Riverfront Project

[GRDadof3]

Look around this location, its basicly industrial or heavy commerical.. Would this hamper on a residential and entertainment development?

Well, if you think about it, we're asking for a big chunk with the parking garage, Moch is looking to build an apartment building on Williams, and Azzar has the old garage by the ITP for sale. There are some empty lots in that block that would be re-used. Something like this is so big it would act as a catalyst.

[GaryP]

Look around this location, its basicly industrial or heavy commerical.. Would this hamper on a residential and entertainment development?

It could if we didn't get the right development here. But I think we need to see this as the 'hook' opportunity that we have been talking about. If we can get the right destination retail and entertainment venues, I don't see any problem getting people to live nearby and ignoring some of the industrial stuff there now.

EDIT: or what Jeff said

[PBJ]

Look around this location, its basicly industrial or heavy commerical.. Would this hamper on a residential and entertainment development?

Look at north monroe

just sayin...

[snoogit]

I'm more concerned about the planned strip club right across the street, its gonna take a huge sales job to sell this land. with that there.

[GRDadof3]

Yah snoogit, that's in the back of my mind too. I think the city needs to embrace London and start working with him on minimizing the impact of Showgirls in that area.

[Nitro]

I like the modern Amsterdam theme, just don't put in any coffee shops

You can borrow some red lights from the strip club.......

[GaryP]

If it isn't too late and we could get a plan together, maybe London could be convinced that his spot would be worth a hell of a lot more if we could put a development on the river on the scale we have been talking about. And that it won't happen if his club is there.

[Rizzo]

Strip clubs, legalisation of pot, and what else....hmm whores. You have DutchLand! the great Grand Rapids attraction that will bring people from all walks of life.

[Nitro]

If it isn't too late and we could get a plan together, maybe London could be convinced that his spot would be worth a hell of a lot more if we could put a development on the river on the scale we have been talking about. And that it won't happen if his club is there.

You've got about a snowball's chance of that happening. Considering he is fairly close to opening up. My guess is he's thinking that new neighbors will be good for business.

[GRDadof3]

You've got about a snowball's chance of that happening. Considering he is fairly close to opening up. My guess is he's thinking that new neighbors will be good for business.

Close to opening? That place doesn't look any different then it did a month ago. Not that I'm keeping track of those kinds of things As I mentioned, if you only allow a small sign on the outside (and not twirling fish-net stocking legs), no one would ever know that is going on inside. Based on his site plan, it looks like he's putting the entrance in a recessed drive-in area off of Market, and not right out on Market. It's in the Planninc Commission agenda. I'll see if I can dig it up. Isn't the city looking at adopting ordinances that would basically make it impossible to for London to operate a strip club there?

Here it is (if you can read it):

Obviously it looks huge in this site plan, but you can see on the other maps it's not that big. I don't know if he is using that half-finished steel warehouse building or not.

[GrandRiverCityKid]

I'm more concerned about the planned strip club right across the street, its gonna take a huge sales job to sell this land. with that there.

Not if we build an even bigger, 'World's Largest Strip Club' there!!!

In all seriousness, all I want is something that truly incorporates the river and brings regional attention and attraction. I'd love to have a bar-deck overlooking the river in this town, maybe some riverside shops plus Parisian-style bouquinists...maybe a cross between Cleveland Flats District/SanAntonio Riverwalk. Our own Grand River District.

Cleveland

Riverwalk

[snoogit]

Yah snoogit, that's in the back of my mind too. I think the city needs to embrace London and start working with him on minimizing the impact of Showgirls in that area.

Well the current showgirls at 28th and Ebeltline is obscured by centerpointe mall, so who knows?

[GaryP]

Well the current showgirls at 28th and Ebeltline is obscured by centerpointe mall, so who knows?

That's a good point. Maybe it won't be a deal breaker.

