83 Monroe Center - City Flats Hotel

[starrfish]

Cause for celebration! UP Retail Task Force, making things happen DT!

This building looks 100% better just with the plywood painted! Imagine what it will be like when the project is finished!

*fish

Hey! Didn't we suggest that on our recent walkabout??

[joeDowntown]

Although they did get rid of the arrow that tells you how to get in the building.

The news of the sign staying is fantastic!

Joe

Cause for celebration! UP Retail Task Force, making things happen DT!

This building looks 100% better just with the plywood painted! Imagine what it will be like when the project is finished!

*fish

[quoteme3]

Although they did get rid of the arrow that tells you how to get in the building.

The news of the sign staying is fantastic!

Joe

I'm going to email my dad to email Tom Fox. I'm sure his sign remaining a fixture on MC will tickle him pink.

[CK1]

$139,000 starting price...FINALLY a pricepoint downtown that the "masses" can afford! I only wish this had come about 6 months ago, before I purchased a home...

I will be shocked if these things don't sell out, or at least get to the percentage-sold necessary for the developers to move forward. The free upgrade to stainless and granite should be a huge incentive!

Also, if these condos do sell like hotcakes, and considering how difficult it seems to be for Icon and Bridgewater to sell some of their units (much higher price points), hopefully this will finally be an eye-opener for other developers to work a little harder at the numbers to bring more affordable living units downtown.

[GRDadof3]

$139,000 starting price...FINALLY a pricepoint downtown that the "masses" can afford! I only wish this had come about 6 months ago, before I purchased a home...

I will be shocked if these things don't sell out, or at least get to the percentage-sold necessary for the developers to move forward. The free upgrade to stainless and granite should be a huge incentive!

Also, if these condos do sell like hotcakes, and considering how difficult it seems to be for Icon and Bridgewater to sell some of their units (much higher price points), hopefully this will finally be an eye-opener for other developers to work a little harder at the numbers to bring more affordable living units downtown.

And that's for a one-bedroom + den/office, not for a small studio. Right now, the more expensive units are planned to face Monroe Center, and the less expensive ones face the back alleyway (much like Union Square's courtyard units). I can imagine it will also be pretty cool to see the blue lanterns at GRAM from the rooftop deck at night.

It turns out that they are all lurkers here.

Haha, I forgot about the entrance arrow joe.

[Veloise]

Floor plan, four on a floor:

[gvsusean]

if all units were 180,000 and there are 10 of them that means they can only make 1.8mil... how much did it cost to buy the building + construction costs?

[andrew.w]

Maybe a small atruim starting on floor two? I know, that would mean more construction costs, but it would probably solve the problem.

Well, looks like the apparently pre-existing(?) lightwells solved the light in the center of the building problem. And as for how to keep privacy between units, I guess keep the blinds closed or frost the windows since there isn't a view anyway (the side of the nexdoor buidings.)

if all units were 180,000 and there are 10 of them that means they can only make 1.8mil... how much did it cost to buy the building + construction costs?

There are 16 units (take another look at the sign in the window ) which at that price would be 2.88mil.

[Parhelion]

I was downtown tonight at Festival (luckily, we arrived minutes after the storm ended), and checked out the floorplan in person. However, no square footage (that I saw) was listed. Does anyone have an idea of the square footage per unit?

[GRDadof3]

Well, looks like the apparently pre-existing(?) lightwells solved the light in the center of the building problem. And as for how to keep privacy between units, I guess keep the blinds closed or frost the windows since there isn't a view anyway (the side of the nexdoor buidings.)

There are 16 units (take another look at the sign in the window ) which at that price would be 2.88mil.

I'm fairly certain those "open courtyard" areas that run up the middle sides are not there now, so they must be looking at cutting those in. I just looked on Regis and this building does not face the alleyway in the back, and the Michigan National building runs behind it. So in order to do backside units with any light, in go the courtyards. I don't think it's that bad of an idea.

edit: scratch that, it looks like there are the courtyards already on the West side of the building.

I'd guess they're around 800 sf (?). These plans are preliminary, and apparently they had thought of doing 3 "shotgun" style condos running from front to back on each floor , but that only yielded 3 per floor, which would have pushed the price up (and made long narrow condos).

