arena and a NBA team 5-10 years ago?

would you have thought that a company would be building a 1000'tall HQ downtown?

not likely.

While Hartford is not going through any kind of "boom" like OKC, you could concider us to be undergoing some kind of positive push at the very least.

If the arena/Coyotes were to happen I say it would be a banner time in out cities storried and often soiled history. so dream:)

2010 Hartford includes

A nearly finished John T. O'Connell Tower

A topped out AI Technology Center

A nearly completed Coltsville that is now a national park

completed Hollander foundation building

a new arena starting to rise from its foundation

a new residential building growing where the Sonesta hotel once stood with a hotel component built into it.

a mid rise mixed use project being built on the flat parking lot near the metrocenter cady corner to the new arena as part of the new entertainment complex.

front street Phase I completely empty and useless (could not resist)

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Coyotes face potential disaster

Northland and Hartford, are you listening to what is going on in Phoenix?

Jump on this now.

This would be a great opportunity for Hartford to get a team back!!!!

On a side note: The Coyotes where one of the original WHA teams, aka Winnipeg. It's amazing how badly Gary Bettman is screwing up the NHL. This team should of never left Winnipeg!

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This would be a great opportunity for Hartford to get a team back!!!!

On a side note: The Coyotes where one of the original WHA teams, aka Winnipeg. It's amazing how badly Gary Bettman is screwing up the NHL. This team should of never left Winnipeg!

That's right, I forgot about that. Is Winnipeg interested in getting a team back also? Would they get priority over Hartford?

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That's right, I forgot about that. Is Winnipeg interested in getting a team back also? Would they get priority over Hartford?

I doubt the jets could come back.

Winnepeg has not grown too much or gotten wealthier since they lost the team.

Many Canadian cities have done extremely well over the last 10-15 years so its no suprise that Canadian cities have been trying to get teams back or add new teams.

Hamilton Ontario for example is a city of something like 700,000 that is after a team.

and as an old school hockey fan, can I say that I really hate what happened to the league after say 1994

I was a die hard Rangers fan for about a decade at that point, and my 2nd team was the North Stars.

I tolerated the lame ass expansion teams in Florida, because at least Ottowa got a team again finally, but 3 bad and one good moves was suspect. Also Beezer went to Florida so that hurt a little. But Florida at least had the rat thing and there was some love for tradition down there.

But at the same time one of the worst things ever happened. the North Stars went to Dallas. MY GOD!!!!

I will never accept the wild, sorry. lame name even.

I could handle Quebec to Denver because Denver was at least a hockey friwendly locale, and it was clear Quebec City was too small to support Professional hockey.

Jets to Phoenix was one of the last straws for me. How do you make ice in Phoenix??!?!!!

by this time I was honestly losing interest.

I think that annoying streaking puck gayness was the final straw on FOX. not sure what year that was.

but Hartford going to a tiny southern city. crazyness. now I knew hartford was not a huge city, but it was bigger than Raleigh, and more hockey friendly.

Predators and thrashers were just additional insult to injury. At least Atlanta was a huge city, so I can accept that one if I have to.

and then finally in 2000-2001 the league did something right for a change.

adding teams in Columbus and bringing a team back to Minnrsota.

only problem is that at this point the league was bloated by expansion and overpriced players, but a lack of young talent.

lets hope the league makes some smart moves going forward.

any expansions need to be into hockey markets where people actually play the sport, so they know the sport, watch the sport, will go to a game or will watch it on TV.

All relocations should be done simularly.

If an old hockey city like Hartford wants a team, it should have a team.

Lets get the Coyotes to a more Northern climate

same with one of the LA teams and one of the Florida teams.

I would say move the canes too, but they do fill a geographical demand unfortunately.

Seattle or Portland could have a team

Salt Lake City could have a team

Milwaukee

Kansas City

Honestly, Baltimore could have a team

Winnepeg would fill a HUGE geographical hole in Canada

and of course as we all know Hartford would work. It certainly can be argued that we could drive to Boston or NY, but old habits die hard. I would rather have Albany and Springfield people drive to Hartford :)

So yeah now that I have completely vented and such I will add my fantasy Commissioner plan

http://www.commoncensus.org/sports_map.php?sport=4

Re-locations

Ducks to Seattle or Portland

Coyotes back to Winnepeg

Lightning to Salt Lake City

Canes back to Hartford

Expansion

Milwaukee

Kansas City

Bring back the

Wales Conference and Campbell Conference

Allign the teams based on rivalries, not geography

and back into the old divisions.

