I-196 Bridge Work 2006

[GRDadof3]

As far as the strecth of I-196 East of GR being expanded, I just don't think it's necessary now or even in the near future. Future growth patterns in Kent County are going to be mainly feeding 131 and I-196 West of GR. I have some old construction photos from this past year of I-196 during the majority of the day (very quiet):

I travel this section all the time, and there's maybe 1 hour a day that it is congested. I think a lot of people would like to have it expanded so that it give's a "big-city" feel as you come into downtown, but wouldn't it be cooler to see a nice transit system running along that section and only 4 lanes of highway (repaved that is)

[Rizzo]

The only thing I can think of right now is my boy Travis. He lives on Lookout hill, in thoes apartments that line the slope, hahaha...

[evac311]

I think this project is needed for a couple reasons.

The first reason is simply to respond to the exponential growth happening downtown, which we are just beginning to witness the early stages of. The thousands of workers being brought in for all the new medical projects, plus all the residential growth is going to put thousands more cars on the main arteries into downtown. This highway is already at capacity from 131 to the east, carrying 80,000 to 85,000 cars per day. When you compare those numbers to car counts on 131 (a three lane highway since the early 80's) and consider this project is expected to take decades to complete, it makes sense to start talking about upgrading that stretch.

MDOT traffic counts

The second reason for expansion relates to the upgrades being planned. I visited MDOT's website, and it shows what they are planning. The most significant change to traffic volume will be the modification of the 196/96 interchange. Right now, 196 only pulls from the east because there is no access from 96 east to 196. When they complete that interchange, people living around knapp's corner neighborhood will be able to go downtown by getting on 96 east at leonard st and taking that to 196 west into downtown. There will also be more people using 196 once the improvments happen at the onramp at fulton st. Add to this more commuter traffic from the expanding Ford airport and the new ramps at 36th street. Improvments to the ottawa ramps and the addition of new ramps at division ave will continue to make 196 the prefered route into downtown. I also have a feeling we will hear about new on ramps at knapp street as that area continues to expand with developments, and as the new 96/196 interchange would make that a viable project.

I am excited about this project. As I have already said, I love big highways, so I am biased towards a project like this. But I think my points in favor of expansion are valid. I think that as access to downtown becomes more streamlined, people will begin to favor that route versus the traffic clogged east/west routes along michigan and fulton.

[torgo]

I think this project is needed for a couple reasons.

The first reason is simply to respond to the exponential growth happening downtown, which we are just beginning to witness the early stages of. The thousands of workers being brought in for all the new medical projects, plus all the residential growth is going to put thousands more cars on the main arteries into downtown. This highway is already at capacity from 131 to the east, carrying 80,000 to 85,000 cars per day. When you compare those numbers to car counts on 131 (a three lane highway since the early 80's) and consider this project is expected to take decades to complete, it makes sense to start talking about upgrading that stretch.

MDOT traffic counts

The second reason for expansion relates to the upgrades being planned. I visited MDOT's website, and it shows what they are planning. The most significant change to traffic volume will be the modification of the 196/96 interchange. Right now, 196 only pulls from the east because there is no access from 96 east to 196. When they complete that interchange, people living around knapp's corner neighborhood will be able to go downtown by getting on 96 east at leonard st and taking that to 196 west into downtown. There will also be more people using 196 once the improvments happen at the onramp at fulton st. Add to this more commuter traffic from the expanding Ford airport and the new ramps at 36th street. Improvments to the ottawa ramps and the addition of new ramps at division ave will continue to make 196 the prefered route into downtown. I also have a feeling we will hear about new on ramps at knapp street as that area continues to expand with developments, and as the new 96/196 interchange would make that a viable project.

I am excited about this project. As I have already said, I love big highways, so I am biased towards a project like this. But I think my points in favor of expansion are valid. I think that as access to downtown becomes more streamlined, people will begin to favor that route versus the traffic clogged east/west routes along michigan and fulton.

