Everything Conway

[Aporkalypse]

Don't forget to take into account UA desgination as a research university. UCA was cut from the mold as a teaching and undergraduate college. When looking at so many prominent universities they are driven to the top by research activity. UCA has a very long way to go in that respect. I think that will be a key force in UA maintaining its hegemony over Arkansas higher education.

ASU is also D-1 like Arkansas. Its just the Sunbelt is really a glorified I-AA conference.

I was going to post that as well about the DI. Actually some Jonesboro papers and stations got riled up because Arkansas called itself the only DI school in the state in some recruiting literature, something I doubt the administrators making it meant as a slight but merely did out of ignorance.

UA will always be the flagship school in Arkansas, always has and always will. What we're seeing going on at UCA is that it has clearly passed, in my mind, ASU and UALR to become the state's best 2nd option amongst state schools. I think degrees from there are better-respected than those from other state schools save UA, though a UA degree is valued more than any state school by far. I think as Conway continues to grow and develop into a more well-rounded city UCA will really benefit.

I think UCA definitely fills an important role for the state.

[hogwash]

UCA is coming into its own but it will probably end up having a relationship with UA like Misery State (formerly SMS) does with Mizurah. Mizzou has about 28,000 students while Missouri State has near 18-20,000. However, MSU is largely overshadowed by Mizzou because MSU was a directional school, has a lack of research, doesn't play D-1 atheltics, etc.

I wonder if UCA will ever change its name. I think fair or not, having a directional name decreases a schools reputation. What could it change its name too? State University of Arkansas at Conway? Arkansas University? University of the Mid-South? Cadron University?

[Aporkalypse]

UCA is coming into its own but it will probably end up having a relationship with UA like Misery State (formerly SMS) does with Mizurah. Mizzou has about 28,000 students while Missouri State has near 18-20,000. However, MSU is largely overshadowed by Mizzou because MSU was a directional school, has a lack of research, doesn't play D-1 atheltics, etc.

I wonder if UCA will ever change its name. I think fair or not, having a directional name decreases a schools reputation. What could it change its name too? State University of Arkansas at Conway? Arkansas University? University of the Mid-South? Cadron University?

I doubt it ever changes its name but if it did I can't imagine any of those. Maybe just Conway University.

[Arkansas Student]

I doubt it ever changes its name but if it did I can't imagine any of those. Maybe just Conway University.

I've wondered if UCA will change its name as well, and I've imagined what it might be. The directional designation does hurt any school's prominance, and the "State" designation is already taken. I don't think the powers that be would be too happy with "Arkansas University" b/c it sort of encroaches on UA's territory.

Since the "Tech" moniker is also taken, that only leave the "A&M" or naming it after a city or person. UCA is decidedly not an A&M school, so what's really left? It was State College of Arkansas at one time, but that seems like a downgrade.

Who knows? I think they'll just ride out the directional name and deal with the consequences. At least until UCA incorporates/takes over some of the smaller colleges and two year schools, creating yet another university system in Arkansas.

On a side note, we have too many 4 year schools.

[skirby]

I've wondered if UCA will change its name as well, and I've imagined what it might be. The directional designation does hurt any school's prominance, and the "State" designation is already taken. I don't think the powers that be would be too happy with "Arkansas University" b/c it sort of encroaches on UA's territory.

Since the "Tech" moniker is also taken, that only leave the "A&M" or naming it after a city or person. UCA is decidedly not an A&M school, so what's really left? It was State College of Arkansas at one time, but that seems like a downgrade.

Who knows? I think they'll just ride out the directional name and deal with the consequences. At least until UCA incorporates/takes over some of the smaller colleges and two year schools, creating yet another university system in Arkansas.

On a side note, we have too many 4 year schools.

If a directional designation hurts a school them maybe you should inform USC.

[Aporkalypse]

If a directional designation hurts a school them maybe you should inform USC.

Well, Southern California could be its own state and still be 2nd largest. That's a different animal than Central Arkansas.

I agree it kind of weakens it a bit, like "Central Connecticut".

As an aside, I wish UAMS and UALR would consolidate into one site of the UA system, much like UAB. I think it would strengthen both entities.

[tim2462]

Honestly, I don't think a school having a directional part in their name hurts them at all. People choose where to go to school for many reasons. I seriously doubt the C in UCA ever even enters their decision process. The school has 14,000 students now, compared to only 8,500 when I was there in 2000. That should tell you something.