Campbell Conference

Norris

Smythe

Wales Conference

Adams

Patrick

Also allow a little more Fighting. It might be a detriment to the league some times, but fivalrys lead to fights in every sport, so lets not pretend that Hockey players are all friends.

I dont want the days of Ty Domi to come back, but an enforcer used to actually have a purpose.

and I'm off the soap box

Edited by The Voice of Reason

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If anything, the next team to move will probably be to Hamilton... unless it's severely fought.

There's a guy there by the name of Jim Balsillie, trying to bring a team to southern Ontario. Particuarly the Hamilton area. I remember a couple years back he tried to get the Predators to move up there, did not happen.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nashville_Pre...s_and_aftermath

Edited by Lowerdeck

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If anything, the next team to move will probably be to Hamilton... unless it's severely fought.

There's a guy there by the name of Jim Balsillie, trying to bring a team to southern Ontario. Particuarly the Hamilton area. I remember a couple years back he tried to get the Predators to move up there, did not happen.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nashville_Pre...s_and_aftermath

I have no doubt that Hamilton has a damn good chance of getting the next relocation/expansion team. But I understand that the market is a little too close to Toronto and Buffalo, aso there is some permission required from those teams or something.

Also I think southern Ontario is all ready pretty fragmented as far as team loyalty. You are either a Red Wing fan over by Windsor and up heading towards London/Kitchner and then its Leafs, and sabers as you head toward Niagara. Not so say they would not change allegiances, but southern Ontario has 3 teams near by.

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Don't know what this means, but wow is it good to see that there is some interest on the part of the NHL. I'm am actually pretty damn shocked about this!

Hartford Courant

Courant.com

HARTFORD: City Officials Meet With NHL Chief

January 15, 2009

Mayor Eddie A. Perez and business leaders met Wednesday with National Hockey League Commissioner Gary Bettman in Manhattan to discuss nascent plans for a new arena in the city, Perez said in a press release.

Also at the meeting were Andy Bessette, chief administrative officer of the Travelers Property Casualty Corp., and R. Nelson "Oz" Griebel, head of the MetroHartford Alliance.

City and state officials have long agreed that major league hockey would need a new arena to replace the city-owned XL Center to entice it to Hartford. In the press release, Perez said that the meeting was a good chance for him to tell Bettman that Hartford still wants an NHL team. But he noted that "difficult financial times" mean that it would take "a considerable amount of work" to make an arena a reality.

WTNH.com

Perez goes on to state how he plans to keep the momentum going in Hartford?s renaissance. "We must be prepared in the next three to five years to implement a redevelopment plan for a new multi-use arena facility that serves the entire state not only as a world class venue for concerts, family shows and UCONN Basketball, but also as a potential home for a major league sports franchise," Mayor Perez said. "In light of these difficult financial times, this effort will take a considerable amount of work and partnership between the city, state and corporate community to bring the plans for the development of a new facility to reality, but the benefits have the potential to be exponential."

NHL Fanhouse.com

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New York Times

All is not well, of course, as Shoalts detailed in his main story, researched with the assistance of two N.H.L. owners, which won't please Commissioner Gary Bettman.

Shoalts shows that almost everything the Coyotes own; the rights to the franchise, all equipment, inventory, all government licenses, trademarks, logos, copyrights and insurance policies as well as almost all the revenue, including much of the ticket revenue, N.H.L. broadcasting rights, any share of future expansion or relocation fees, revenue sharing, merchandise sales, concessions, sponsorship contracts and practice-facility rentals is pledged as collateral to SOF Investments, which Shoalts describes as a private equity fund owned by another New York company, MSD Capital, which was set up in 1998 to manage exclusively the capital of computer tycoon Michael Dell and his wife.

