Doing business in Grand Rapids

[GRDadof3]

I agree to an extent. How will people even know about an area without having a reason to go visit that area. Most people are not Urban Warriers (like some of you) just going to experience urban life in other cities. They go because of a convention, or to visit family or friends, or take a vacation. When family comes to visit you from out of state, you want to take them somewhere where they'll be impressed. What do we have now? TaureanJ was taken to Rivertown Crossings (nothing against his family or friends, but what alternative did they have this time of year).

We do have the Meijer Gardens

The Wildlife Park idea was shot down

The expanded convention center should help a lot

Michigan's Adventure can now have access to city water, which is already driving expansion plans

Reasons that companies relocate to an area is low cost of doing business, but they also do it because they want to attract the best in the industry to come work for them. They want to be affiliated with a "winner" city. This comes from exemplary schools, recreation, "coolness", entertainment, sports, and many more quality-of-life amenities. Are we heading in that direction?

My $.0315.

[HolidayInnExpress]

I am simply using the term

[GRDadof3]

Speaking of cool, what do you guys think of these two stories:

OurEnergy touts online shopping

Sustainability could mean prosperity for region

Are these viable "clusters" of ideas that should be invested in?

[201test]

"...too many people are simply satisfied with the way things are. "

-- Very well said, HolidayInnExpress. I think the hooks are here, we just need the will and energy to pursue them. We are 35 miles from one of the lagest recreational bodies of fresh water in the world -- and just now starting to market that. We don't have a research instutition like other midwest success stories (Columbus, OH), but do have solid schools in GVSU, Aquinas, Calvin and others. We have world-class health care at costs lower than just about anywhere else in the country. Culturally, we stand with much larger cities thanks to FMG.

Apologies to Nova (no mas!), but I think we can only blame the state for so much of our lack of measurable successes drawing biz downtown. The City does do a good job on some things (free recycling, wireless points) but I wouldn't put business attraction or even business accomodation (!) on that list today.

I'm simply not willing to accept this is the best we can do. The energy and optimism on this thread alone tells me otherwise.

[superNOVA]

The article implied that this all happened for 3 reasons, the regions low cost of living, its low cost of doing business, and to a lesser extent the music industry.

Music industry withstanding I already said that these are two barriers.

Michigan is percieved to be a high cost State due to the proximity to the Union heartland (Detroit). Average wages for unskilled workers in Michigan are $23/hr, in GR they are $19/hr, in the South they are $8 (in Arkansas) to about $13 (the national average). Hence, even though GR is less expensive than the rest of the State it is still extremely expensive. These localized inflation issues create higher costs of living. One reason why high minimum wages are bad and Unions are bad. You really are not making more, you are simply driving your local inflation bubble.

Secondly, Michigan is one of the worst States to do business. Except for a short and successful run by MEDC in the 90s to attract business Granholm and Blanchard are typical Democrats. All about the Unions and labor issues. This does nothing for the perception of the State. When Engler was governor, Michigan landed on the top spot of Site Selection's yearly market expansion list multiple times. I don't think we were ever out of the top five. Point is, we need to quit coddling labor to create a new and receptive atmosphere for expansion. Grand Rapids is somewhat isolated but the stigma still burns us.

The solution. Well, since we cannot change everyones viewpoint of Detroit and labor we need to look elsewhere. I think that the move to biotech is well planned and has a much better payoff than any commercial venture.

By the way - the average wage of a services worker in an office tower is under $10/hr. They are not full of rich suits, office towers imply many direct service workers. Suited for banks, insurance companies, etc... While the companies may be rich, they are often public, and they rarely have many high paid employees.

So, Nashville landed these businesses but essentially got little in terms of real local long term investment. If wage pressures increas there you better believe that they will be looking for the next cheap spot. This is why it is better to cultivate local business and small business. Much more reliable in terms of long term investment and growth.

I also still think that most here have no clue as to the scope and diversity of the Grand Rapids economy. Nor of the daily shifts of the corporate world and exactly what companies have a presence in this town. If you did a bit of looking you would be quite surprised.

[201test]

I also still think that most here have no clue as to the scope and diversity of the Grand Rapids economy. Nor of the daily shifts of the corporate world and exactly what companies have a presence in this town. If you did a bit of looking you would be quite surprised.

Please - let's not make assumptions about posters. I'll defer to Nova's historical and sociological knowledge all day long, despite the Right Place apologist perspective. But for all we know Jim Hackett and Rick Breon could be on here every day -- we do have 4,000, after all.

[superNOVA]

Not quite. I have just been around town working in many industries. Currently I do IT work but I have done pretty much a little bit of everything including work as an Economist and some Marketing.

I genuinely think that there is a wide ranging ignorance as to the scope of this economy.

