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Alabama Retail Development Atmosphere

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I've only ridden through B'ham once but liked it .....read a lot about the "new" Brookwood Village ....any one got any photos they can post of the outside??

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I've only ridden through B'ham once but liked it .....read a lot about the "new" Brookwood Village ....any one got any photos they can post of the outside??

I took a photo of the front of Brookwood, when I last visited in fall of 2004. I'll uploaded tomorrow afternoon.

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So rumors are that Belk is buying Parisian, on top of Proffitt's/McRae's- any word on this from the Birmingham or other AL folks?

Thanks.

Good lord I hope not. :sick:

Belk's is OK and I can sorta live with them buying the other chains but Parisian's is a high end brand with a very very long history in Birmingham. It would make me sick to see a glorified Wal Mart McChain department store like Belks or Dillards buy them out.

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So rumors are that Belk is buying Parisian, on top of Proffitt's/McRae's- any word on this from the Birmingham or other AL folks?

Thanks.

Ask anyone at Parisian headquarters on Lakeshore. They've all heard it. :(

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UGH! OH GOD NO! Belk is as mediocre as they come. I was over there on the Atlanta board with them complaining about Parisian being at Phipps Plaza. Parisian is very suitable to Phipps and they were talking about if Belk did buy Parisian. Parisian is way too upscale to be degraded to Belk. Dillard's is a little bit better but not by much. I agree those 2 former CEOs of Saks/Parisian need to buy the chain and keep it in Birmingham. I believe Parisian has the potential to become something as large and great as Nordstrom and Neiman-Marcus if its allowed to be independent again.

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UGH! OH GOD NO! Belk is as mediocre as they come. I was over there on the Atlanta board with them complaining about Parisian being at Phipps Plaza. Parisian is very suitable to Phipps and they were talking about if Belk did buy Parisian. Parisian is way too upscale to be degraded to Belk. Dillard's is a little bit better but not by much. I agree those 2 former CEOs of Saks/Parisian need to buy the chain and keep it in Birmingham. I believe Parisian has the potential to become something as large and great as Nordstrom and Neiman-Marcus if its allowed to be independent again.

So in light of the recent announcement (and a good many changes in the works), I thought I'd bring this thread back to life and see what kind of updates we can round up now.

Several new projects have been announced in the last couple months including three large scale Colonial Projects in Alabaster, Gardendale/Fultondale & McCalla. All three swirl around the confirmation or rumor of a Target coming along with the center. I've heard Alabaster is confirmed to be Target although not a supercenter (just a regular store without the Grocery). The Gardendale/Fultondale area project is confirmed for Target as well as the signs are up announcing them. Again, just from looking at the size of the property, it doesn't look like it's going to be a supercenter. I imagine the best bet for another SuperTarget in the area is McCalla with the new Colonial project there. I have my doubts about that location as well as it seems Targets grocery sales still are not on par with what they hoped when they first came into the Alabama market with the supercenter concepts.

I'm still amazed with the growth that continues with Wal-Mart in the area. Chelsea & Pinson are confirmed locations for new Supercenters along with the recently opened Western Hills Mall site and the forthcoming Eastwood Mall site (with a rumored site at Grants Mill & 459 as well). I hate to speculate but if WalMart sees viable options in Chelsea, I can't help but think that Helena is definitely on their radar. With several multi-thousand home developments planned in Helena, I would not be surprised if they were not scoutting for land on the proposed Helena by-pass that's being studied.

Speaking of WalMart, at one time they were rumored to be anchoring Hayes Marketplace at 65/52 across from Home Depot in Pelham. What ever happened to this project?

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So in light of the recent announcement (and a good many changes in the works), I thought I'd bring this thread back to life and see what kind of updates we can round up now.

Several new projects have been announced in the last couple months including three large scale Colonial Projects in Alabaster, Gardendale/Fultondale & McCalla. All three swirl around the confirmation or rumor of a Target coming along with the center. I've heard Alabaster is confirmed to be Target although not a supercenter (just a regular store without the Grocery). The Gardendale/Fultondale area project is confirmed for Target as well as the signs are up announcing them. Again, just from looking at the size of the property, it doesn't look like it's going to be a supercenter. I imagine the best bet for another SuperTarget in the area is McCalla with the new Colonial project there. I have my doubts about that location as well as it seems Targets grocery sales still are not on par with what they hoped when they first came into the Alabama market with the supercenter concepts.