The collateral is for loans totaling $80 million. In addition to the loans, the Coyotes have been drawing down on advances the N.H.L. distributes to them from various forms of revenue sharing, which, Shoalts reports, could total $22 million. Among the Coyotes operating expenses is their $42.4 million player payroll.

The club is expected to lose $30 million this season [update 1/13: Shoalts now writes that figure will reach $45 million and ESPN.com's Scott Burnside reports they failed to reach threshold levels for some revenue sharing money from the league].

There's much more to this, of course. (Including Shoalts's amusing sidebar on the team's public campaign to reclaim the $2.70 per ticket it surrenders to the city of Glendale as a parking levy, even though Glendale put up $180 million of the $220 million to build what is called the Jobing.com Arena and gets little other revenue from the building. By our calculations, if the team got that extra $2.70 per car from, say, 8,000 cars a game; a generous estimate given their attendance for each of their 41 home games, the amount would come to less than $900,000 for the season, which would hardly improve their monetary woes).

What's not clear is whether other N.H.L. teams are enduring similar financial misadventure. There have long been whispers that many of the league's teams are carrying unhealthy amounts of debt, and lots of clubs could be highly leveraged but not hemorrhaging as the Coyotes are. Debt is a way of life here in the States, both consumer and corporate. (Government too, come to think of it.)

Things get even more interesting, however, in Brunt's column accompanying Shoalts's stories. (On most weekday afternoons, we stop everything to hear Brunt's 4:25 p.m. segment on Melnick in the Afternoon over Montreal's Team 990 radio, where, it is advertised, Brunt makes sense of it all.) After wonderfully encapsulating, decorating and amplifying Shoats's findings, Brunt writes that the Coyotes are merely the first domino. In Brunt's view and the view of many who bemoan the N.H.L.'s ambitious move to the Sun Belt of the last two decades the missionary work that bum-rushed hockey out of traditional markets and into the American South in order to save it, has in fact, torpedoed the league.

Historically, the Coyotes are a symptom, not the disease, Brunt writes. They exist in their current straits because of the N.H.L.'s rose-coloured aspirations to conquer America, aspirations that had been kicked around for decades but really took flight after Gretzky was sold to the Los Angeles Kings in 1988 and set off hockey mania in Southern California. The Phoenix franchise shifted from Winnipeg because the league had in theory outgrown that city and the market. The question of solid, grassroots hockey interest was beside the point; the sport packaged properly, the conceit was that the league could sell it to anyone.

Well said. Except that's not exactly the way it happened when it came to N.H.L. franchise relocation.

The Winnipeg Jets, like the Quebec Nordiques and the Hartford Whalers and nearly the Pittsburgh Penguins all relocated in the mid-90s, but not entirely because of the league's desire to expand its footprint in the warmer climes of the U.S. (although that was certainly a main plank of the early Bettman regime). These teams, well rooted as they were, didn't outgrow their cities in theory, but in fact.

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Toronto Star

Now Hartford is in the middle of a revitalization, Perez said. There are more jobs downtown, new hotels opening and a convention centre was recently built, he said. The city wants to tear down the civic centre and build a new arena in the same location.

"(An NHL team) helps attract the kind of employers we want, it helps enhance our quality of life, it puts our state and city on the map on the national stage," said Perez, acknowledging the current North American-wide recession could become a barrier.

"Just because the economy has turned sour nationally, it doesn't mean we shouldn't stay with the plan that we have."

Perez didn't get a thumbs-up or thumbs-down from Bettman, but came away feeling as if Hartford had a shot if the NHL is looking to relocate or expand in the five years it would take for a new arena to be approved, financed and built.

"Nothing is going to happen overnight," said Perez. "I was impressed with the commissioner's historical knowledge of our market, of knowing we have some market potential here. ... He knew exactly where we were as a market, and what the potential may be and how to turn that potential into a real business proposition."

Examiner.com

Could the Whalers be returning to the NHL?Back in the late 80

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The author hit the nail on the head with this quote..............

In Brunt's view and the view of many who bemoan the N.H.L.'s ambitious move to the Sun Belt of the last two decades the missionary work that bum-rushed hockey out of traditional markets and into the American South in order to save it, has in fact, torpedoed the league.