[blueman459]

Just saw this thread. I work for the city and this really suprises me. If its the land I'm thinking of, it houses all of the sanitation, streets, and other departments for the city. As a police officer we gas our patrol cars there and all the maintenance for the city vehicles is done there. If this is to happen, I don't know where they think they'll move all all of these departments. However, maybe the city is already working with a developer that wants the land. For the city to have to purchase new land and build new buildings to house all the departments, the profits from the land will be gone. Just my 2 cents

[GRDadof3]

There are ways of "classing" up the joint. The urbanites downtown won't care, and the suburbanites will get off at Wealthy, enter the parking garage, take the skywalk and probably never see it. You can also position the entry points of the mall so you're not looking right at the place. The people living in the towers will be looking at the roof of Showgirls.

Blueman, there has got to be already city-owned land that is not being used to its full potential, that holds a MUCH LOWER land value than a riverfront parcel. What about some of the DASH lots on the West side? The same questions were asked by the Press and other commissioners, but they wouldn't make any statements for fear of speculative buying.

[twoshort]

As a police officer we gas our patrol cars there and all the maintenance for the city vehicles is done there.

mmmm, smells like contamination

[GRDadof3]

mmmm, smells like contamination

Always something, isn't there And we wonder why developers can't get anything off the ground here...

Also blueman, you fail to take into account the huge TAX REVENUE something like this brings in. City-owned land is obviously not taxed (duh) so it brings in $0 revenue in its current use. Even if you sell the land for $40 million and build new facilities for $40 million, you're still way ahead.

[GrandRiverCityKid]

There are ways of "classing" up the joint. The urbanites downtown won't care, and the suburbanites will get off at Wealthy, enter the parking garage, take the skywalk and probably never see it. You can also position the entry points of the mall so you're not looking right at the place. The people living in the towers will be looking at the roof of Showgirls.

If it is kept 'upscale' enough, i think it could fit in. Many many cities have obscure spots for businessmen to have lunch and watch a show kind of thing. There's a thought that it's better to have adult ent. in well worn areas amongst mixed use buildings...keeps any shady deadlings away. But only if it is upscale enough.

[GaryP]

There are ways of "classing" up the joint. The urbanites downtown won't care, and the suburbanites will get off at Wealthy, enter the parking garage, take the skywalk and probably never see it. You can also position the entry points of the mall so you're not looking right at the place. The people living in the towers will be looking at the roof of Showgirls.

Blueman, there has got to be already city-owned land that is not being used to its full potential, that holds a MUCH LOWER land value than a riverfront parcel. What about some of the DASH lots on the West side? The same questions were asked by the Press and other commissioners, but they wouldn't make any statements for fear of speculative buying.

Suburbanites from the North would get off on market though and end up driving right by the club on the way to the ramp. Anything we can do about that?

I think you've got it right. Work with the guy and make him respect whatever is going to happen with this 19 acres and everything will be alright.

[blueman459]

I agree with the dash lots. There is a ton of open lots around the city that could house all these depts. I would love the city to sell this land and build new. Anything would look better that these outdated building on this river front property. However, knowing the city I'm not getting my hopes up. I don't mean to be a the negative guy, but we all know that being from this city were all use to disappointments.

[GRDadof3]

I'm with GRCK, connect a skywalk right to Showgirls! As far as Southbound traffic, they'll be too "shock-n-awed" by the mall development that their attention will be drawn in that direction. Especially if the entrance to Showgirls is tucked away in this "court" as the site plan shows (?) I think.

[GRDadof3]

Here ya go:

OK, the Treasures is a little cheezy, but you get the point. He can call it SG - Gentlemen's Club or something. Omar's in Lansing was about a block from the capitol on Michigan Ave (don't know if it is still there). I think that was a gentlemen's club.

[Prankster]

mmmm, smells like contamination

Some of the most contaminated sites in Grand Rapids are in that area. At DTE, they are discouraged from drinking the water in the drinking fountains. Supposedly, the ground is so contaminated that it affects the water lines that run through it. This info is coming directly from the Facilities Manager of that site.

[GRDadof3]

That may be a blessing in disguise: it might qualify for Federal clean-up funds. Trying to stay positive

[Rizzo]

Boy I wonder what would be in the grounds that would penetrate piping... I wonder?