Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

Nitro

Nimby'ism

Recommended Posts

Check out this interesting article. I think their sample size might be a little bit small but interesting results.

http://www.bdcnetwork.com/article/CA6298304.html

"A vast majority of Americans oppose new development in their communities. Some 73% of Americans said their community was fine the way it is or over-developed. Some 83% of suburban Americans do not want new development in their communities."

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites


So most people truly are BANANA's :huh: Although, I should say that we've seen several instances here locally where it seems the City Planners are totally disregarding the Master Plans that were created. But, I also understand it's not possible to foresee every opportunity that might come down the road.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Check out this interesting article. I think their sample size might be a little bit small but interesting results.

http://www.bdcnetwork.com/article/CA6298304.html

"A vast majority of Americans oppose new development in their communities. Some 73% of Americans said their community was fine the way it is or over-developed. Some 83% of suburban Americans do not want new development in their communities."

I'll probably get killed for saying this, but keep in mind I'm only playing devils advocate here. I think the numbers are pretty much on the money. I ask, can you blame them for being a nimby? Most of these people have ZERO comprehension of the nature of suburbia or town planning, they just find what they think is a nice house in a subdivision and buy it. If its waaaay out there, they might even have a wooded back yard. Now some a-hole developer comes in, bulldozes all the trees and builds a bunch of houses right where the lovely woods used to be. Now there is more traffic, more noise, more people, which is probably what most of them are trying to escape in the first place!

It is my personal opinion that you can have both. If you want country, thats fine, go buy 20 acres. If you want all the conveniences of the city, then live in the dang city!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

But, I also understand it's not possible to foresee every opportunity that might come down the road.

Isn't that what the planning commission is for? I thought that they were there to manage the exceptions. My understanding was that as long as a project met the criteria of the master plan, it would be streamlined through the approval process.

Anyone with more insight than me care to expound? :whistling:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'll probably get killed for saying this, but keep in mind I'm only playing devils advocate here. I think the numbers are pretty much on the money. I ask, can you blame them for being a nimby? Most of these people have ZERO comprehension of the nature of suburbia or town planning, they just find what they think is a nice house in a subdivision and buy it. If its waaaay out there, they might even have a wooded back yard. Now some a-hole developer comes in, bulldozes all the trees and builds a bunch of houses right where the lovely woods used to be. Now there is more traffic, more noise, more people, which is probably what most of them are trying to escape in the first place!

It is my personal opinion that you can have both. If you want country, thats fine, go buy 20 acres. If you want all the conveniences of the city, then live in the dang city!

I agree 100% :thumbsup:

People need to stop thinking they are going to get the best of both worlds. You aren't going to have total serenity and a 10 minute drive to downtown. Live in the city or live in the country; enough with 1 acre lots and strip centers with 50 car parking per store. It isn't sustainable or maintainable; what will it take to make people understand this?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Isn't that what the planning commission is for? I thought that they were there to manage the exceptions. My understanding was that as long as a project met the criteria of the master plan, it would be streamlined through the approval process.

Anyone with more insight than me care to expound? :whistling:

There is actually a lot more to it than that. First and foremost, it has to conform to the Zoning Ordinance. It can get surprising complicated very quickly. It all depends on what the project is and where its located. I could go further but it would be a looooong post. ;)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

NIMBY's are not just in the suburbs and rural areas, guys. I seem to remember quite a contingent of NIMBY's from Monroe Terrace and Plaza Towers recently. As Andy said, land use and planning is much more complicated than most average citizens can grasp (hope that doesn't sound bad). They can't see the forest for the trees. I don't get it half the time :huh:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

You also have to get that you guys are more educated then the average home buyer... People don't care for facts, fiqures, theory, or urban design and planning, they want their place in the world and to keep it that way for as long as they are there. But respectfully, if you come to the city and expect your view to remain there for enternity, you have to sell and get the hell out, quickly. I wonder if NIMBY'ism cotributes to sprawl? "I can't take it anymore! First I had to look at a D&W for a five years, now a friggin Meijers, NO WAY JOSE! I'm moving away."