I'm still amazed with the growth that continues with Wal-Mart in the area. Chelsea & Pinson are confirmed locations for new Supercenters along with the recently opened Western Hills Mall site and the forthcoming Eastwood Mall site (with a rumored site at Grants Mill & 459 as well). I hate to speculate but if WalMart sees viable options in Chelsea, I can't help but think that Helena is definitely on their radar. With several multi-thousand home developments planned in Helena, I would not be surprised if they were not scoutting for land on the proposed Helena by-pass that's being studied.

Speaking of WalMart, at one time they were rumored to be anchoring Hayes Marketplace at 65/52 across from Home Depot in Pelham. What ever happened to this project?

Wonder how or if this will impact the Target distribution Center in Huntsville? That place is HUGE I believe it is over 1 million sq ft and supplies stores in Alabama, Tennessee, Georgia and maybe Mississippi. So maybe an expansion is in the future?

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How about a retail update for the new year. I first posted this thread a little over a year ago and boy have there been many changes since... BTW, anything Right Aligned is actually quoted from a previous posts but I had too many quotes and it wouldn't let me post. Sorry..

We've just started hearing about tenants at Bridge Street in Huntsville. I would suspect we'll hear more about prospective tenants for The Falls at Grants Mill (Irondale/Birmingham) once they actually move forward and break ground. Back in Huntsville, I've heard from a couple of people that Colonial & CBL built the new Parkway Place with the idea of expansion (look at the back of the mall if you doubt this; why wouldn't they have put the parking deck there if they didn't plan on expanding towards L&N Drive at some point). Has anyone heard any rumors here? I would suspect possibly Belk, JCPenny, or even Parisian/Dillards to be involved in the third anchor. It's common in some areas for both Dillards & Parisian to have multiple stores (womens store and seperate mens/childrens/home store). The area to the back of the mall lends itself perfect for two wings off the existing mall with an anchor to connect them.

What will happen to Madison Square once Bridge Street opens. My last visit to Madison Square was quite disturbing to see how far downhill the mall had gone. I knew Parkway Place would hurt with so many new to the market stores going there, but it's sad to see what used to be a great shopping destination to go so far down. I would fully expect some of the stores from Madison Square to jump ship to Bridge Street. I saw a post about possible anchors at Bridge Street and I would not be surprised to see Dillards leave Madison Square. I don't know of another national anchor that would venture into the area. I don't view Huntsville as a strong enough demo for the likes of Macy's, Nordstrom, Bloomingdales or Saks. There isn't much more choice than that. Unless Belk jumps in there. It seems Belk is on a major expansion spree right now especially with the purchase of McRae's & Profitt's. The national department store scope has just gotten smaller and smaller over the last couple of years. We're down to Belk, Macy's/Bloomingdale's, Dillards, JCPenny, Sears/KMart, Saks/Parisians, Nordstrom, BonTon Group and I believe that's about it with exception to smaller regional players (which are few and far between now).

Speaking of Parkway Place and the rumored Third Anchor, check out my recent post in the Huntsville forum in regards to this. There was an interesting aspect to Colonial's Leasing Plan available on their website that hints towards a third anchor. As for who would anchor who, that's completely up in the air I think. My first bet now is for Macy's to move to the Huntsville market. I know people say over and over that Dillard's and Macy's have an unwritten non-compete agreement but I can't see that holding up any longer considering how quickly the department store environment has consolidated over the past two years.

Moving over to Bridge Street, it appears Madison Square will stay in tact for the most part upon the opening of Bridge Street. Very few inline stores at Madison Square have committed to Bridge Street and I think some have been discouraged by the never ending construction time-frame of Bridge Street. We do know now that Bridge Street's largest anchor will be around 40,000 sq. ft. which all but guarantees that no-one is leaving Madison Square any-time soon. The only question now is "What is Belk up to?" Will they rebrand one store into a Mens/Childrens/Home or will they let it go to another competition. Again, I don't see who would move into a spot at Madison Square besides possibly Macy's. With Macy's becoming such a larger/stronger chain with the rebranding of all of thier stores to either Macy's or Bloomingdale's, I could actually see a double assault on Huntsville with Macy's picking up the third anchor spot at Parkway Place as well as the vacated Belk building at Madison Square.