[theman]

Well, Southern California could be its own state and still be 2nd largest. That's a different animal than Central Arkansas.

I agree it kind of weakens it a bit, like "Central Connecticut".

As an aside, I wish UAMS and UALR would consolidate into one site of the UA system, much like UAB. I think it would strengthen both entities.

That won't happen b/c they both are going to want to keep their seperate identities. UALR as an urban university will focus on non traditional students and continue in its involvement with the surrounding community, city and central Arkansas with some research. UAMS is going to focus on research and getting more funds to have more medical, nursing and pharmacy students to attend UAMS and to expand the School of Public Health.

Also, the fact that both campuses have grown so much over the past several years, I don't see either school abandoning their current campus. There is so much cooperation between the two schools now that I don't feel that both of them coming together at the same site is necessary.

[Aporkalypse]

That won't happen b/c they both are going to want to keep their seperate identities. UALR as an urban university will focus on non traditional students and continue in its involvement with the surrounding community, city and central Arkansas with some research. UAMS is going to focus on research and getting more funds to have more medical, nursing and pharmacy students to attend UAMS and to expand the School of Public Health.

Also, the fact that both campuses have grown so much over the past several years, I don't see either school abandoning their current campus. There is so much cooperation between the two schools now that I don't feel that both of them coming together at the same site is necessary.

I understand what you're saying but the same is true of UAB, which is a branch of the University of Alabama. Their medical school is considerably better than UA in terms of research and in pretty much any other way you could think of and the undergraduate campus is larger and more rounded than UALR as well.

Now, I'm not saying move either campus - that could never happen. Just bring them under one banner. There is no real cooperation between the schools, UAMS doesn't have any more involvement with UALR than it does UCA. In fact, UCA probably has closer ties.

[MSU Alum]

UCA is coming into its own but it will probably end up having a relationship with UA like Misery State (formerly SMS) does with Mizurah. Mizzou has about 28,000 students while Missouri State has near 18-20,000. However, MSU is largely overshadowed by Mizzou because MSU was a directional school, has a lack of research, doesn't play D-1 atheltics, etc.

I wonder if UCA will ever change its name. I think fair or not, having a directional name decreases a schools reputation. What could it change its name too? State University of Arkansas at Conway? Arkansas University? University of the Mid-South? Cadron University?

Hogwash,

Not sure what your beef is with Missouri State. Apparently you're a Mizzou fan masquerading as an Arkansan. Quit posting incorrect crap on here. Missouri State plays all D1 sports except for football (1AA).

Edited January 15, 2007 by MSU Alum

[hogwash]

Honestly, I don't think a school having a directional part in their name hurts them at all. People choose where to go to school for many reasons. I seriously doubt the C in UCA ever even enters their decision process. The school has 14,000 students now, compared to only 8,500 when I was there in 2000. That should tell you something.

It affected my decision quite a lot. It has a greater effect for those out of state because usually they discredit its offerings right away. Southern Cal is the exception not the norm. Personally, I like the name State University of Arkansas because its too easily confused with ASU and the whole thing about ASU being at State University

Hogwash,

Not sure what your beef is with Missouri State. Apparently you're a Mizzou fan masquerading as an Arkansan. Quit posting incorrect crap on here. Missouri State plays all D1 sports except for football (1AA).

Sorry that's just my ignorance I should know better. Regardless SMS is a I-AA school. I'm a UA grad don't be so paranoid.

I doubt UAMS will ever join any other campus for so long it was attached to UAF and they finally begrudgingly let it become its own university in the system. I don't believe they'd ever give it up to little brother - UALR and definitely not the competition - UCA

Edited January 15, 2007 by hogwash

[mcheiss]

Hogwash,

Not sure what your beef is with Missouri State. Apparently you're a Mizzou fan masquerading as an Arkansan. Quit posting incorrect crap on here. Missouri State plays all D1 sports except for football (1AA).

I've noticed a pattern in your posting and I don't like it. Either post some positive material or please leave MSUAlum.

[hogwash]

I'm sorry I joked about Missouri. It was not intended to inflame or anger anyone. The term Mizurah and Misery are used in my vernacular just as Arkanslaw and Orkahoma. Its a play on words. I'm sorry anyone took offense at my statement. SMS is a fine school and has produced many smart, accomplished individuals as well fine basketball players.