So you think they are "planning", huh? Now that's a novel idea.

[Rizzo]

Well if we go by MDOT's way of planning, 131 will be 8 lanes, and 96 10 lanes in the next 10 years.

[Prankster]

Speaking of improvements to 131, anyone have any info on future plans to turn it into more of a boulevard north of 196? I thought that that was in the new city plan to make the city more pedestrian friendly.

[Rizzo]

131, more pedestrian friendly?! I don't know if I wanna be a pedX with folks whizzing by at 75-90...

[GRDadof3]

I think he means making it easier for peds to get from West/East without going to the major crossroads. There are a few pedestrian tunnels I can't believe there are people who still profess to love "big highways". The only thing I find fascinating is the engineering work that goes into some of the interchanges.

[PBJ]

There are a few pedestrian tunnels

yeah, I'll walk through those.. SURE I WILL.. the one off of I think 4th street is creeeeeeepy.. no way would I walk through there

[GRDadof3]

Yah, those tunnels are freaky. Maybe we need are some nice pedestrian bridges over the highways:

[torgo]

Speaking of improvements to 131, anyone have any info on future plans to turn it into more of a boulevard north of 196? I thought that that was in the new city plan to make the city more pedestrian friendly.

The master plan speaks of turning 131 north of 196 into an at-grade urban boulevard. That would be super-cool, but I don't think its ever going to happen. Hopefully I'm wrong.

[PBJ]

The master plan speaks of turning 131 north of 196 into an at-grade urban boulevard. That would be super-cool, but I don't think its ever going to happen. Hopefully I'm wrong.

anybody have a pic of what that would look like (from another city or something). Not understanding how "Urban Boulevard" is different than "Highway with grassy median"

[torgo]

anybody have a pic of what that would look like (from another city or something). Not understanding how "Urban Boulevard" is different than "Highway with grassy median"

I would guess it would cease to be limited access, and it would probably have sidewalks and crosswalks and you wouldn't be able to go a zillion miles per hour. I just looked at the master plan, and there is no picture, but it calls it an "urban parkway" and they specify only 196 to Ann St, and the purpose would be to connect the west side to the east side and the river. I dont know if that makes anything any clearer or not.

[GaryP]

The master plan speaks of turning 131 north of 196 into an at-grade urban boulevard. That would be super-cool, but I don't think its ever going to happen. Hopefully I'm wrong.

I think we've already opened Pandora

[Prankster]

I think we've already opened Pandora

[PBJ]

Not wanting to get into a political debate, but you can thank the republicans for that. They saw the placement of the expressway as a way of dividing the largely democratic west side of Grand Rapids. I'm sure other factors may have played into it, but the splitting of the west side power base definately played into it. Again, I am not trying to bring on a political discussion, so lets keep our arrows in our quivers, OK?

So.. you bring matches and gasoline and tell us to play nice

Back to the topic..

I can't see making it a parkway type thing. I mean seriously, you can't take an INTERSTATE and bring it to 35mph with stop lights and stuff.... Can you?

Anybody with more searching skillz than I have (which are very good, but i'm more lazy) feel like finding something similar someplace? Taking a highway and making it a regular road?

[GaryP]

So.. you bring matches and gasoline and tell us to play nice

Back to the topic..

I can't see making it a parkway type thing. I mean seriously, you can't take an INTERSTATE and bring it to 35mph with stop lights and stuff.... Can you?

Anybody with more searching skillz than I have (which are very good, but i'm more lazy) feel like finding something similar someplace? Taking a highway and making it a regular road?

Off the top of my head, Boston did something somewhat similar with part of their Big Dig project. They burried part of I-90 (it may have been another freeway) that went through their Downtown and made the extra space a park. They didn't slow the highway down at all though.