[oakesLife]

Good guess GRDad, I emailed Amy to get more info. She said each condo is approx. 750 sq ft. She also sent me a pdf of the floor plans - 2 different floors. The first floor of condos will not have the courtyards but there will be a skylight above the offices in the back units. Other than those skylights there won't be any natural light in the rest of the condo from what I can see.

I can't remember where I saw it but I thought I read that those prices are pre-construction prices which ups their profit considerably. I could be wrong though - can't remember where I read it. They're also possibly going to sell the second floor as commercial space so there may only by 12 condos.

[intovb]

I looked at the project extensively...loved the building, but the logistics were going to be a monster hassle. No area for construction staging - the back abuts the parking ramp and is surrounded by either side by buildings. The portion of Monroe Center will be shut down for quite a long time- probably until next summer if they started today. I figured every week of delay in construction would be another $5,000 to $10,000 of cost. It had some historical credits as well, but we found that it would cost much more to comply with the standards then to cash in on the $148k. I was originally told by an unnamed REALTOR it was in the Renaissance Zone, but found out after 2 minutes of due dilligence it wasn't. Any tax breaks help - it is expensive to live in the core. Parking was good - great access. City did a poor (opinion) job in designing the walkway to the ramp from Monroe Center. I had budgeted a few G's to renovate that...

I also did not like the back units - no direct sunlight. I have enough trouble selling units with a view let alone ones without. The profit in this project (or break even point) is in the last units. A lot of risk for low pay. The front units will be sweet though and they will sell quickly. The retail units on the main floor are tricky as well. They need to find the right tenant - they have been trying for years to find one. i hope they can corral some good tenants.

I did think of a way to increase their profits SIGNIFCANTLY though by doing one simple thing...I wonder if they will figure it out. Hmmmm. The numbers were still tight at that. I wanted to do the project, but it would have been a labor of love. I already have a wife, I need to get paid! Ha!

[GRDadof3]

I looked at the project extensively...loved the building, but the logistics were going to be a monster hassle. No area for construction staging - the back abuts the parking ramp and is surrounded by either side by buildings. The portion of Monroe Center will be shut down for quite a long time- probably until next summer if they started today. I figured every week of delay in construction would be another $5,000 to $10,000 of cost. It had some historical credits as well, but we found that it would cost much more to comply with the standards then to cash in on the $148k. I was originally told by an unnamed REALTOR it was in the Renaissance Zone, but found out after 2 minutes of due dilligence it wasn't. Any tax breaks help - it is expensive to live in the core. Parking was good - great access. City did a poor (opinion) job in designing the walkway to the ramp from Monroe Center. I had budgeted a few G's to renovate that...

I also did not like the back units - no direct sunlight. I have enough trouble selling units with a view let alone ones without. The profit in this project (or break even point) is in the last units. A lot of risk for low pay. The front units will be sweet though and they will sell quickly. The retail units on the main floor are tricky as well. They need to find the right tenant - they have been trying for years to find one. i hope they can corral some good tenants.

I did think of a way to increase their profits SIGNIFCANTLY though by doing one simple thing...I wonder if they will figure it out. Hmmmm. The numbers were still tight at that. I wanted to do the project, but it would have been a labor of love. I already have a wife, I need to get paid! Ha!

Boy, talk about low hanging fruit! Don't be surprised if you get an email now intovb (I'd contact you if I were developing this project).

[GRDadof3]

Urban spellunking anyone? Here's the Fox Building's roof. You can make out the skylight courtyard that runs down the West side of the building:

(click to zoom in)

Looking at the back of the building (the one with the two stories of windows), where I believe a courtyard sort of runs down the back side for a few floors (that will be used partially for the elevator and stairwell):

And floorplans for the 3rd and 4th floors:

The back units on the 5th floor are slightly different with added windows on the back, and the living rooms realigned to capture the sunlight:

According to sources close to the investigation....

I'm hoping to get a tour and some more info this weekend. I'll keep you all posted.

[Allison Slater]

I must say the back units on the 3rd and 4th floors are rather appealing. No, there's no real view at-all.. just a few windows facing a small courtyard thing. I imagine it would give a nice, cozy private feel.. and when one wants to enjoy escaping the secluded coziness, take the steps down and walk out the door =]

If I were looking for a condo unit and these were in my price range, I would definately be giving them a look.

Will there be rooftop access for residents? That could be a big bonus, especially if the back units don't appeal to most of the market because of the lack of open-ness outside the windows.