[MSU Alum]

I've noticed a pattern in your posting and I don't like it. Either post some positive material or please leave MSUAlum.

Mcheiss,

My only posts have been to point out inaccuracies in other posts. If you have a problem with accuracy, perhaps you should give up your position as a moderator of this board. I will continue to bring truth, justice, and the American way to UP. Why don't you just keep on "rolling back prices" for the big blue machine and let the big kids play.

Edited January 17, 2007 by MSU Alum

[theman]

I understand what you're saying but the same is true of UAB, which is a branch of the University of Alabama. Their medical school is considerably better than UA in terms of research and in pretty much any other way you could think of and the undergraduate campus is larger and more rounded than UALR as well.

Now, I'm not saying move either campus - that could never happen. Just bring them under one banner. There is no real cooperation between the schools, UAMS doesn't have any more involvement with UALR than it does UCA. In fact, UCA probably has closer ties.

Maybe their undergraduate campus is larger because it's in a larger metro and maybe their state doesn't underfund higher ed like Arkansas does. Same goes with the medical school as to why it ranks higher.

The schools are already under one banner, the UA system. In a perfect world, they both would get more funding from the state and be better institutions than they are today, even though they aren't bad now. Both have been held back because most of the emphasis has been on providing funding to the U of A and b/c Arkansas has too many 4yr and 2 yr schools.

[Architect]

UCA is coming into its own but it will probably end up having a relationship with UA like Misery State (formerly SMS) does with Mizurah. Mizzou has about 28,000 students while Missouri State has near 18-20,000. However, MSU is largely overshadowed by Mizzou because MSU was a directional school, has a lack of research, doesn't play D-1 atheltics, etc.

I wonder if UCA will ever change its name. I think fair or not, having a directional name decreases a schools reputation. What could it change its name too? State University of Arkansas at Conway? Arkansas University? University of the Mid-South? Cadron University?

WHAT! That's ridiculous! Do you seriously think the "name" makes or breaks a school's reputation - specifically "directional" as you say? The name was actually a part of your college selection criteria? Why don't you ask USC or Northwestern how that's working out for them.

Edited January 17, 2007 by Architect

[mcheiss]

Mcheiss,

My only posts have been to point out inaccuracies in other posts. If you have a problem with accuracy, perhaps you should give up your position as a moderator of this board. I will continue to bring truth, justice, and the American way to UP. Why don't you just keep on "rolling back prices" for the big blue machine and let the big kids play.

I don't mind you correcting other people's posts. I've got a problem with you downplaying others with unnecessary language. We don't allow that at Urban Planet. Clean up your attitude, or I'll clean up your posts and your account.

[hogwash]

It won't BREAK their reputation, but it certainly doesn't help it.

If it weren't a burden, why did both Southwest Missouri State and Southwest Texas State both change to simply MO and TX State? Right or wrong people make jokes about directional schools. It does make a difference. Yes, the name was a part of my criteria, but I wasn't really considering UCA anyways. It didn't offer my field of study.

USC and Northwestern are both private schools mind you and exceptions to the rule. Northwestern is not even really what I mean by directional anyways. Name a public school with a directional name that has national prominence.

My sister attended an Arkansas directional school and applied for a fellowship at Emory Univ. She was a finalist, they flew her out to Atlanta to wine and dine her, but ultimately it wasn't her qualifications or anything about HER that made her lose out. The other candidates were fairly equally qualified but they didn't come from a directional school in Arkansas. I didn't want that to happen to me. I'm sure I would have recieved a great education at many of the other Arkansas schools. If I was going to stay in-state I wanted to make sure I went somewhere that had name recognition.

I'm not trying to slight UCA. I think its a fine school and could be made better if it were eventually given a name more befitting of its position in the state.

I know what you mean it does sound silly but hey....

Edited January 17, 2007 by hogwash

[cozmosis]

I've never understood the hatred for a directional name.

I wish I'd graduated from a directional school.

I'm a graduate of the University of Louisiana at Monroe. ULM was known as Northeast Louisiana something-or-the-other for the better part of six decades -- Northeast Center of LSU, Northeast Louisiana State College, Northeast Louisiana University. In 1999, the then-president of the university sold our soul to the devil and we became ULM. The reason given was that double directional schools somehow lacked the credibility that a school named after a city had.

Hogwash.

The name change accomplished nothing. In fact, enrollment and available classes dropped until that president had to resign in shame in 2002. The name doesn't matter.

