Carolina Hurricanes

[DanRNC]

That doesn't surprise me about Tudor. Like a said the guy's a complete clown. I heard Barnett on ACC Conference Call and he sounded like a self-impressed, pompous A-hole. If you don't know hockey, then don't write about it-plain and simple.

[Transplant]

GO CANES!!!

If their backup goalie is as bad as people are making him out to be, Edmonton should have traded for a dependable backup months ago.

[DanRNC]

Both backup goalies are not very good, thats why they picked up Roloson. You never know how they are going to play though in a situation like this. Remember, Cam Ward only came on when Gerber struggled in games 1 and 2 against Montreal.

[redjeep77]

Man the canes were lucky to get out of that one. It was a sheer mistake on the new keeper and defenseman. I actually think that the oilers had the momentum (and would have won) if there was overtime). But sorry edmonton, a w is a w. Chalk one up for the hurricanes!

P.S. any truth to the rumor that the canes might split some games in charlotte next year? I know the packers used to do that with the larger market miliwalkee. I think that would be a great idea considering most of the carolinas doesn't even know what hockey is. There was an article in the observer about how the stanley cup is being played in the carolinas, but nobody outside of the triangle knows about it. The canes need a bigger fanbase, and it would be a great idea to throw a couple games in the city! go canes!

[DanRNC]

The Hurricanes may play some exhibition games in Charlotte but no regular season games (and this will most likely never happen). The RBC Center was built in large part for the Hurricanes and they would never allow the lost revenue during the regular season.

[redjeep77]

^ I was under the impression that the arena was mostly for NC State, and the hurricanes were a last minute add on. Correct me if i am not mistaken, but that's why a significant portion of state money went into the arena? If this is true though, that it's rather unfortunate for the carolinas (NC and SC) to not feel apart of the hockey action. The sheer exposure to the sport would bring in much more $ from merchandise etc. than any one game (even at a packed house).

[DanRNC]

I believe the Hurricanes kicked in around $30 million or so. The bottom line is that hockey is not that big in the south and people in NC and SC have had 8 years to get into the sport and the Hurricanes. Why should people in the Triangle or Triad support the Bobcats or the Panthers? Neither one of these teams ever played games in these metro areas.

[dmccall]

P.S. any truth to the rumor that the canes might split some games in charlotte next year?

Absolutely no chance at all. As others said, the RBC Center is operated by Gale Force Holdings, and they don't want to lose the revenue. Second, the hockey configuration in the new Charlotte arena is a joke. Center court seats are not at center ice. As mentioned before in this forum, Charlotte is one of the most oversold sports markets in America. Why would the Hurricanes feel they could make more money playing a game(s) in Charlotte, a city which has attended Bobcats games poorly in a brand new arena? There is only but so much disposable income in CLT and they are currently tapped out, especially during basketball season. Finally, I'm not sure that the Canes are really ready to stir up memories of the terrible Greensboro experience.

I think playing some exhibition games around the region would be a great idea. We aren't excited about exh games anyway, and it would be a chance to pick up some fans in Charleston, Greenville (SC), Charlotte, Winston-Salem, and Norfolk. Likewise, I think the Panthers ought to play an exh game at NCSU, Clemson, or UNC every year. I think I heard that the Panthers have something like 25 season ticket holders in the Triangle, period. Perhaps these teams need to drop "Carolina" and go with the real cities that are floating these teams. (of course, Cary would not like the Raleigh Canes).

[Flash]

Perhaps these teams need to drop "Carolina" and go with the real cities that are floating these teams. (of course, Cary would not like the Raleigh Canes).

I agree with that. It would be nice if that happened.

[DanRNC]

I would have no problem with the team being called the Raleigh Hurricanes even though I'm in Chapel Hill. The bottom line is that Raleigh is the largest city in this area and the bulk of fans are from Raleigh/Cary.

[DanRNC]

Second, the hockey configuration in the new Charlotte arena is a joke. Center court seats are not at center ice.

I didn't realize the seating capacity for hockey is only 10,100. Geez, That's small. I guess it would be a waste to have even a exhibition game there.

