South Carolina's Economic Engine

[goodbye]

Here is the latest news on the "mystery project," called "Project Pogo," some of you have been skeptical about. It is a new headquarters for The South Financial Group. They hope to locate along I-85 in Greenville and invest hundreds of millions of dollars in the site.

Read more here!

[LuvSC]

Welcome to the forum! We appreciate any and all input about this significant topic.

You bring up some great points, but I also think that you may be understating the case for Charleston and Columbia somewhat. Charleston has also managed to attract manufacturing jobs (Alenia-Vought, Chrysler Sprinter van plant) in significant numbers. You pretty much nailed it on the head as far as Columbia is concerned (although I would add the Palmetto Health system to that list), but I believe that USC's research campus will definitely alter the local economy of Columbia in a most positive way. It will take a few years, but the momentum is certainly there. In recent years, the Upstate's economy hasn't done as well as many have thought, but that's certainly getting ready to change with ICAR and hopefully "Project Pogo" for Greenville.

In 20 years, I still think it will be a pretty tight race between the Big Three as far as population is concerned, so I guess we'll just have to wait and see how things turn out.

I may indeed be underselling Charleston. No question that Charleston is on a roll. Seems to me it's economy is very healthy. Alenia-Vought and now DaimlerChrysler add serious manufacturing to the existing tourism, retirement living and port-based economy. I think Charleston's economy will continue to benefit from the city's excellent quality of life. I haven't looked at the metrics, but it wouldn't surprise me if they show Charleston surpassing Greenville in recent years as Greenville has struggled with manufacturing job losses.

But my point is the culture of the big three metros, which has not changed. Seems to me Greenville and the Upstate is more suited culturally to be or become the state's economic engine. As I said, it's more entrepreneurial and can do.

Charleston, I believe, isn't as open to newcomers. Its blue-blood Old Guard often opposes change. An insular approach isn't good for the economy oftentimes.

In Columbia, the government town mentality saps initiative. We'll see if USC is really able to leverage its research into new private-sector jobs. Palmetto Health is locally traded health care services. As far as I know it doesn't bring in wealth from outside the community. It just circulates dollars inside.

I'm saying Greenville and the Upstate are, and will continue to be, the state's economic engine -- in large part because of this cultural difference. However, if anyone is going to challenge that status, it will be Charleston, not Columbia, in my view.

[sonofaque86]

Yeah, never Columbia...Columbia always gets looked at negative on this board.

[goodbye]

Yeah, never Columbia...Columbia always gets looked at negative on this board.

I don't think it has anything to do with this board, sonofaque86. People aren't being convinced by what members from other cities post very often.

[g-man430]

I think Greenville will be the biggest out of the three in 20 years too, but who really cares, as long as all three cities keep growing to the fullest they can be. Greenville, Columbia, and Charleston all have something unique and special about them and that's all that matters.

[The_sandlapper]

The good thing about data is that it is honest and objective, and unlike so many strong subjective opinions of different cities on these boards ie (Columbia) data usually squashes the popular assumption and brings actual facts into light which if anyone has taken debate or public speaking class is the only respectable way to argue a point.

Now if many opinions had actual data to back it up I would concede, but I have yet to see any credible data that suggest otherwise. Whenever I argue a point I usually post facts to back it up. If I didn't do that I could just make outrageous claims like "Columbia is the center of the universe, I invented the question mark, and most farts don't stink"!

[goodbye]

And that is your opinion, which is completely as acceptable as everyone else.

The current data shows all three cities very closely lined up. It is okay to speculate the future based on observation though, as long as we keep it under control.

[gs3]

The good thing about data is that it is honest and objective, and unlike so many strong subjective opinions of different cities on these boards ie (Columbia) data usually squashes the popular assumption and brings actual facts into light which if anyone has taken debate or public speaking class is the only respectable way to argue a point.

Now if many opinions had actual data to back it up I would concede, but I have yet to see any credible data that suggest otherwise. Whenever I argue a point I usually post facts to back it up. If I didn't do that I could just make outrageous claims like "Columbia is the center of the universe, I invented the question mark, and most farts don't stink"!

An "engine" does what? It generates something. Right? Ok, here is some hard evidence that Upstate is the economic engine. It generates the greatest GMP (Gross Metropolitan Product), which is the total dollar output of goods and services. It's number 1 in South Carolina. Click on "Table 3" in the link below.

http://www.usmayors.org/metroeconomies/100...tables_1004.xls

GSA - Number 114 in the US at 32.3 billion

Columbia Metro - Number 135 in the US at 22.1 billion

Charleston/N.Charleston Metro - Number 161 in the US at 17.0 billion

I have to agree with LuvSC, from a logical standpoint. Thats why as a businessman, I chose Greenville for my company over other SC cities.