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New York Times

All is not well, of course, as Shoalts detailed in his main story, researched with the assistance of two N.H.L. owners, which won't please Commissioner Gary Bettman.

Shoalts shows that almost everything the Coyotes own; the rights to the franchise, all equipment, inventory, all government licenses, trademarks, logos, copyrights and insurance policies as well as almost all the revenue, including much of the ticket revenue, N.H.L. broadcasting rights, any share of future expansion or relocation fees, revenue sharing, merchandise sales, concessions, sponsorship contracts and practice-facility rentals is pledged as collateral to SOF Investments, which Shoalts describes as a private equity fund owned by another New York company, MSD Capital, which was set up in 1998 to manage exclusively the capital of computer tycoon Michael Dell and his wife.

The collateral is for loans totaling $80 million. In addition to the loans, the Coyotes have been drawing down on advances the N.H.L. distributes to them from various forms of revenue sharing, which, Shoalts reports, could total $22 million. Among the Coyotes operating expenses is their $42.4 million player payroll.

The club is expected to lose $30 million this season [update 1/13: Shoalts now writes that figure will reach $45 million and ESPN.com's Scott Burnside reports they failed to reach threshold levels for some revenue sharing money from the league].

There's much more to this, of course. (Including Shoalts's amusing sidebar on the team's public campaign to reclaim the $2.70 per ticket it surrenders to the city of Glendale as a parking levy, even though Glendale put up $180 million of the $220 million to build what is called the Jobing.com Arena and gets little other revenue from the building. By our calculations, if the team got that extra $2.70 per car from, say, 8,000 cars a game; a generous estimate given their attendance for each of their 41 home games, the amount would come to less than $900,000 for the season, which would hardly improve their monetary woes).

What's not clear is whether other N.H.L. teams are enduring similar financial misadventure. There have long been whispers that many of the league's teams are carrying unhealthy amounts of debt, and lots of clubs could be highly leveraged but not hemorrhaging as the Coyotes are. Debt is a way of life here in the States, both consumer and corporate. (Government too, come to think of it.)

Things get even more interesting, however, in Brunt's column accompanying Shoalts's stories. (On most weekday afternoons, we stop everything to hear Brunt's 4:25 p.m. segment on Melnick in the Afternoon over Montreal's Team 990 radio, where, it is advertised, Brunt makes sense of it all.) After wonderfully encapsulating, decorating and amplifying Shoats's findings, Brunt writes that the Coyotes are merely the first domino. In Brunt's view and the view of many who bemoan the N.H.L.'s ambitious move to the Sun Belt of the last two decades the missionary work that bum-rushed hockey out of traditional markets and into the American South in order to save it, has in fact, torpedoed the league.

Historically, the Coyotes are a symptom, not the disease, Brunt writes. They exist in their current straits because of the N.H.L.'s rose-coloured aspirations to conquer America, aspirations that had been kicked around for decades but really took flight after Gretzky was sold to the Los Angeles Kings in 1988 and set off hockey mania in Southern California. The Phoenix franchise shifted from Winnipeg because the league had in theory outgrown that city and the market. The question of solid, grassroots hockey interest was beside the point; the sport packaged properly, the conceit was that the league could sell it to anyone.

Well said. Except that's not exactly the way it happened when it came to N.H.L. franchise relocation.

The Winnipeg Jets, like the Quebec Nordiques and the Hartford Whalers and nearly the Pittsburgh Penguins all relocated in the mid-90s, but not entirely because of the league's desire to expand its footprint in the warmer climes of the U.S. (although that was certainly a main plank of the early Bettman regime). These teams, well rooted as they were, didn't outgrow their cities in theory, but in fact.

if you accept the story in terms of the moves being a terrible mistake business-wise for the league, then i wouldn't say that the teams outgrew their cities. hockey is what it is. the nhl is not mlb, nfl, nba ncaa football, ncaa hoops, pga. nascar, and more. it is beneath these businesses and should have stayed where they belong. want to see growth? x games, volleyball, moto, mixed martial. nhl hasn't outgrown anything in the last 20 years. it's right there with the rodeo. either you love it or it isn't on the radar.

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