[GaryP]

Not wanting to get into a political debate, but you can thank the republicans for that. They saw the placement of the expressway as a way of dividing the largely democratic west side of Grand Rapids. I'm sure other factors may have played into it, but the splitting of the west side power base definately played into it. Again, I am not trying to bring on a political discussion, so lets keep our arrows in our quivers, OK?

It's a terrible thing that politics can get in the way of the health of a city. I think I heard somewhere that the alternate plan that was being considered for 131 was not having an S curve and running it directly through downtown, which I think would be even worse. It's hard to imagine our city looking like that really.

[GRDadof3]

I can't see making it a parkway type thing. I mean seriously, you can't take an INTERSTATE and bring it to 35mph with stop lights and stuff.... Can you?

I think it was GRGridGirl who long ago brought up HARBOR DRIVE in Portland. They turned a freeway into a park, with just a small road.

Here is an article on it: http://www.terrain.org/unsprawl/7/

We really have to start turning modern conventional thoughts on their head (I do too). Some of you will think it's nuts. That's fine. We'll just keep progressing into a small city just like every other.

[GRDadof3]

Here are some more examples from that Wikipedia link:

"Many other cities in the United States have since demolished freeways as well, or considering such action. San Francisco is well-known for the (earthquake-assisted) demolition of the Embarcadero Freeway, Boston demolished the elevated portion of Interstate 93 as part of the massive Big Dig project, and Milwaukee removed the Park East Freeway. In addition, Seattle is now considering removal of the Alaskan Way Viaduct along the downtown waterfront."

That should assist your search

Milwaukee's project has spurred $250 Million in new development: http://www.newurbannews.com/FreewayRazeJul04.html

[PBJ]

I think it was GRGridGirl who long ago brought up HARBOR DRIVE in Portland. They turned a freeway into a park, with just a small road.

Here is an article on it: http://www.terrain.org/unsprawl/7/

We really have to start turning modern conventional thoughts on their head (I do too). Some of you will think it's nuts. That's fine. We'll just keep progressing into a small city just like every other.

Oh, don't get me wrong, I think it's a sweet idea. I had just never heard of such a thing

[Ted]

Here's a excerpt from the public comment I gave at the Environmental Assessment stage of this MDOT project. It is mostly from a downtown resident perspective. At some point I'm going to hang a big banner over Coit Ave overpass that reads "If you lived here, you would be home by now!":

"Concerns and comments regarding Proposed Improvement to I-196, I-96 and M-37/M-44:

1) Lane Expansion: I am opposed to any expansion involving additional lanes on I-196 between the river and I-96. For over 30 years Belknap Lookout has been detached and fragmented from the rest of the city because of I-196. The west side of Grand Rapids experienced similar issues with US131. Additionally, the City Master Plan calls for improved connections to minimize the impact of freeways as barriers for neighborhoods. The expansion of I-196 does not minimize its impact on surrounding neighborhoods. The expansion also will increased noise and air pollution for surrounding neighbors and is a quality of life issue. MDOT highlighted their Environmental Assessment that sound proofing is cost prohibitive and not part of the plan. Finally on the point of expansion. This is a 30 year plan, but funding freeway expansion wasn't even creative or future thinking 30 years ago. If you build it, it will fill up with cars. I thought that the point of M-6 was to alleviate pressure from downtown traffic, what went wrong that now we are adding more lanes.

2) Cost: The estimate we were given last night was $375,000,000 in 2005 dollars for a roughly 4 mile stretch with work being completed in 2030. I believe the original estimate for the South Beltway was somewhere around 450,000,000 for 20 miles of new freeway. Although I have not heard final figures for the cost of the South Beltway, I have heard rumors of it creeping up to 1 billion once the various land acquisitions and easements were secured. My understanding is that the cost for I-196 will be payed for by local, state and federal dollars. I don't see this as a fiscally responsible choice for the City of Grand Rapids or the State of Michigan. We need to be investing these dollars in building up the identity of Grand Rapids as a progressive and creative city, not an antiquated dinosaur that thinks the automobile is the future. If there are legitimate safety concerns on I-196 then only fund those, but not the expansion of additional lanes.

