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P_McLane

Sunland

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Are you talking about Westminister Oaks or Cherry Laurel? Both are very nice. Westminister Oaks, if you've never been there, will WOW you when you first go. To me it was an unexpected surprise in the middle of our peaceful east side. Westminister Oaks is on the Same street as W.T. Moore Elementary, and I think that's Dempsy Mayo... but I'm not sure. If I get a chance I'll get out to Westminister and take some pictures. We've got former governors living in there.

Back to Sunland... I can't pass up the opportunity to comment on how good a piece of commercial property this is. I'm not sure the answer to our problems is condos/condos/ and more condos. What this growing body of people need is a place to spend some money wether eating, shopping or being entertained. We need more entertainment and more Urban shopping.

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Westminister Oaks is on the Same street as W.T. Moore Elementary, and I think that's Dempsy Mayo... but I'm not sure.

I don't know about W. T. Moore Elementary, but you're right about Westminister Oaks being on Dempsy Mayo.

I definitely see your point about a highrise at the current Sunland site being out of place in relation to downtown, but might it fit in with the hospital considering their close proximity to one another?

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Sure, I think a midrise building would fit in there... it would actually be sandwitched between two midrise hospitals... but again I question the use. If its going to be residential, do we want it to be a midrise building, or do we want a more traditional, detached style layout?

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^ Good question. I think either would be great. There's a great classic single-family home neighborhood right across from the hospital. I can see either being a nice addition to that side of town.

I'm somewhat torn because the concept of tall buildings are very cool to me, but I don't really have a desire to live in one as a primary residence. I personally like the idea of having a yard for our dogs and potentially for entertaining.

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I think many people would agree with you. Yes there is a very cool thing about "tall homes" but they need not take over. There still needs to be a place for a man to have his yard ya know!

I tend to think all highdensity housing, belongs downtown. We need that type of growth in our downtown area not on Blairstone Road. We need more traditional, affordable housing throughout the rest of the city, and this plot of land might not be the place to put affordable homes (as the property costs $5 Million) but it could make for a nice neighborhood of luxury homes OR a good entertainment complex. I'm not going to give up on that idea because I think it would give the investor the best return on his/her money.

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Question: When this proposal says condos, do they mean only residential condos or do they mean a mix of residential and office condos? Just curious b/c sometimes I've seen proposal come in saying condos, but what they build is actually office condos. An example of that is the new medical offices coming in at what was once a vacant lot at the NE corner of Riggins and Mahan. That development came is a medical condos/campus if I recall correctly. So my question in more detail is: when a proposal just says "condos" does that only mean residential? And if they are to do office, does the word office always appear in the proposal? I know zoning dictates a lot of this, but I'm just curious about the wording. Thanks

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Question: When this proposal says condos, do they mean only residential condos or do they mean a mix of residential and office condos? Just curious b/c sometimes I've seen proposal come in saying condos, but what they build is actually office condos. An example of that is the new medical offices coming in at what was once a vacant lot at the NE corner of Riggins and Mahan. That development came is a medical condos/campus if I recall correctly. So my question in more detail is: when a proposal just says "condos" does that only mean residential? And if they are to do office, does the word office always appear in the proposal? I know zoning dictates a lot of this, but I'm just curious about the wording. Thanks

Submissions have often be submitted with the word condo attached and become commercial space. This was often the case with alot of the Medical, real estate, and law offices on Capital Circle North East as well as several properties in mid-town strip malls and commercial centers throughout the city.

I do believe, however, that these Sunland condos being proposed are going to be residential.

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hopefully we can erase the haunted image from this site... I can't wait to see what is actually proposed. Hopefully some segment will be recreation.

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Seeing as how the developer says he doesn't know what he will do with the property... now might be a good time to shoot some ideas his way...

Did someone say recreation/entertainment center? Gameroom, Bumper Cars, Mini-Golf, Bumper Boats for the kids, Bingo for grandma.

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Why does this developer say he doesn't know what he'll do with the property? I thought he had already submitted preliminary plans with Growth Management...... :huh:

Pre-Submittal

Sunland Property (11-28-20-901-0000) (TPA060001) located on 25.39 acres on

the south side of Miccusukee Road and north of Mahan Drive, with Blair Stone Road

and Phillips Road dissecting the property. The proposed project is the conversion of an

existing 343,000 sq. ft. building to 200,000 sq. ft. of office/hotel space. The property is

zoned OR-3 (Office Residential).

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Why does this developer say he doesn't know what he'll do with the property?

I don't know, but Cavanaugh repeats himself in today's Democrat: Tallahassee.com - Sunland

"Cavanaugh, 44 and a graduate of Florida State University, said it hasn't been determined how the property will be developed, although it's zoned for a combination of commercial and residential uses. Development won't begin until 2007, he said, but he expects to demolish the former hospital before the end of this year."

* * *

Its position on a hill would make it a nice location for a multi-story office building with the requisite corner-office views of NE Tallahassee. I can't get behind the idea of an arcade or recreation center because I don't think the revenue stream would meet the cost of the land + abatement + development. This site is primed for density, and that means corporate or residential.