I know a year ago I wouldn't have seen Macy's really considering Huntsville but with the purchase of not only Profitts/McRaes by Belk but also Parisian now, Huntsville seems to me as though Belk may be oversaturating to a point. I can see multiple Belk stores in the million plus population of Birmingham Metro but I don't know about the Huntsville metro.

What about the Pinnicle at Tutwiler Farm? Any news on tenants there besides Belk, Parisians & JCPenny. What about just up the road from there and the ever rumored Deerfoot Parkway / Bayer Properties project (Bayer developed The Summit)? That project has been very quiet for most of 2005.

Well Pinnacle opened to a grand success although I still have to wonder what's going to happen with Belk & Parisian being in the same open air center. I really can't see Belk keeping both stores here as much as I can see them keeping both at the Galleria. As for Deerfoot Parkway, Bayer's signs still exist advertising Hotel & Retail land available but there has been no signs of development beyond that. I have to wonder if Bayer is rethinking their Deerfoot project after seeing Pinnacle open and seeing the utter lack of interest from anyone over at The Falls at Grants Mill.

And on the heels of the successful opening of Colonial Promenade Alabaster, rumors have started that another huge development is going in across Highway 31 from there. I've heard Target mentioned along with Best Buy. Anyone know details here.

Well this one is rumors no more. Target, Best Buy, JC Penny and others are scheduled to open this year. Colonial has made quite an impression on Alabaster at this exit. With almost direct access to Ballantrae and other areas coming in from the new road, this area should do quite well.

And the one place that just keeps me guessing is Calera, AL - just south of Alabaster. There have been huge tracts of land cleared just of I-65 at the Highway 31 interchange. I've speculated that Home Depot is headed there as their nearest store is 15-20 minutes north of there in Pelham. Lowe's and Home Depot seem to be playing hop scotch along that stretch of interstate with Lowe's going to north Pelham, Home Depot in south Pelham, the new Lowe's at Colonial Promenade in Alabaster and logic would seem to say Home Depot would grab up Calera (especially with Calera being one of the biggest markets for new construction in the area).

Now I haven't been in this area in about 3 months but the last time I was there it was still large swaths of cleared land. Anyone know any more? Is this soon to be another huge retail development?

Over in east Alabama there is a huge project under way just off of I-20 in Oxford at the future Bypass exit. Anyone know any news there? I've been hard pressed to find anything what-so-ever about the project.

Well this turned out to be quite a large project afterall. Anchors included Home Depot & Target along with some of your other usual suspects (Best Buy, Hobby Lobby, etc.) The center turned out quite nice as I've visited a couple of times and it really is allowing Oxford to come into it's own. Slowly it's becoming more about Oxford on the I-20 corridor and not just Anniston with Oxford as the second thought. There are several new hotels coming up around the same exit as well. I'm sure this place will be quite busy come Talledega weekend in April.

Onto the newest up and coming players in the retail market...

It seems there is news every day about new developments. There are articles of a "Summit" like development in Madison which I can't see taking off too well with Bridge Street so close by. I would imagine the Madison development would be going for similar in-line tenants as the Summit and Bridge Street. There are only so many to go around though. Along with that is the new Target development in Decatur further expanding Target's footprint in Alabama.

Rumors continue to swirl of new Wal-Marts (I don't think they'll ever stop). At this point, I don't think Wal-Mart minds cannabalizing it's own stores in order to get business from someone. I can see future stores over Chapman Mountain in the Norteast and possibly out 431 to the south in the Owen's Cross Roads/New Hope area. I don't see another one going anywhere between Huntsville and Decatur as that entire area is fairly saturated already (although we are talking about Wal-Mart).

As for Birmingham, there's the newest Colonial Development off I-459 in McCalla. Another Promenade with similar tenant mix as Alabaster, Fultondale and Trussville. Target is making a full frontal assault on the Birmingham market now with their standard stores quickly going from only two supercenters to soon to be 5 stores in just over a year from now. I wouldn't be surprised to see others announced for possibly the Leeds/Moody area and 280 corridor in the near future. Leeds/Moody is about the only place that Colonial hasn't ventured and I think it's just a matter of days before we hear about Colonial Promenade Leeds (probably at the same exit as Bass Pro Shops). Speaking of Bass Pro Shops, they have FINALLY announced an opening date, November 2008. I'll believe it when I see construction.