[Justin6882]

^ I was under the impression that the arena was mostly for NC State, and the hurricanes were a last minute add on. Correct me if i am not mistaken, but that's why a significant portion of state money went into the arena? If this is true though, that it's rather unfortunate for the carolinas (NC and SC) to not feel apart of the hockey action. The sheer exposure to the sport would bring in much more $ from merchandise etc. than any one game (even at a packed house).

You get the Panthers to play at Carter-Finley and the Bobcats to play at the RBC and I'd consider it - but since that ain't happenin I doubt seriously the Canes would play in Charlotte. What a bad idea.

[redjeep77]

I think that's just seating for the checkers. If you notice, most of the upperdeck and some of the lower deck aren't even being occupied. I would imagine the hockey seating capacity is around 18,000

http://www.charlottebobcatsarena.com/default.asp?id=36

correction, it's 14,001. Still small, but adequate for hockey.

[redjeep77]

^ first of all Justin, it's not about "trading teams" , it's the idea of business. The hurricanes would do much better financially if they had a bigger market. When the stike was going on, it was better for the cane's owner because he wasn't losing money. That's just not good business. Hopefully the market for hockey will be self sustaining in the triangle in the future, but as of now it's not (year in and year out, not just playoff time). Hockey is just not a sport that is big in the south. Probably never will be (certainly not on the level of basketball and football or nascar). Playing a few games in a large market would do wonders for the exposure of the team in the rest of the carolinas.

2ndly - yes, you are probably right, the bobcats would benefit from playing in the rbc center much the same way (expanding market). However, the bobcats have a particular city's name on their product, not 2 states. There just isn't a facility for the panthers to play in outside of charlotte (death valley and usc's are large enough, but don't have the ammenities).

[Justin6882]

I don't really see how playing in Charlotte would bring more people than what come to see them in Raleigh. First of all there are already two professional teams in Charlotte, secondly, like you said, who really cares about them outside of the Triangle? I can see how that could possibly kindle some kind of feelings, but I just can't see that many people in Charlotte going to see the 'Canes to justify the expense and revenue lost by not playing in the RBC.

This idea kind of reminds me of when State had to play Carolina in Charlotte. Who was that good for? No one but Charlotte - students from both schools had to trek all the way down there to see their teams play. Another bad idea. Plus, we lost every damn time we played there, haha. Save of course the bowl victory this year.

[jumboman]

i say let them play some games in charlotte, seriously, just a couple of games. its not like they would be road games, charlottians would support their team and then they could become fans too... the most annoying thing i hear during this stanley cup run is how there are so few hurricanes fans and how no one cares. I know there are fans and that they way avid bout the canes, but whats wrong with expanding the market some.

and so what if you miss 1 game because its all the way in charlotte... please, give me a break

[willrusso]

......The hurricanes would do much better financially if they had a bigger market.......

LOL. You make it sound like the Charlotte metro has so many millions more people than the Triangle. A couple hundred thousand people wouldn't make that much difference. Especially when hockey isn't very big in the south to begin with.

[DanRNC]

Bottom line is the Canes are not going to play in Charlotte-this is a hypothetical exercise in futility. The Canes will make a profit this year and the bottom line is if they put a quality product on the ice they will continue to make money. Basketball is big in the south but the Bobcats and Hawks are a fans worst nightmare-what garbage. Nascar doesn't get that much play up here (thank god) so the Canes have an ample market to go after. Actually, there is a huge groundswell for hockey in the Triangle as there are more ice rinks per capita than in Denver and the Triangle has the largest growth in youth hockey in the country.

[redjeep77]

LOL. You make it sound like the Charlotte metro has so many millions more people than the Triangle. A couple hundred thousand people wouldn't make that much difference. Especially when hockey isn't very big in the south to begin with.

I think that you must have read the quote incorrectly. Yes the charlotte area is much larger than raleigh, but what i was aiming at was not MOVING the team, but rather exposing the rest of the area (the area that the team is supposedly represents) to the team. It would only help the hurricanes, and yes a "couple hundred thousand" fans would be a huge impact on the franchise. Time to think outside of the box. By the way, I can't believe the hostilty from some of the raleigh fourmers. I never intended this topic to get out of hand. What gives?