[Prankster]

Yup, we all is just a bunch of ignorants. Glad we got them edumacated people here to keep us enlightened.

[Rizzo]

Hold on, I don't think we should right off superNOVA... With ideology aside, he makes some valid arguments. If his facts are straight, then we as a city should be damn proud and build off of that. I think more then anything GR needs a PR dream team. We need to start off locally with a PR blitz. Know your city!

[201test]

Could be. I think PR for the region is as strong as it's ever been: national recognition for the Gardens, Spectrum, the Lakeshore campaign etc. Very good stuff.

I respect our statistical economic position and strengths on paper. But as a downtown business owner who works with many of the area's other largest employers pretty regularly, I can say that current perception of the City as a business destination seems kinda lousy. Bridgewater and others have lost major tenants to the burbs.

Maybe we should start smaller and think about downtown business retention. Half-empty buildings don't do much for new biz recruitment and we got a few.

[GRDadof3]

By the way - the average wage of a services worker in an office tower is under $10/hr. They are not full of rich suits, office towers imply many direct service workers. Suited for banks, insurance companies, etc... While the companies may be rich, they are often public, and they rarely have many high paid employees.

I also still think that most here have no clue as to the scope and diversity of the Grand Rapids economy. Nor of the daily shifts of the corporate world and exactly what companies have a presence in this town. If you did a bit of looking you would be quite surprised.

OK, I disagree. I worked at a LARGE insurance company in Caledonia (I'm sure you can all guess who), and even the call-center customer service people made more than $10/hour (and that was 7 years ago). There were hundreds of people in underwriting, actuarial, marketing, IT, and many other departments making $15 - $25/hr.

I too have worked in many different industries in my years here, many of which in plastics manufacturing. I know that pretty much every automotive supplier in this town holds their breathe each year hoping they're going to survive another round of GM/Ford/Chrysler/Lear givebacks, or not be victim of supplier consolidation. Yes, the economy is diverse, but so what? If you're OK with how things are, that's fine. I think the economy here is much better than the media would lead us to believe, but I don't for a minute think it's good enough.

I do agree that the fault does not lie at the State level.

[superNOVA]

OK, I disagree. I worked at a LARGE insurance company in Caledonia (I'm sure you can all guess who), and even the call-center customer service people made more than $10/hour (and that was 7 years ago). There were hundreds of people in underwriting, actuarial, marketing, IT, and many other departments making $15 - $25/hr.

And that is why Grand Rapids and Michigan in particular are not competitive. The wage and inflation pressures created by high paying labor Unions have created this problem. Yes, this is the wage here, it is even higher in Detroit. The national average wage across the board for semi-skilled (non college) workers is $13/hr. Down South in some areas it is below $10/hr to around $8/hr in Alabama. The average wage for unskilled labor in most of the nation is barely above $8/hr. Kind of shocking when you consider the average pre-benefit wage at GM for a floor worker is reaching $42/hr.

Compared to the Midwest moving labor down South is a great alternative to those that fear the backlash of outsourcing overseas. If Michigan is to get competitve we need to quite complaining when companies like Delphi drop unskilled wages to $9/hr and skilled wages to $19/hr - more than fair when compared with the national averages. But I suspect that this will not be the case and we will ride the greed wave until the bloody end.

We are simply numb to that reality due to the local inflation bubble that high wages create.

[201test]

And that is why Grand Rapids and Michigan in particular are not competitive. The wage and inflation pressures created by high paying labor Unions have created this problem.

I'm no great fan of the UAW, MEA or UFCW -- all of which do have too much influence in Lansing. But I think it's a stretch to project/blame union influence on entry and mid-level staff wages in GR offices.

The people filling the new Mercantile Bank building are not considering taking jobs on the welding line as an alternative. Where s the pressure on an insurance company or accounting firm to compete with union wages in pursuing even admin staff? Sounds like a rationalization.

I will grant that Blue Cross is an anomaly, since as a Detroit-based slave to the unions it uses almost all high-wage union labor in its offices (and yet still gets a sweetheart deal from Logie).

[GRDadof3]

And that is why Grand Rapids and Michigan in particular are not competitive. The wage and inflation pressures created by high paying labor Unions have created this problem. Yes, this is the wage here, it is even higher in Detroit. The national average wage across the board for semi-skilled (non college) workers is $13/hr. Down South in some areas it is below $10/hr to around $8/hr in Alabama. The average wage for unskilled labor in most of the nation is barely above $8/hr. Kind of shocking when you consider the average pre-benefit wage at GM for a floor worker is reaching $42/hr.