The above is simply facts, and I'm not knocking any other SC cities. I love them all and SC as a whole is a damn great state!

[The_sandlapper]

That's fine like I said evidence to back up your argument not personal opinions or popular assumptions errorneously stated as fact.

In that same source its shows that Myrtle Beach had the fastest economic growth rate from 1993-2003 (infact it was 10th fastest in the country), followed by Columbia(112), Charleston(182), and then GSA(198) on table 5. Yes engines generate jobs, economy etc. well as of 1993-2003 Myrtle Beach (Horry Co.) has led the state in economic growth. So if we use that as an indicator it can be argued that the Grandstrand area will actually lead the state for the next ___ many years as an economic engine followed by Columbia, Charleston, and then GSA.

I still don't get why its so hard to believe that other SC cities or areas are not economically stagnant?

[Spartan]

An "engine" does what? It generates something. Right? Ok, here is some hard evidence that Upstate is the economic engine. It generates the greatest GMP (Gross Metropolitan Product), which is the total dollar output of goods and services. It's number 1 in South Carolina. Click on "Table 3" in the link below.

http://www.usmayors.org/metroeconomies/100...tables_1004.xls

GSA - Number 114 in the US at 32.3 billion

Columbia Metro - Number 135 in the US at 22.1 billion

Charleston/N.Charleston Metro - Number 161 in the US at 17.0 billion

I have to agree with LuvSC, from a logical standpoint. Thats why as a businessman, I chose Greenville for my company over other SC cities.

The above is simply facts, and I'm not knocking any other SC cities. I love them all and SC as a whole is a damn great state!

Thats interesting stuff. I am suprised that Myrtle Beach is #205 at $7 billion. For some reason I thought it was higher. Those are good facts too.

[krazeeboi]

In Columbia, the government town mentality saps initiative. We'll see if USC is really able to leverage its research into new private-sector jobs.

I don't think I'd say that the government presence in Columbia "saps initiative." However, there's no question that for too long, Columbia has been heavily dependent on state government, USC, and Ft. Jackson. The city played it safe, but those are also slow-growing and relatively low-paying sectors as well. I think that things are looking up for USC. The most recent evidence in this regard is its designation as an institution of "very high research activity" by the Carnegie Foundation for the Advancement of Teaching, the only university in SC to attain such a status. Its peers in this category include Duke, Emory, Vanderbilt, USC, UC Berkeley, and Princeton, to name a few.

[monsoon]

An "engine" does what? It generates something. Right? Ok, here is some hard evidence that Upstate is the economic engine. It generates the greatest GMP (Gross Metropolitan Product), which is the total dollar output of goods and services. It's number 1 in South Carolina. Click on "Table 3" in the link below.

http://www.usmayors.org/metroeconomies/100...tables_1004.xls

GSA - Number 114 in the US at 32.3 billion

Columbia Metro - Number 135 in the US at 22.1 billion

Charleston/N.Charleston Metro - Number 161 in the US at 17.0 billion

I have to agree with LuvSC, from a logical standpoint. Thats why as a businessman, I chose Greenville for my company over other SC cities.

The above is simply facts, and I'm not knocking any other SC cities. I love them all and SC as a whole is a damn great state!

Well actually it is not the number # metro in SC. The honor for that is

Charlotte-Gastonia-Rockhill, SC - 72.2 billion

Which is larger than the other 3 combined.

Now I realize that most of the Charlotte/Gastonia/Rock Hill metro is in NC, but since the title of this thread is South Carolina's economic engine, i.e. what economy drives the state, I would say that Charlotte has a much bigger influence on SC than Greenville. That is given the definition that is being implied above and the fact that it is more central to SC's major population centers over GSP which is located in the western part of the state. A lot of the Charlotte metro's success is directly related to the business that it does related to SC and I would say that an more thorough analysis would indicate this significant business influences more of SC than one would think.

It's food for thought as this part of SC is often forgotten in these discussions.

[goodbye]

monsoon, I agree that Charlotte is indeed a major factor in this state, however, most of the money generated by that metro does not benefit this state at all. There are several factors involved in how any business impacts a state's economy - including, but not limited to - local investment, employee investment, and taxes.

krazeeboi, while I am proud of USC's newly bestowed status, I recall that there are 60 other schools in the nation with the same rating. I also believe Clemson could soon receive the same rating once its auto research engineering facilities are complete. Imagine our state's universities being recognized together in this category.