[Damien]

Part of the "hostility" could be because the possibility of the team going to Charlotte has been discussed in another thread. And also, it would seem to me that the Canes wouldn't have to play a game/s in Charlotte for them to have fans from Charlotte. Most poeple are just media fed robots nowadays anyway, and I'm sure they have at least some coverage of Hurricanes games in the Charlotte media.

[Durhamite]

Absolutely no chance at all. As others said, the RBC Center is operated by Gale Force Holdings, and they don't want to lose the revenue. Second, the hockey configuration in the new Charlotte arena is a joke. Center court seats are not at center ice. As mentioned before in this forum, Charlotte is one of the most oversold sports markets in America. Why would the Hurricanes feel they could make more money playing a game(s) in Charlotte, a city which has attended Bobcats games poorly in a brand new arena? There is only but so much disposable income in CLT and they are currently tapped out, especially during basketball season. Finally, I'm not sure that the Canes are really ready to stir up memories of the terrible Greensboro experience.

I think playing some exhibition games around the region would be a great idea. We aren't excited about exh games anyway, and it would be a chance to pick up some fans in Charleston, Greenville (SC), Charlotte, Winston-Salem, and Norfolk. Likewise, I think the Panthers ought to play an exh game at NCSU, Clemson, or UNC every year. I think I heard that the Panthers have something like 25 season ticket holders in the Triangle, period. Perhaps these teams need to drop "Carolina" and go with the real cities that are floating these teams. (of course, Cary would not like the Raleigh Canes).

Truth is, the Bobcats average attendance in 2006 was higher than the Hurricanes (who had a great regular season). Both teams have MANY FANS throughout both states. If someone has a problem with supporting Carolina whatever because it doesn't have Raleigh or Charlotte on the front, you need an ego check.

Each team would benefit by playing games throughout NC and SC. Maybe the Canes and the BobCats could play one regular season game in Charleston, Columbia or Greenville, Raleigh, Greensboro and Charlotte. Both would benefit from the exposure as there are huge numbers of NBA fans in RDU and NHL fans in Charlotte. Please don't speculate on support because YOU don't like the sport. They play significantly more games than the Panthers but it'd probably be difficult to do with current arena agreements.

[jfmecca]

Playing regular season games, even just one, in Charlotte would be a bad idea. The Canes have little to gain there, and having a regular season game outside of RBC is just lost revenue. An exhibition game there might help gain a few new casual fans and sell some merchandise, but that's about it.

It's not practical for anyone in Charlotte to buy season tickets. With so many weeknight games, very few people would be able to attend regularly. Their best bet is to run ticket promos in Charlotte for weekend games here. Get some butts in seats, and make a profit on merch and concessions.

Even then, it's not the same as the Panthers building a fan base here. Fans in Raleigh can drive to Charlotte on Sunday morning, catch a game and still be home at a reasonable time the same night. Fans coming to Raleigh face either an overnight stay or a late trip home, even on weekends. That's enough of a barrier for most fans.

Now, the Sabres have played a game in Rochester in each of the last few seasons, but there, it at least makes some sense. The two cities are in much closer proximity than Raleigh & Charlotte, and Rochester is already home to a lot of Sabres fans. They also share the oldest current pro-minor affiliation in the league.

Other than that, I'm not aware of another alternate site game that works. Edmonton played an outdoor game a few sasons ago, but it was still at home. (However, while it was a clever promo, fans and players were subject to ungodly temperatures.) In the early 90s, the league used to run a neutral site game in leiu of a home game once a year for each team. It may have built interest a bit, but certainly didn't help ticket sales.

[JDC]

I don't get why there's so much talk about Charlotte and Raleigh having to belong in the same sports markets, i.e. people driving from one metro to another for sporting events. I realize there's a lot of crossover in the regions' fan bases, but the physical distance is almost that of Boston to New York or Cleveland to Columbus.

I think the neutral site thing once a year isn't so bad. Imagine being a kid in Boise, Idaho having never seen pro hockey until the Canes and Thrashers came through town - and getting hooked to the NHL as a result, a lifelong 'Canes fan. Plus it's probably good PR for the NHL.