Moving south, there seems to be a lot going on at the coast with several Colonial, AIG Baker and other developments. I can't say much as all I know is what I see online.

Well, I rambled on enough for the 2007 update I guess. Anyone know any other rumors of interest???

Edited by rtkenmore

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Meanwhile, in Mobile and Baldwin Counties...

It looks like Colonial Pinnacle at Craft Farms will be opening sometime in the Summer, instead of March. According to the lease plan, several moderate lifestyle and mall retailers featured in Eastern Shore Centre and west Mobile will have second and third locations here. Even Bed, Bath and Beyond is opening a store here!

Just up Alabama 59, Tanger Outlets recently announced a new 30,000 square foot expansion and will begin renovations of its older buildings. It would be nice if this massive outlet mall were anchored by something like Nordstrom Rack or Saks Off Fith. 

Over at Eastern Shore Centre, several smaller in-line retailers have debuted, from local merchants (Busy Babes, La De Due) to national retailers (Life Is Good, Charlotte Russe and Cache). Despite the presence of newer stores, Eastern Shore Centre is still losing the smaller local boutiques and can't seem to attract more higher-end stores and eateries. Zoe's Kitchen moved to Legacy Village in Mobile, and Red Star Tavern simply closed their doors. The number of vacant storefronts is starting to become something of an eyesore. I really wish the second department store anchor here was something other than Belk, which is probably the cause of some of ESC

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How about a retail update for the new year.

Another one to watch for Baldwin County is the Bama Bayou project in Orange Beach, which

will supposedly have 150,000 sqft of retail space :

http://www.bamabayou.com/shops.htm

For Tuscaloosa/West Alabama, the main retail project is Midtown Village, and construction is right on schedule, with

the condos opening in August. Barnes & Noble is the only officially announced retail tenant, but all of the retail

buildings are under construction & supposedly there's space for about 70 tenants.

What has not been reported is that the city also has preliminary interest from other developers

about the strong possibility of a second major shopping center somewhere in town within 5 years.

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I know a year ago I wouldn't have seen Macy's really considering Huntsville but with the purchase of not only Profitts/McRaes by Belk but also Parisian now, Huntsville seems to me as though Belk may be oversaturating to a point. I can see multiple Belk stores in the million plus population of Birmingham Metro but I don't know about the Huntsville metro.

What about the Pinnicle at Tutwiler Farm? Any news on tenants there besides Belk, Parisians & JCPenny. What about just up the road from there and the ever rumored Deerfoot Parkway / Bayer Properties project (Bayer developed The Summit)? That project has been very quiet for most of 2005.

Well Pinnacle opened to a grand success although I still have to wonder what's going to happen with Belk & Parisian being in the same open air center. I really can't see Belk keeping both stores here as much as I can see them keeping both at the Galleria. As for Deerfoot Parkway, Bayer's signs still exist advertising Hotel & Retail land available but there has been no signs of development beyond that. I have to wonder if Bayer is rethinking their Deerfoot project after seeing Pinnacle open and seeing the utter lack of interest from anyone over at The Falls at Grants Mill.

I can tell you that the opposite is true. Belk is keeping its stores at Tutwiler Farms, but the stores at Riverchase are up in the air. In addition, General Properties is not trying to allow that type of duplicate store setup at the mall because it makes it look inferior. From what I know of The Falls at Grants Mills is dead, and the Bayer Property project at Deerfoot Parkway is on hold until the Northern Beltway is built.

Also, they are rumors of 2 more Targets in Greater Birmigham. I know that 1 is suppose to open in Bessemer.

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I can tell you that the opposite is true. Belk is keeping its stores at Tutwiler Farms, but the stores at Riverchase are up in the air. In addition, General Properties is not trying to allow that type of duplicate store setup at the mall because it makes it look inferior. From what I know of The Falls at Grants Mills is dead, and the Bayer Property project at Deerfoot Parkway is on hold until the Northern Beltway is built.