[hogwash]

I've never understood the hatred for a directional name.

I wish I'd graduated from a directional school.

I'm a graduate of the University of Louisiana at Monroe. ULM was known as Northeast Louisiana something-or-the-other for the better part of six decades -- Northeast Center of LSU, Northeast Louisiana State College, Northeast Louisiana University. In 1999, the then-president of the university sold our soul to the devil and we became ULM. The reason given was that double directional schools somehow lacked the credibility that a school named after a city had.

Hogwash.

The name change accomplished nothing. In fact, enrollment and available classes dropped until that president had to resign in shame in 2002. The name doesn't matter.

I'm not saying a name change is a panacea. It certiainly doesn't cure problems like a lack of proper funding. A school may not even reap the rewards of the name change for many, many years down the road. You say it accomplished nothing, that YOU know of as of TODAY. It something that is hard to prove either way, but its my strong belief that is does matter and does have an effect.

If you take a look at a list of the top institutions listed by US News and World Report, you won't find any directionally named public schools.

This whole discussion is meaningless and way off topic regardless. The point is UCA is becoming a bigger player in the landscape of Arkansas Higher Education. Lu Hardin does an excellent job and is a true leader with vision.

[MSU Alum]

I don't mind you correcting other people's posts. I've got a problem with you downplaying others with unnecessary language. We don't allow that at Urban Planet. Clean up your attitude, or I'll clean up your posts and your account.

Mcheiss,

According to UP's "Board Rules", you also don't allow the following:

1) Do not create posts to antagonize other forumers. Doing so will result in the post being deleted, and as a minimum an immediate suspension.

2) Do not bash cities, states, countries or regions

Two of my posts that you have a problem with are directly related to other users of this board breaking these rules. In this thread, my home state was referred to as "Misery". In the NWA "McDonald County" thread, my state, and Springfield, were also being bashed and/or misrepresented. Please do not continue to uphold only the rules you deem are important.

Edited January 18, 2007 by MSU Alum

[turboturtle]

There is no real cooperation between the schools, UAMS doesn't have any more involvement with UALR than it does UCA. In fact, UCA probably has closer ties.

What do you mean by "real cooperation?" I work at UALR. I am aware of several instances of involvement between UALR and UAMS. UAMS students in the College of Public Health take courses taught by UALR faculty. One of the UAMS colleges plans to convert to an enterprise application that UALR implemented in 2000. There is a proposal to support the application with UALR IT staff. The precedent for this is that UALR's IT department currently supports the AR School for Math and Science and the Clinton School of Public Sevice. UALR and UAMS often work together in the UA System as a counter weight to UAF, often to no avail.

Please substantiate your claim that "In fact, UCA probably has closer ties." I am curious.

UCA is doing a lot of things right, and so is Pulaski Tech. If you look at PT enrollment numbers over the past 5+ years, I believe the rate of growth is even greater than UCA. Due to the number of entering freshmen who require remediation, UALR is considering raising the academic standards for admission. If this plan is adopted more students will be directed to Pulaski Tech and enrollment would like likely drop. UALR already has a full time recruitment officer at Pulaski Tech. The goal is to ultimately increase the graduation rate at UALR by recruiting those students with proven academic track records.

Enrollment numbers are important, and so are graduation rates. There are numerous tricks an institution can do to inflate enrollment, such as count high school students who take a course while still in high school. It is more difficult to inflate graduation rates. I think graduation rates are the meat of the story of how a institution is performing. There is higher ed legislation to tie funding more to graduation rates. I think this is generally very positive. After all, we want our higher ed institutions to produce college graduates who we hope stay in Arkansas, right?

Edited January 19, 2007 by turboturtle

[skirby]

What do you mean by "real cooperation?" I work at UALR. I am aware of several instances of involvement between UALR and UAMS. UAMS students in the College of Public Health take courses taught by UALR faculty. One of the UAMS colleges plans to convert to an enterprise application that UALR implemented in 2000. There is a proposal to support the application with UALR IT staff. The precedent for this is that UALR's IT department currently supports the AR School for Math and Science and the Clinton School of Public Sevice. UALR and UAMS often work together in the UA System as a counter weight to UAF, often to no avail.

Please substantiate your claim that "In fact, UCA probably has closer ties." I am curious.