[dmccall]

I think that's just seating for the checkers. If you notice, most of the upperdeck and some of the lower deck aren't even being occupied. I would imagine the hockey seating capacity is around 18,000

http://www.charlottebobcatsarena.com/default.asp?id=36

correction, it's 14,001. Still small, but adequate for hockey.

The NHL plays on the same-sized ice surface that the Checkers do, so the seating arrangement would be the same. The problem for hockey in there is that like the Phoenix Suns' arena, the Bobcats arena was designed for basketball. It is shorter in length so lower level seating has to give. In Phoenix you couldn't even see the near side goal from the upstairs ends during Coyote games. That's why they had to build a Hockey arena. That's also why behind the goal seating is far better for basketball in the Bobcats' arena and the Dean Dome than it is in the RBC Center.

The best all-purpose arena is the one in Dallas. They push a button and the entire lower bowl of the arena (on bleachers) shifts to accomodate the new playing surface. It probably adds some wobble in the lower seating areas when people are moving around, though.

Let's say that the Canes' average ticket price in the arena is $40 (very close to league average). An RBC regular season sellout yields:

$40 x 18,730 = $749,200

If Charlotte can only seat 14,001, in order for ticket revenues alone to be equal, the average ticket price would have to be $53.51, or 33% higher. In addition, the Canes would want the revenues from The Eye, Parking, and Concessions that they normally get in the RBC Center. Add in the price of travel and you have a situation that would price Charlotte out of the market to generate the equivalent revenue for one game.

The Canes do need to expand their base beyond the Triangle. I think that places like Wilmington, Fayetteville, and the Triad are the next steps, not Charlotte, although I definitely support playing exhibition games all over the place.

BTW, Comparing raw attendance between the Bobcats and Hurricanes is a moot point because ticket prices are different and the two sports have a vastly different amount of media exposure. I do take back some of the intended impact of my statement. The Bobcats attendance was only a few hundred away from not being an issue. They ranked 22nd in the NBA in attendance with a team that ranked 26th on the court.

[Subway Scoundrel]

I could see the Canes playing an exhibition game but not regular season. Even though the Charlotte Metro has 200-300K more peolle, how many of those people are going to pay $80-$150 bucks a ticket to take Jr. and Sis to the game. Hockey in the south has to be cultivated and that is what has been done the past 7-9 years. Raleigh has just as many transplants so that does not equate either.

The main reason (outside of arena size for hockey) it will not happen are the sponsors. The sponsors don't pay to have their names on the ice and boards for less than 42 home games to have some of the games played on ice and boards that have other sponsors they don't get revenue from. Especially when those sponsor compete with the ones in RBC. Plus, a 14K seat arena can not support NHL hockey. If it could, Canada would have more teams, especially Winnipeg who is praying for a team with a brand new 15K arena.

The biggest being RBC. I don't think the Canes can even go out and get sponsorship or play in arena that would even have BofA or Wachovia or any other bank even associated with it. First Citizens had to cancel its box in the RBC when RBC bought the naming rights. Do you think the Bobcats will give up some of their box revenues?

Every coke, beer, parked car, ticket, sponsor that happens at the RBC, the Canes make money on.

It amazes me now that the Canes are winning, I hear Charlotte people say move the team here? Takes a lot of support and money to have a team, not to just move it hear because we think it would be fun.

Ask Karmonos and Rutherford what it takes to open up a non-traditional market and they will say they are staying put now the ice is stable.

But Charlotte should become fans and come up for games and support the team. They should watch the games on FSS and go to bars to cheer. I read the posts on the Charlotte.com site and even though some support, I hear many comments that don't even equate to Raleigh in 1997 when the team was moving here. (talk about NASCAR)

For the record, the State only put in $18M toward the arena. (Big fallacy among Charlottians on who paid for the arena). NCSU put in $50M which I think included that $18M. The rest of NCSU money was from alumni drives. The Canes put in $40M and Hotels and meal tax paid the rest.

So, it is not the State governments' arena, it is run and has interests in by Gale Force holdings.