I wasn't arguing that we don't or do have high wages here, I just disagree with your characterization of high-rises being filled with "low-paying" service jobs. While there certainly are many low paying jobs in insurance and financial companies, and they all aren't high paid suits, I think your estimated average income is low. And even higher if the company specializes in technical or creative fields. Law and accounting firms also employ well paid white-collar employees.

So do we or don't we want high-paid workers downtown? Or in GR?

[HolidayInnExpress]

Music industry withstanding I already said that these are two barriers.

Michigan is percieved to be a high cost State due to the proximity to the Union heartland (Detroit). Average wages for unskilled workers in Michigan are $23/hr, in GR they are $19/hr, in the South they are $8 (in Arkansas) to about $13 (the national average). Hence, even though GR is less expensive than the rest of the State it is still extremely expensive. These localized inflation issues create higher costs of living. One reason why high minimum wages are bad and Unions are bad. You really are not making more, you are simply driving your local inflation bubble.

Secondly, Michigan is one of the worst States to do business. Except for a short and successful run by MEDC in the 90s to attract business Granholm and Blanchard are typical Democrats. All about the Unions and labor issues. This does nothing for the perception of the State. When Engler was governor, Michigan landed on the top spot of Site Selection's yearly market expansion list multiple times. I don't think we were ever out of the top five. Point is, we need to quit coddling labor to create a new and receptive atmosphere for expansion. Grand Rapids is somewhat isolated but the stigma still burns us.

The solution. Well, since we cannot change everyones viewpoint of Detroit and labor we need to look elsewhere. I think that the move to biotech is well planned and has a much better payoff than any commercial venture.

By the way - the average wage of a services worker in an office tower is under $10/hr. They are not full of rich suits, office towers imply many direct service workers. Suited for banks, insurance companies, etc... While the companies may be rich, they are often public, and they rarely have many high paid employees.

So, Nashville landed these businesses but essentially got little in terms of real local long term investment. If wage pressures increas there you better believe that they will be looking for the next cheap spot. This is why it is better to cultivate local business and small business. Much more reliable in terms of long term investment and growth.

I also still think that most here have no clue as to the scope and diversity of the Grand Rapids economy. Nor of the daily shifts of the corporate world and exactly what companies have a presence in this town. If you did a bit of looking you would be quite surprised.

I am not sure that I am on board with the theory of localized inflation upon the Grand Rapids area. Inflation is a supply demand phenomenon...usually too much of something chasing too little of something else. Traditionally, inflation occurs when theoretical full employment is reached. This is the point where everyone who wants to work is working and employers are demanding more workers. This gives workers leverage to ask for higher pay...lest they go somewhere else. The employer is then forced to pay higher wages to keep employees and hence the employer passes that cost on to consumers to maintain profit margins...ie...inflation. Moreover, it must also be true that what is being produced locally, at high wages, is being sold locally. I don

[201test]

Some good news...for Kentwood.

http://www.mlive.com/business/grpress/inde...2950.xml&coll=6

[HolidayInnExpress]

I wasn't arguing that we don't or do have high wages here, I just disagree with your characterization of high-rises being filled with "low-paying" service jobs. While there certainly are many low paying jobs in insurance and financial companies, and they all aren't high paid suits, I think your estimated average income is low. And even higher if the company specializes in technical or creative fields. Law and accounting firms also employ well paid white-collar employees.

So do we or don't we want high-paid workers downtown? Or in GR?

I agree GRDAD....some of the highest rents per square foot is in class A office high rises. These are often spaces with the most spectacular vistas as well. It simply does not make sense to occupy this space with low wage workers...as a general rule. Low wage groups rarely get to occupy prime real-estate. That having been said, some low wage workers do work in large office towers...but mainly only to service those engaged in the primary money making functionality for the company.

[GaryP]

I caught something in this week

[twoshort]

Are there any other college's that already have programs like this and has it helped them to draw the industry? What do you guys and gals think about our chances?

We sat through a presentation and took an interest survey regarding video game classes in one of my computer science classes at GVSU. I don't know if anything became of it.

[Rizzo]

My friend is currently at Ferris for video game design. We have been in the works of creating a related business here in GR. You know, just sayin.'

[GaryP]

My friend is currently at Ferris for video game design. We have been in the works of creating a related business here in GR.

Rizzo, man, what don't you do? Can you tell us any more about it?

[GaryP]

Seattle claims to be the hub of the American gaming industry.

Maryland is promoting itself as the East coast leader.

And apparently Orlando has an EA games facility and the industry is a natural fit with Disney.

[Rizzo]

I'm going to use the term, "jack-of-all trades."

[GRDadof3]

I think any kind of creative fields should be capitalized on. Kendall basically has the corner on the market for furniture design students. Having Sony Games and EA satellite offices here would be huge!

[Rizzo]

I heard one time Mario (or one of his smaller friends) was looking at the river city.....