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I think the only residential this property could handle would be very expensive. I have no problem with luxury homes seeing how close it will be to the Hospitals. I don't see the community being all that big, however.

I'm really not sure about the office building... at a time when office space should be going up downtown, and there are numbers of business parks throughout the city. I'm not sure an entertainment venue wouldn't help the developer to return a profit on his investment. When you consider the amount of money can be generated by an all-in-one place that would bring families, and area tourist a little fun.

One of the issues I find with our community is we continue to do alot of the same with all of our developments. Homes, retail, office space. Sooner or later, someone will have to break out of the box and build a recreation center, or entertainment complex, probably much larger than this property can accomodate if we are to truly take off. I'm not saying this developer has to be the one, but to many, our steady growth is not exciting, and I think its time to change all that.

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I'm not sure if the old Sunland property is the right place for it but we need something along the lines of a Dave & Buster's Entertainment Complex in this town. Maybe the new Fallschase development could incorporate something like this into their overall plans.

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Well...attempting to follow up on this idea, I called D&B Headquarters to inquire about the possibility of getting one in Tallahassee. The girl took my information & said she would have someone from investor relations or business development to call me back. They don't offer franchise opportunities in the domestic US (only international) so if we got one it would have to be company owned & operated. She wasn't sure if Tallahassee's size & population would warrant them looking at us as a possible location & again said she would have someone call me.

Dave & Buster's World Headquarters

2481 Manana Drive

Dallas, TX 75220

(214) 357-9588 from 8am to 5pm CST.

http://www.daveandbusters.com

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I quite agree that developers should be concentrating on downtown locations for high-end office and residential projects. The concept of a recreational complex is very exciting, assuming it is done in such a way as to deliver long-term equity for the site. It would be a shame if the run-down hospital were replaced in ten years with a run-down mini-golf course.

This "Dave and Buster's" looks very interesting. - Dave and Buster's - The most recent store openings have been in small- to mid-sized markets like Tallahassee:

11/2001 Westlake, Ohio

09/2002 Islandia, NY

02/2005 Omaha, NE

10/2005 Buffalo, NY

Tell us more about the place Glenn.

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Imagine this as the future of Sunland...

bowling-center-from-above-2.jpg

I don't like the website, but I like the concept:

Introducing Funway!

In 1967, expansion called and because the current property could no longer accommodate the needs of the growing complex, Buri purchased 5.4 acres of land and began building what today has become the Fox Valleys largest and most popular amusement center.

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Imagine this as the future of Sunland...

This would be great for local families, and I would certainly go, but I don't see the advantage to the present developer to approach this particular property with warehouse-style recreation in mind. As we've mentioned on other threads, Apalachee Parkway seems primed for something like this. With Albertsons and the K-Mart / Publix shopping center up for grabs, it wouldn't make sense to demolish and abate a ruined hospital to build a bowling alley.

The appeal of Dave & Buster's seems to be in the higher-end food and drink, and the ostensibly "adult" attractions of billiards and the bar. But I wouldn't assume that a Dave & Buster's could stand alone on Philips Road; it would need to be couched in with diverse commercial spaces.

25 acres isn't a lot with parking, but my money is still on a high-density residential / commercial / office program. A health-care / retiree center would certainly fit nicely - positioned as it is between two hospitals. Might the old hospital become a new assisted living facility?

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25 acres isn't a lot with parking, but my money is still on a high-density residential / commercial / office program. A health-care / retiree center would certainly fit nicely - positioned as it is between two hospitals. Might the old hospital become a new assisted living facility?

The link to funland will show, it is much more than a bowling alley. There's dining, outdoor recreation such as miniature golf, bumper boats, water slides, batting cages, go-karts, there's a whole arcade side, a skating rink, in addition to the bowling, and for us possibly a nice BINGO hall. I know it would bring out the old ladies... my grandmother loves BINGO.

But... like you mentioned... the Old Albertson's might make a better spot for something like this.

Meanwhile I do, very much, like your idea of putting a Senior Citizens assisted living facility on this site. Proxmity to the nearby hospitals and clinics is benificial. I can also see the appeal that the Blair Stone area trails might have to them. There's the possibility to go with a little density here especially if we're talking about a facility designed for the seniors. I still think we should throw in the BINGO. Lord knows I need a place for my grandmother when she visits, she could play BINGO ALL DAY! Very good idea. The location is prime for a scaled down, more settled population, the trails will help to provide recreation, and the distance from the hospitals will help to keep them, and maybe me someday (Lord willing) healthy.

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...There's dining, outdoor recreation such as miniature golf, bumper boats, water slides, batting cages, go-karts, there's a whole arcade side, a skating rink...

This sounds just like the Fun Center on Sharer Road - minus the bowling and bingo. I haven't a clue about the popularity / general satisfaction with the Fun Center, but I would be surprised if Tallahassee could support a second one with the same business model. The revenue stream just doesn't seem equal to the costs incurred on the Sunland site.

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