3) Pedestrians: "Traffic Safety" is an oxymoron. As an avid bike commuter, runner and walker I must advocate for more pedestrian oriented development in regards to the I-196 plan, and specifically the bridges and Division Ave boulevard.

4) Division Ave: The most innovative part of the plan is to create a north bound exit onto Division Ave. I think of any part of the plan, this makes the most sense. At this point, it appears that Division is underutilized as a way to get to and from downtown. With the additional north bound exit, I think this road could be better utilized. This is slated to be the last project done in the plan, but it should be the first. Chances are it will reduce traffic congestion at College and Leonard exits and may reduce enough pressure that expansion becomes unnecessary. Again, I would advocate that this boulevard be pedestrian friendly. It can either be another barrier separating Belknap from North Monroe or a connector making pedestrian traffic flow better by tying in with the stairs that come down the hillside. The plan should also include a strategy for recognizing and enhancing the Master Plan's TOD at the intersection of Plainfield/Leonard. The Division Ave project must be integrated and coordinated with all the other activities happening on the Medical Mile, North Monroe, Creston and Belknap. "

B-dub's got this one nailed. Steve, is that you?

This is upside down like the South Beltline and the new North Kent Wastewater Treatment Plant. This is traditional MDOT busy work, not worth our tax dollars and an ultimate net zero when it comes to traffic movement. Like all other freeway improvements in the last 30 years the widened road will be at capacity within 6 months - same conditions as today with much more money spent. With regards to Belknap, as a resident of the neighborhood, I can't think of anything worse than widening 196. Belknap is one of the last unspoiled gems in GR and right on the verge of some significant property value increases. Making that canyon wider will just make it a little louder, a little smokier, and a little more difficult.

Those are all things that MDOT does not care about.

The bad old days of the ruling car culture will not go easily and/or quietly.

[torgo]

I've been thinking about this, and I have the same problem with widening 196 as I had with that dumbass parking ramp that Grand Valley built on the Pew Campus. In my experience, 196 is only really congested a couple hours a day, at both rush hours. Thuss, is the benefit of a couple hours of supposed easier driving really worth the cost, hassle and everything else that goes along with widening that road? Not to mention the intanglibles that have been talked about here regarding Belknap and the fact that crashes will always cause traffic jams, whether there are 2 lanes or 8.

[bwindi25]

Neighbors of Belknap Lookout (NOBL) and NEW Dev't Corp were recently awarded a 25k grant from the Dyer-Ives Foundation to launch the MOBL NOBL project. This will be a design charette to gather input and plan for improved walkability and build on Belknap's tradition as a live/work community. Particular points of interest will be the I-196 overpass at Coit and College and the Lafayette underpass, the Stairways down the Hill and the intersection of Plainfield and Leonard which the City's Master Plan has shown as a Transit Oriented Development. There will be various opportunities for neighborhood stakeholders to contribute to the design. If you are interested in this project or want to be part of it, drop me a note at http://groups.myspace.com/northeastclub

[Ted]

Neighbors of Belknap Lookout (NOBL) and NEW Dev't Corp were recently awarded a 25k grant from the Dyer-Ives Foundation to launch the MOBL NOBL project. This will be a design charette to gather input and plan for improved walkability and build on Belknap's tradition as a live/work community. Particular points of interest will be the I-196 overpass at Coit and College and the Lafayette underpass, the Stairways down the Hill and the intersection of Plainfield and Leonard which the City's Master Plan has shown as a Transit Oriented Development. There will be various opportunities for neighborhood stakeholders to contribute to the design. If you are interested in this project or want to be part of it, drop me a note at http://groups.myspace.com/northeastclub

Good news. Well done. I will try to participate if schedules allow.