Also, they are rumors of 2 more Targets in Greater Birmigham. I know that 1 is suppose to open in Bessemer.

Did you hear from a reliable source within Belk that they were keeping both Tutwiler Pinnacle stores for the long run? I know they are at least temporarily keeping both stores as is obvious from the fact that both are currently open.

General Properties would technically have no say so in that fact. I believe, and I may be mistaken, that both Parisians & Belk are owned outright by Belk. They are not leased stores. I know the actual Belk store is owned by the Belk Company as it was originally owned by Macy's and then sold to Saks which opened the Proffits location there. I also believe the Parisian store is owned outright by Belk at his point as it was originally owned by Saks. I could be wrong about the Parisians store but I know Belk owns the current Belk store outright.

I almost think every anchor spot at the Galleria is owned by the respective company as this is part of the reason the McRae's store still sits vacant to this day. The Pizitz family still owns the store and General Properties has no control over what the Pizitz family does with the building.

Are you referring to a Bessemer Target as being the one that is confirmed for Colonial Woodruff Farms (I think that's the name) off of 459 at the McCalla exit? And of course there are current Target's under development in Fultondale and Alabaster already. Is there another rumored one besides those?

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Did you hear from a reliable source within Belk that they were keeping both Tutwiler Pinnacle stores for the long run? I know they are at least temporarily keeping both stores as is obvious from the fact that both are currently open.

General Properties would technically have no say so in that fact. I believe, and I may be mistaken, that both Parisians & Belk are owned outright by Belk. They are not leased stores. I know the actual Belk store is owned by the Belk Company as it was originally owned by Macy's and then sold to Saks which opened the Proffits location there. I also believe the Parisian store is owned outright by Belk at his point as it was originally owned by Saks. I could be wrong about the Parisians store but I know Belk owns the current Belk store outright.

I almost think every anchor spot at the Galleria is owned by the respective company as this is part of the reason the McRae's store still sits vacant to this day. The Pizitz family still owns the store and General Properties has no control over what the Pizitz family does with the building.

Are you referring to a Bessemer Target as being the one that is confirmed for Colonial Woodruff Farms (I think that's the name) off of 459 at the McCalla exit? And of course there are current Target's under development in Fultondale and Alabaster already. Is there another rumored one besides those?

Yeah, that Woodruff Farms location is the Bessmer one. The other one is the 1 "possible" Target to open in Hoover, but I keep hearing back and forth that it would be a Super Target or a regular Target. I think it will most likely be a regular Target with a grocery section (minus produce, bakery, and deli) at that new development at the John Hawkins Parkway interchange of I-459. The reason why there probably won't be any more Super Targets to open in the region is because the lack of distribution centers nearby and the fact that neither of the current 3 (Tuscaloosa, Birmingham, and Trussville) are making any leadway against the region's Wal-Marts.

On Belk, ugh! I read in the Birmingham Biz Journal that they confirmed were keeping both 2 stores for the long term. Yeah, Tutwiler Farms is going stuck with both anchors being occupied by that lame duck chain. :rolleyes:

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Yeah, that Woodruff Farms location is the Bessmer one. The other one is the 1 "possible" Target to open in Hoover, but I keep hearing back and forth that it would be a Super Target or a regular Target. I think it will most likely be a regular Target with a grocery section (minus produce, bakery, and deli) at that new development at the John Hawkins Parkway interchange of I-459. The reason why there probably won't be any more Super Targets to open in the region is because the lack of distribution centers nearby and the fact that neither of the current 3 (Tuscaloosa, Birmingham, and Trussville) are making any leadway against the region's Wal-Marts.

On Belk, ugh! I read in the Birmingham Biz Journal that they confirmed were keeping both 2 stores for the long term. Yeah, Tutwiler Farms is going stuck with both anchors being occupied by that lame duck chain. :rolleyes:

I would have thought the 459/150 interchange as well a couple years ago because it was heavily rumored to be going there. With Target confirmed at Woofruff Farms not even like 6 miles away, I can't see them doing anything in Hoover at that location now. Target isn't like Wal-Mart in the fact that they will cannabilize their own same-store sales for a buck or two. I would think the next likely location for a Target at this point is east in the Leeds/Moody area and I'm not even sure of that with Trussville being so close.