UCA is doing a lot of things right, and so is Pulaski Tech. If you look at PT enrollment numbers over the past 5+ years, I believe the rate of growth is even greater than UCA. Due to the number of entering freshmen who require remediation, UALR is considering raising the academic standards for admission. If this plan is adopted more students will be directed to Pulaski Tech and enrollment would like likely drop. UALR already has a full time recruitment officer at Pulaski Tech. The goal is to ultimately increase the graduation rate at UALR by recruiting those students with proven academic track records.

Enrollment numbers are important, and so are graduation rates. There are numerous tricks an institution can do to inflate enrollment, such as count high school students who take a course while still in high school. It is more difficult to inflate graduation rates. I think graduation rates are the meat of the story of how a institution is performing. There is higher ed legislation to tie funding more to graduation rates. I think this is generally very positive. After all, we want our higher ed institutions to produce college graduates who we hope stay in Arkansas, right?

You bring up a good point about colleges that inflate their enrollment numbers. One of the reasons for UCA's increase is due to it counting high school students who are still in high school. I read last fall this accounts for hundreds of students at UCA. When state funding is based on enrollment then there will always be tricks played.

[Aporkalypse]

What do you mean by "real cooperation?" I work at UALR. I am aware of several instances of involvement between UALR and UAMS. UAMS students in the College of Public Health take courses taught by UALR faculty. One of the UAMS colleges plans to convert to an enterprise application that UALR implemented in 2000. There is a proposal to support the application with UALR IT staff. The precedent for this is that UALR's IT department currently supports the AR School for Math and Science and the Clinton School of Public Sevice. UALR and UAMS often work together in the UA System as a counter weight to UAF, often to no avail.

Please substantiate your claim that "In fact, UCA probably has closer ties." I am curious.

UCA is doing a lot of things right, and so is Pulaski Tech. If you look at PT enrollment numbers over the past 5+ years, I believe the rate of growth is even greater than UCA. Due to the number of entering freshmen who require remediation, UALR is considering raising the academic standards for admission. If this plan is adopted more students will be directed to Pulaski Tech and enrollment would like likely drop. UALR already has a full time recruitment officer at Pulaski Tech. The goal is to ultimately increase the graduation rate at UALR by recruiting those students with proven academic track records.

Enrollment numbers are important, and so are graduation rates. There are numerous tricks an institution can do to inflate enrollment, such as count high school students who take a course while still in high school. It is more difficult to inflate graduation rates. I think graduation rates are the meat of the story of how a institution is performing. There is higher ed legislation to tie funding more to graduation rates. I think this is generally very positive. After all, we want our higher ed institutions to produce college graduates who we hope stay in Arkansas, right?

Remember, I spent 8 years of med school and residency at UAMS and 3 summers doing research before that. I never went to UCA or UALR (except for one summer class at UALR) and I'm impartial.

The MPH stuff is new and a very small program but I wasn't aware of the joint cooperation of that program. That's good.

UCA nursing and allied health professions seem to spend a lot more time rotating at UAMS than UALR students. The state's only physical therapy and occupational therapy schools are at UCA and those students spend much of their time at UAMS, it's essentially a cooperative program.

UAMS gives no preference to UALR students in admissions. In fact UCA usually gets in roughly 3 times as many applicants to med school. This is a tiny number compared to Hendrix, though, let alone to UA which usually is the largest contingent by far - usually 1/3 to 1/2 of the total class.

In Alabama the medical school at UAB is intergrated with the undergraduate school. It also happens to be a MUCH better medical school/hospital than UAMS. The medical school significantly lifts the reputation of UAB.

[CentralArkansas]

I

So, I think these two very different options for living spaces will definitely drive the competition between the 2 schools. Also, in the world of athletics, as most people know UCA is moving to Division I-AA, putting them in the same league as UAPB & ASU (but not the same conference). This past year, UCA beat all the opponents they played from their inteneded new conference, and had they been eligible for post-season play The Bears probably would have been in the conference playoffs. Football is really on the up-and-up @ UCA. Of course, the Razorbacks had a pretty good year as well, so the competition between athletics remains fierce. UA still has far-and-away the nicest athletic facilities.

Not only is competition not "fierce," but there is no competition. UCA is not even in the same conversation with the UA in athletics. Not bashing, they are doing a great job, but it's just a fact.

The competition should be fun to watch. As an alumn of both UCA & UA, I don't know who to root for.

Why not both?