[krazeeboi]

Skyliner, I agree with you concerning Charlotte's influence on SC. While York and Lancaster counties have and continue to receive economic overflow from Charlotte, the vast majority of the economic activity in the region is centered in Mecklenburg, and runner up would be Cabarrus. Even then, a signficant number of employees of some of the companies that have relocated from Mecklenburg to York and Lancaster are residents of Mecklenburg (or Union). I would like to see the figures for the SC portion of the Charlotte MSA; I don't think they come close to Greenville's, Columbia's, or Charleston's figures.

I mentioned USC's rating as evidence that I believe that USC will be able to make Innovista into a success for the Columbia metro and the state of SC. I have no doubts that Clemson will also receive the highest ranking afforded by the foundation. I also think that eventually, many of our smaller schools will be ranked. But I was surprised to not see MUSC listed, unless I missed it.

[goodbye]

Since I know there are several supporters of the Governor on this forum, I thought this press release from the Governor's office in 2003 would be a nice addition to the discussion. ICAR is about to make such noise as we've not heard in this state in a long while.

[krazeeboi]

Speaking of the governor, you sure you want Greenville to land Project Pogo? It'll be another notch in the governor's belt and just might increase his chances of getting re-elected.

[goodbye]

This man also has much to say about the state's economy and where it is going and needs to go.

Worthwhile reading

[krazeeboi]

OK, I stopped reading after the first line. I'm not electing you for public office when you can't even correct a simple spelling error. Either Campbell or one of his representatives needs a refresher course in homonyms!

Well, I really didn't stop reading. I like this guy's idea of the lt. governor's office invested with more responsibility. We just need WAY more authority centered in the executive office in this state.

[goodbye]

I didn't suggest anyone vote for him, but you should read what is said, without criticizing spelling first. How can you be open-minded when you get stopped by something so petty and unimportant ?

[krazeeboi]

Well, I DO think it is important (especially considering that SC is the butt of so many educational jokes), but I edited my post because my curiosity got the best of me.

All of that sounds good, but I've heard this stuff rehashed over and over and over and over again. I really didn't read anything that would make me think that he would make a real difference as far as actual implementation of these ideas are concerned. But I'm withholding judgment until I can get a better feel for the guy.

[Spartan]

Ok everyone, lighten up. Have a sense of humor. People who splel things wrong should not eb critsized!

Campbell is riding his fathers name. He also strikes me as the weasely type. I can't explain why exactly. He just does. The Lt Governor is even more of a figurehead in this state than the Governor, so the position is essentially who you want to replace the Gov. if he leaves the office for any reason.

[krazeeboi]

LOL @ Spartan

You get a pass because you type so quickly.

[monsoon]

Well I can't spell so it didn't bother me. What does bother me is that 99% of that document is nothing but superlatives on basically what any governer should be doing for his state. Of course the governer should work with the rest of the government to brings jobs to SC.

What is missing are any specifics (no surprise here) on what he would do different to address the job loss in SC. The reason that jobs are disappearing is because of the wholesale exporting of those jobs to low cost countries that don't compete fairly against SC due to government policy that people like his father gladly supported. Sounds as if he is taking a page right out of our Administration's political play book. Say good sounding things, don't give any specifics, forget the issue once elected.

And I do find it interesting that he mention's BMW. While I won't deny its good for the state, he forgot to mention how much tax money the state spent to bring those jobs to SC. If his big plan is to spend huge amount of taxes to lure companies to SC, then let him say it, but somehow I suspect this is just him riding on his father's coattails.

For once it would be nice to see a politician who actually proposes a concrete plan that would bring some good to ordinary citizen's lives. Somehow I feel if this is to happen, it won't be first in SC.

[GvilleSC]

And I do find it interesting that he mention's BMW. While I won't deny its good for the state, he forgot to mention how much tax money the state spent to bring those jobs to SC. If his big plan is to spend huge amount of taxes to lure companies to SC, then let him say it, but somehow I suspect this is just him riding on his father's coattails.

Who cares how much tax money it took. Honestly. Look at what we've gotten in return. You have to give a little to get a little- in this case, A LOT! Same thing for Project Pogo-- If it does happen, then it has just created 600 NEW jobs and over 100 million dollars in investment initially.

[monsoon]

Who cares how much tax money it took. Honestly. Look at what we've gotten in return. You have to give a little to get a little- in this case, A LOT! Same thing for Project Pogo-- If it does happen, then it has just created 600 NEW jobs and over 100 million dollars in investment initially.

Because the state can't afford it. 600 jobs isn't many in a state of almost 5 million people. Likewise the state is in a horrible mess from a jobs perspective. Why doesn't he hold his dad responsible for this legacy as well.