I wouldn't count on seeing another Target Supercenter anytime soon considering their first four in the state (two in Huntsville and two in B-ham) performed so poorly on the grocery side. This was part of the reason that Target was so slow to start expanding further into Alabama. I think they finally realized that they regular stores would peform good and that it was the grocery side that was dragging them down here. And the issue of distribution center isn't as bad a problem as you make out. Target has a HUGE dist. center in northern Alabama. That's why you saw the construction of 4 SuperTargets pratically at the same time. They had to justify building the dist. center by increasing the store numbers at the same time.

Did the BBJ say that one of the stores at Pinnacle would be converted to a Mens/Childrens/Home or anything? Surely they aren't going to keep them both as full-line anchors? I would imagine the Parisian store would convert to a full scale Women's/Misses store with the single level Belk going to Mens/Home/Childrens.

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I wouldn't count on seeing another Target Supercenter anytime soon considering their first four in the state (two in Huntsville and two in B-ham) performed so poorly on the grocery side.
In my opinion, with Target's "SuperTarget" and "Target Greatland" concepts you're not missing much; they should just open regular stores. In my experience the Greatland locations are not that special, and the grocery side of SuperTarget had a minimal number of brands. Here's hoping you only like one kind of bread.

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In my experience the Greatland locations are not that special, and the grocery side of SuperTarget had a minimal number of brands. Here's hoping you only like one kind of bread.

I like SuperTarget's grocery section.

How does the "Greatland" store differ from other Target stores ?

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How does the "Greatland" store differ from other Target stores ?

They seem to be built on the same model as a SuperTarget, with two entrances, but with a much more limited grocery selection, with perhaps one row of upright frozen food displays along one far wall. Beyond that they supposedly have a deeper product mix overall.

My local Target is a Greatland, and I guess I take it for granted - it doesn't seem very "great" sometimes, although in comparison to other Targets I shouldn't complain. Actually they've been on a tear here lately, building a number of 2 level locations and renovating older stores, eliminating some of the garden center entrances unfortunately.

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There are five Super Target locations in the State; we keep forgettig about the west Mobile store. :)

Actually, there are 6 in the state. North Shelby (Birmingham), Trussville, Tuscaloosa, West Huntsville, South Huntsville, and West Mobile.

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I correct myself. It seems that the new Target that is to open in Bessemer at the Colonial Promenade Tutwiler is going to be Super Target. It has been confirmed by Colonial Properties and The Birmingham News.

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I correct myself. It seems that the new Target that is to open in Bessemer at the Colonial Promenade Tutwiler is going to be Super Target. It has been confirmed by Colonial Properties and The Birmingham News.

Where did that confirmation come from? Unless Colonial has completely redone their site plans, Target is shown as occupying around 127,000 sq. ft. in the new center in Bessemer (Colonial Promenade Tannehill not Tutwiler). The two SuperTargets in the Birmingham market are both around 175,000 sq. ft. I don't see a SuperTarget being almost 50,000 sq. ft. smaller than the other two stores in the same market.

The Fultondale & Alabaster Target's are around 126,000 sq. ft. as well. Unless Colonial has gone back to the drawing boards with their site plans (as posted on their websites), then the Bessemer Target is just another regular Target for the Birmingham market.

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Where did that confirmation come from? Unless Colonial has completely redone their site plans, Target is shown as occupying around 127,000 sq. ft. in the new center in Bessemer (Colonial Promenade Tannehill not Tutwiler). The two SuperTargets in the Birmingham market are both around 175,000 sq. ft. I don't see a SuperTarget being almost 50,000 sq. ft. smaller than the other two stores in the same market.

The Fultondale & Alabaster Target's are around 126,000 sq. ft. as well. Unless Colonial has gone back to the drawing boards with their site plans (as posted on their websites), then the Bessemer Target is just another regular Target for the Birmingham market.

http://www.al.com/news/birminghamnews/inde....xml&coll=2

Read the bottom of the article where it says that Colonial confirms that it is going to be a Super Target.

Yeah, it was typo, I meant Tannerhill. I didn't think that the Birmingham market was getting anymore Super Targets either until reading that article.

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