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Riverfront Project

GRDadof3

By GRDadof3
in Grand Rapids

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GRDadof3 Ecumenopolis

GRDadof3

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At least a casino could bring in the kind of revenue that we're talking about to have canals :D Here's a thought, instead of having an Amsterdam/Venice theme, how about more of an industrial sawmill, furniture factory theme with canals running through it (for obvious reasons). Still have two towers, one a defined hotel chain, and the other hotel/condos. Call it "Furniture City USA" or something.

edit: I'm in! :thumbsup:

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snoogit Town

snoogit

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At least a casino could bring in the kind of revenue that we're talking about to have canals :D Here's a thought, instead of having an Amsterdam/Venice theme, how about more of an industrial sawmill, furniture factory theme with canals running through it (for obvious reasons). Still have two towers, one a defined hotel chain, and the other hotel/condos. Call it "Furniture City USA" or something.

edit: I'm in! :thumbsup:

I personally would prefer a new amsterdam theme. FUrniture City USA just screams "cheese" to me (not to offend ya)

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GRDadof3 Ecumenopolis

GRDadof3

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I personally would prefer a new amsterdam theme. FUrniture City USA just screams "cheese" to me (not to offend ya)

No problem :) I'm just throwing out ideas. I just think something glitzy like the Bellagio might be not our style. Amsterdam maybe.

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twoshort Town

twoshort

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No problem :) I'm just throwing out ideas. I just think something glitzy like the Bellagio might be not our style. Amsterdam maybe.

I definately don't think Bellagio is the theme we need. I'm thinking something older looking, lots of brick, kind of like all the warehouse rennovation going on in our city. More like greektown, less like Bellagio.

And with canals. :w00t:

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torgo Town

torgo

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What ever theme is chosen I think it must have some kind of Grand Rapids included in it somehow, but snoogit is right - No Cheese

Every casino I've been to was tacky, obnoxious and depressing and I'm inclined to tell you all that building one is a terrible idea, but there are benefits, and if it was done right it might be a decent addition. Granted, 18,000 people a day is going require a parking ramp the size of Texas, but economically speaking its not necessarily a bad idea. I would prefer something a little more 'organic' for that site, but that's just me. ;) I fear that a casino is going to be tarted up and look like a cartoon. :sick:

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john_denver Hamlet

john_denver

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How could we add value to the downtown by not only making a project like this economically successful but also to improve the sustainability of urban living and working?

A Casino might work if done properly and if the other development balanced it out.

What about a market in the spirit of "Pike Place Market" in Seattle? A mix of groceries, fresh produce, seafood, restaurants. PP Market is such a gathering place, so much fun to even walk through.

With a Casino, residential and market type groceries the dowtown urban area could almost be self-supporting and financially sound.

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twoshort Town

twoshort

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Every casino I've been to was tacky, obnoxious and depressing and I'm inclined to tell you all that building one is a terrible idea, but there are benefits, and if it was done right it might be a decent addition. Granted, 18,000 people a day is going require a parking ramp the size of Texas, but economically speaking its not necessarily a bad idea. I would prefer something a little more 'organic' for that site, but that's just me. ;) I fear that a casino is going to be tarted up and look like a cartoon. :sick:

I like the casino idea only for the amount of people it would draw which in turn would bring more retail. I picture a good looking building flanked by high-end retail.. and that's just attractive. I do agree with you that they are obnoxious and all that but it seems like it could be good economically.

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PBJ Burg

PBJ

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I like the casino idea only for the amount of people it would draw which in turn would bring more retail. I picture a good looking building flanked by high-end retail.. and that's just attractive. I do agree with you that they are obnoxious and all that but it seems like it could be good economically.

They also bring a HUGE gain in employement #'s.

Of course the city would have to make sure they don't just build a pole barn with parking lots around it (i've seen em like this and the suck). But the revenue/employment #'s would be hard to beat. The other problem is standard indian casino's take MUCH of the money for themselves, convincing them to give some of that up for the better of the city may be a daunting task.

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GaryP Burg

GaryP

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They also bring a HUGE gain in employement #'s.

Of course the city would have to make sure they don't just build a pole barn with parking lots around it (i've seen em like this and the suck). But the revenue/employment #'s would be hard to beat. The other problem is standard indian casino's take MUCH of the money for themselves, convincing them to give some of that up for the better of the city may be a daunting task.

That is where my three points came in. It wouldn't be something the tribe would like, but if the development was done right, the benefits for the tribe would outwiegh current Indian casino benefits like not paying taxes and screwing over patrons with high terrible odds.

