GSA/Federal Courts Expansion issue

[vdogg]

Fourth, in reaction to this comment, they simply stated, that the presence of 2-linear feet of 100-year flood plain in on the Bus Station site automatically prevents the entire site from being utilized (see comment 1!!!) not to mention the potential "historical significance" of the Greyhound bus station.

Historical significance of the Greyhound bus site? Who are they kidding? Did they provide any examples of

how this site is historic? Oh, btw, welcome to the forum.

[urbanlife]

Any pictures of the bus depot? I can't remember any reason why this would make it into being classified as historical.

[vdogg]

Any pictures of the bus depot? I can't remember any reason why this would make it into being classified as historical.

There is no reason. I have never in my life heard of anything historical about that site. It's just a reason they through out there to get people off their back.

[urbanvb]

It's historical alright.. cause it's old.

[rmandle]

Any pictures of the bus depot? I can't remember any reason why this would make it into being classified as historical.

I have a picture of the bus station but can't figure out how to post it! Any advice?

[urbanvb]

I have a picture of the bus station but can't figure out how to post it! Any advice?

First, welcome to the forum. first you need to save the picture for hosting such as photobucket.com then you can post here. Here are instructions on how to post here. If you need any other help just let us know.

[vdogg]

GSA wants Monticello How in the world we missed this article is completely beyond me.

It's very informative though, even though it was dated Jan 11th. I honestly don't even remember seeing this in the paper.

The federal government said Tuesday it is considering a new alternative for an expansion to the Walter E. Hoffman U.S. Courthouse, a site to the east that would require taking one block of Monticello Avenue.

A final decision could come by May, but the U.S. General Services Administration, which has been under fire during its site selection process, said it may need even more time depending on environmental effects ......

[lil-bear]

I remeber this article, but i assumed that someone already posted it.

The mayor did say that he strongly opposes this proposition from the GSA.

And I will also assume that most residents feel that same way!

Tell me about grasping for straws!

[rusthebuss]

The GSA is full of morons! It seems like they do everything opposite of what is the best for the cities. You tell them we will give you land and then they attack a local project. MORONS!

[metalman]

So they are really thinking about blocking Monticello traffic? Just creating a dead end on a major artery in and out of downtown?! There freakin' idiots. That's unbelievibly insane!

[vdogg]

So they are really thinking about blocking Monticello traffic? Just creating a dead end on a major artery in and out of downtown?! There freakin' idiots. That's unbelievibly insane!

No more insane than the last 4 ideas they've had.

[urbanlife]

actually I like this idea. That stretch of Monticello is the most under used road in downtown. If the courthouse took those lanes to create a dead end. The rest of that section of road that would stretch from the courthouse annex to City Hall Blvd could be turned into a park/plaza that could mix itself in with the city and the college.

Just like how my college in Portland does. Granted our blocks are almost a hundred years old, but a city has to start somewhere.

http://www.pdx.edu/profiles/5291/

[Former Resident of HR]

actually I like this idea. That stretch of Monticello is the most under used road in downtown. If the courthouse took those lanes to create a dead end. The rest of that section of road that would stretch from the courthouse annex to City Hall Blvd could be turned into a park/plaza that could mix itself in with the city and the college.

Well they have to do something. Having a courthouse sit in the middle of a 6 lane road (can't cars pick up more speed to crash into the building that way?) seems less 'safe' than having an annex across Brambleton. They are total morons. I am sure that they could just build a new one for cheaper, give the old one to Norfolk to renovate into a central library and everyone is happy.

[lammius]

I don't know that I like the idea of closing Monticello. Granted the traffic volumes do not warrant six lanes of infrastructure, the closure would potentially cause problems on St. Pauls and Granby.

Additionally, closing streets to create pedestrian parks/greenways/ped malls, is a difficult thing to make work. Norfolk had a bad experience closing Granby Street in the 1970s. While pedestrian-only zones can work in extremely high density areas or where people are out and about all the time, I think that particular area needs the presence of cars. Passing traffic may be the only presence of people during certain hours and actually adds to the safety one feels walking down the street.

I was in favor of GSA taking one or two lanes of Monticello, but to take the whole thing is a mistake, IMO.

[mikeas]

I don't know that I like the idea of closing Monticello. Granted the traffic volumes do not warrant six lanes of infrastructure, the closure would potentially cause problems on St. Pauls and Granby.