[GRguy]

On the fifth floor rear, why did they put the bathroom on the windows? There is so little light and it goes in a bathroom?

[oakesLife]

These layouts seem so awkward - walking thru the kitchen to get into the apartment? I wouldn't want anyone just stopping by and seeing last nights dirty dishes in the sink...

Also, with the prices being so low (for monroe center) as small one-bedrooms, why not make them bigger and up the price? Are there that many single people looking to BUY rather than rent? It seems (and only because it's my situation) that adding another office/second bedroom and making the kitchen and bathrooms larger would attract more people. IMHO.

ps. off-topic but OMG! Has anyone seen this listing? If only I had $1M...

60 Monroe Center

[twoshort]

ps. off-topic but OMG! Has anyone seen this listing? If only I had $1M...

60 Monroe Center

Its been on the market for a loooong time. It was on the parade of downtown living one year and man is it sweet

[Nitro]

Its been on the market for a loooong time. It was on the parade of downtown living one year and man is it sweet

Looks like Jon dropped the price too. I remember that place being listed for 1.2 or 1.3. It is a pretty sweet place, I went trough it when it was on the parade.

[GRDadof3]

These layouts seem so awkward - walking thru the kitchen to get into the apartment? I wouldn't want anyone just stopping by and seeing last nights dirty dishes in the sink...

Also, with the prices being so low (for monroe center) as small one-bedrooms, why not make them bigger and up the price? Are there that many single people looking to BUY rather than rent? It seems (and only because it's my situation) that adding another office/second bedroom and making the kitchen and bathrooms larger would attract more people. IMHO.

ps. off-topic but OMG! Has anyone seen this listing? If only I had $1M...

60 Monroe Center

Well the biggest complaint around UP is that condos downtown are too expensive. They're probably trying to stay in a price range that is not being concentrated on hard enough.

I've lived in several apartments where you walked through the kitchen from the front door. In fact, one in college was very similar to the one on the bottom of the 5th floor plan. One idea I thought about was on the back units, since there are few windows, blow a hole in the floor and make those two-story units similar to Monroe Terrace condos.

[oakesLife]

One idea I thought about was on the back units, since there are few windows, blow a hole in the floor and make those two-story units similar to Monroe Terrace condos.

I agree, making them loft style would be way more attractive to couples. Singleites may enjoy the current small affordable layout but 800 sqft is a little tight for 2.

[dragt]

These layouts seem so awkward - walking thru the kitchen to get into the apartment? I wouldn't want anyone just stopping by and seeing last nights dirty dishes in the sink...

Also, with the prices being so low (for monroe center) as small one-bedrooms, why not make them bigger and up the price? Are there that many single people looking to BUY rather than rent? It seems (and only because it's my situation) that adding another office/second bedroom and making the kitchen and bathrooms larger would attract more people. IMHO.

ps. off-topic but OMG! Has anyone seen this listing? If only I had $1M...

60 Monroe Center

I think there a lot of single people or young couples with no kids that will jump all over this affordable way to get into the core. I have two single friends that have set up walk-throughs already! They've been renting out in grandville/wyoming and have been wanting to buy a condo DT but till now only the efficiencies where in their range. Hillmount was a little outside the location they wanted...

[Veloise]

These layouts seem so awkward - walking thru the kitchen to get into the apartment? I wouldn't want anyone just stopping by and seeing last nights dirty dishes in the sink.....

But it's real handy when bringing in your groceries.

[toured a Union Square unit which enters on the BR and you have to climb the stairs to reach the kitchen]

[dragt]

I agree, making them loft style would be way more attractive to couples. Singleites may enjoy the current small affordable layout but 800 sqft is a little tight for 2.

We are a spoiled lot here in GR if 800 is unacceptable for 2! In most urban areas 800 square feet for 2 would be considered a luxury (and would cost at least twice as much). This is what it takes to make things affordable to a younger crowd, and I for one am very happy to see it. there are a ton homes in Alger Heights that are only around 800sq ft (with a lot less effecient layouts). Let's not design every project for the married couple moving out of quarter-million-suburban-land!

[dragt]

Besides, if you add a little space and up the price and you're suddenly competing with every other struggling condo project in the core! As is, these are one of a kind. Which is probably why half of them are already spoken for...

I think we're too used to thinking about our dwelling space in terms of the self-contained suburban bubble, maybe?