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fishboy Unincorporated Area

fishboy

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I personally would prefer a new amsterdam theme. FUrniture City USA just screams "cheese" to me (not to offend ya)

I think you would be better served to exploit our city's rich automotive history. We could call it "Auto World" and build a large geodesic dome complete with a v8 engine block and indoor ferris wheel. :rofl:

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GaryP Burg

GaryP

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And the fact that they are politically divisive and it would likely be a humongous fight to get one in that location.

This is going to be the biggest issue. How do you get everyone on board? I'm guessing you'd need legislation passed at the state level and huge support at city level.

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GRDadof3 Ecumenopolis

GRDadof3

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You guys rock! I think you could get the Chamber on board with the casino. They're way against the Wayland casino. I'm thinking something along the lines of Jack Buchanan's Chelsea Market idea mixed with Pike Street Market mixed with Minneapolis Milling District mixed with Greektown/Trapper's Alley:

Derby%20Heritage%2010.jpg

MM_Courtyard_72.jpg

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PikeStreetMarketInterior2.jpg

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I know it's hard to recreate old factories without getting cartoonish, but with the right architect, it can be done. Anchored with a casino on the South end.

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GRCentro Hamlet

GRCentro

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Although we're all just digging up ideas, considering the land isn't even for sale yet, care to expound on that? :huh:

Sure. In addition to valid concerns over creating addiction, I don't think urban casinos are the economic bouy they say they can be. Sure, they'll claim to be able to create fabulous tax revenue and employment numbers, but in the end, does the community actually reap benefit? Doubtful. Look at Detroit. They turned to gambling out of economic desperation. Have three glizty urban casinos really improved their city? Now they have a few pretty buildings, but the wealth certainly hasn't spilled far beyond the casino walls.

Futhermore, as already mentioned, the political debate would be enormous. After years of debating we would still have a prime riverfront property sitting idle, unsold and unused.

I know we're just throwing out ideas PBJ; this is just my POV.

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PBJ Burg

PBJ

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Sure. In addition to valid concerns over creating addiction, I don't think urban casinos are the economic bouy they say they can be. Sure, they'll claim to be able to create fabulous tax revenue and employment numbers, but in the end, does the community actually reap benefit? Doubtful. Look at Detroit. They turned to gambling out of economic desperation. Have three glizty urban casinos really improved their city? Now they have a few pretty buildings, but the wealth certainly hasn't spilled far beyond the casino walls.

Futhermore, as already mentioned, the political debate would be enormous. After years of debating we would still have a prime riverfront property sitting idle, unsold and unused.

I know we're just throwing out ideas PBJ; this is just my POV.

Oh, i completely agree with you as far as detroit goes, those places seem to suck the money out of the people who need it the most (and the people who should spend the least amount of time gambling thier money away). I just wanted to hear your "good reasons". :blush:

(I still like the mixed use market/housing/retail idea :D )

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NorthCoast Hamlet

NorthCoast

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I still think that with the right plan and developments around it, a Market on Market could really revitalize the area. I brought this up earlier in the post but I don't think I did a real good job selling it. I'm basing this suggestion off of historic Findlay Market located in a section of Cincinnati known as "Over the Rhine". This is an area of town in which almost no new buildings have been built in the past 100 years making it one of the best preserved 19th century neighborhoods in the country per Cincinnati Transit. Unfortunately like many older neighborhoods from about 1945-Present it suffered from severe urban decline due to the flight to suburbia and poor city planning. The refurbishing of this market has been one of the cornerstones to breathing new life into this district and has helped to begin revitalizing the neighborhood around it.

findlay_600x327.jpg

Findlay Market

I wish I could provide other examples but Cincinnati is the only other city I really know asides from GR.

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GaryP Burg

GaryP

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Sure. In addition to valid concerns over creating addiction, I don't think urban casinos are the economic bouy they say they can be. Sure, they'll claim to be able to create fabulous tax revenue and employment numbers, but in the end, does the community actually reap benefit? Doubtful. Look at Detroit. They turned to gambling out of economic desperation. Have three glizty urban casinos really improved their city? Now they have a few pretty buildings, but the wealth certainly hasn't spilled far beyond the casino walls.

Futhermore, as already mentioned, the political debate would be enormous. After years of debating we would still have a prime riverfront property sitting idle, unsold and unused.

I know we're just throwing out ideas PBJ; this is just my POV.

I don't see the casino as being an economic bouy; I see it as an enabler for the creation of an economic bouy. Grand Rapids would be a better city if it had some regional shopping draw and an interesting tourist attraction on our most underutilized natural reasource. If we have to have a casino to get this stuff, then so be it.

I guess my biggest argument in favor of this is that we're going to get one (in one location or another) and this is the opportunity for us to make the best of it.

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