Additionally, closing streets to create pedestrian parks/greenways/ped malls, is a difficult thing to make work. Norfolk had a bad experience closing Granby Street in the 1970s. While pedestrian-only zones can work in extremely high density areas or where people are out and about all the time, I think that particular area needs the presence of cars. Passing traffic may be the only presence of people during certain hours and actually adds to the safety one feels walking down the street.

I was in favor of GSA taking one or two lanes of Monticello, but to take the whole thing is a mistake, IMO.

I'd hate to see the traffic after one of those nights when theres a concert at the Norva, a hockey game at Scope, and a show at Chrysler Hall.

[PeninsulaKiddo]

I'd hate to see the traffic after one of those nights when theres a concert at the Norva, a hockey game at Scope, and a show at Chrysler Hall.

Not to send vdogg into an "off-topic spree", buuuuuuuut I went to an Admirals game last Friday (we won, 6-4 ) and I must say that although the traffic was pretty hefty, people were orderly and the police in DT Norfolk really have their stuff together. I was very impressed (either that or the Coliseum is THAT bad haha).

I do think that this new plan of the GSA is perhaps a bit.... far-fetched... unrealistic... stupid... But as it's been said before, it's the GSA. It's to be expected. Living in Europe, I can vouch for the success and great environs of a pedestrian walking area, but DT Norfolk really has no existing areas conducive to that type of a development as-yet. I think the waterfront blocks of Portsmouth could possibly make it work. MAYBE a few of the side-streets immediately off Granby... MAYBE a few blocks in downtown Hampton... but really, I don't think this area (as lammius said) has the existing density for that, but that's just my opinion and from my experience.

[urbanlife]

its actually a good opinion based on past experiences for the city.

of course it could work on a smaller scale if they use the lanes just south of the site they want to redeveloped into a park and redevelop the parking lots by it into something that would work with the park. Also a great palette to redo the outdated Scope and Chrysler.

Honestly I am just trying to make an idea about an idiot attempt on the GSA's part.

They seriously need to do what they did here in Portland, they built a whole new tower by all the other government buildings in the downtown because there was no land around the old courthouse they could take.

[lil-bear]

There are two good options for the GSA.

1. Build the annex on the Greyhound site.

2. Build a completely new Federal Courhouse in a new couthouse complex with the city. Then the old courthouse can be converted into the new central library.

Both of these have been said many times over, but the GSA just won't listen the reason. There has to be an ounce of comon sense somewhere when it comes to them.

[rmandle]

Just to clarify about the Monticello closure.... I attended that meeting and it was NOT a GSA proposal. The Pilot article following that meeting grossly mis-quoted and misrepresnted. The Monticello closure concept was an alternative senario presented by a local resident. GSA's response was that they would certainly like the idea but that would fall solely at the City's discretion... Something the city will not do.

I also agree with an earlier comment that closed streets do not work well. Retail needs cars no matter how you slice it.

This is a bit off topic, but that is why the recent change to Norfolk's parking policy is a bad idea. What better way to activate a street than to have cars parked along it and have local people with vested interest in the area entering and leaving to tend to their chores. Now we have put those very people away in dark, closed off garages!

[willy]

Isn't the LRT line going up Monticello?

[urbanfan]

Isn't the LRT line going up Monticello?

Yes, but it will not be affected by this at all. The line turns left just before the scope on to Charlotte street.

[willy]

Oh, thanks.

[krdarden]

Yes, but it will not be affected by this at all. The line turns left just before the scope on to Charlotte street.

Why not built it on the site of Radison hotel since it takes up a ridicious amout of land with that funky extension going out in every direction! They could then build a skywalk across monticello to the old courthouse!

[urbanlife]

wait just a minute krdarden, this is the GSA we talking about. Proposing ideas like that are just going to confuse them and they don't need anymore stress on their tiny little brains.

[Chesapeake Pirate]

At tonight's meeting of the Freemason Street Area Association, I asked Mayer Fraim for an update on the cities position regarding the Federal courthouse expansion. He started off by reviewing the Granby Tower issue and how it was pretty certain that expanding west was not going to happen. He then went on to talk about how frustrating it has been dealing with the GSA over the years, and how on several occasions over the last several years they have said a decision was going to be made in 60 days. He's still waiting, but, and this is a big BUT...........he then asked if there were any reporters in the room. When no one was so identified, he said that new architects with expertise in designing expansions/additions that go vertical were on the job and he was hearing that this was the direction they were now favoring. It had been given the blessing of the judges, which is apparently important. So, either this is true or he at least felt comfortable in putting this out there to help start a little drumbeat going for very serious consideration of vertical expansion of the federal courthouse.