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

You also have to get that you guys are more educated then the average home buyer... People don't care for facts, fiqures, theory, or urban design and planning, they want their place in the world and to keep it that way for as long as they are there.

This circulated on the GVMC listserv a couple of weeks ago. It fits here pretty well.

The Objector's Checklist

Your application for rezoning, development plan/site plan/landscaping approval in nearly any community will be certain to raise the ire of at least a few local homeowners. Some are anti-development/anti-sprawl types, some fancy themselves as environmentalists (bunny huggers, tree huggers), some just dislike new development and may have lived there when the 8 lane commercial boulevard was "just a dirt road" and yet others just like to object to something. One thing they all seem to have in common is that they are there and want nothing to do with anything or anybody else discovering their little piece of heaven. The Objectors often rally and come out to the public meetings in force and commonly cloak their exclusionary, self-serving rants in lofty terms suggesting a higher community purpose for their participation.

The Objector's Checklist offers a menu of subjects upon which an Objector may wish to base his/her opposition to whatever project he/she/it deems to be a threat.

1) I've been here my whole life & remember when (insert major road name) was just a dirt road.

2) I just moved here 5 years ago (along with 50,000 others) to get away from that kind of thing (they'll name the store or use they object to - Meijer, WalMart, etc.).

3) I just moved in and our (residential) developer didn't tell us there would be retail projects developed along (insert the name of the 8 lane commercial boulevard).

4) It will lower my property values.

5) It will attract crime.

6) It will create too much noise.

7) It will bring too much traffic. 1st corollary - the streets can't handle the traffic (the "kids will get squished argument).

8) It will create too much trash.

9) It will smell. (This is a favorite when objecting to a restaurant that serves whatever the Objector doesn't like to eat).

10) It will block my view of (insert natural feature that the housing developer convinced the new home buyer would always be visible).

11) Nobody told us the empty field might be developed.

12) It will bring the wrong element into our neighborhood (often reserved for low or moderate-income housing projects). You know.those people. (Code for different nationality, race, color, religion, blue collar/white collar, etc.).

13) It will cause flooding.

14) It will dry up our wells.

15) The water, sewers, storm sewers are not adequate.

16) The realtor lied.

17) The developer lied.

18) Why, he'll make a killing on that land!

19) There is no market for what the developer proposes. 1st corollary - the (insert - developer, retailer, whichever applies) doesn't know what he is doing/doesn't know his business. Said about the developer.

20) You don't know what you are doing. Said to the developer.

21) You don't know what you are doing. Said to the Planning Commission, ZBA, City Council.

22) It would make a great place for a (insert - park, nature preserve, community center, etc.)

23) Why, we use that property as (insert - an extension of our back yard, park, etc.)

24) My little (insert son, daughter, or better yet, the name of the tyke) a) rides his/her bike, b) catches butterflies, c) hunts rabbits/squirrels (or other small mammals) on that land.

25) I use that property for a garden.

26) There's a wetland on that property (supplemented by calls to the DNR).

27) Nobody ever asked for my opinion when the (insert - Comprehensive Plan, Zoning Ordinance, Subdivision Ordinance) was adopted.

28) Nobody sent me a notice (usually heard from those outside the 300' statutory notice area).

29) We define our neighborhood to include whatever we want.

30) It will lower my property values.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Nitro, a true classic. I wonder if presented to people, they would recognize how foolish they really sound when presenting these arguements. Some of these smell of the "Whats mine is mine, and whats yours is mine".

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

NIMBY's are not just in the suburbs and rural areas, guys. I seem to remember quite a contingent of NIMBY's from Monroe Terrace and Plaza Towers recently. As Andy said, land use and planning is much more complicated than most average citizens can grasp (hope that doesn't sound bad). They can't see the forest for the trees. I don't get it half the time :huh:

My question is should there be any respect for existing tenants or residents? Sometimes a minor plan change can have a huge impact. The football shape of the Alticor hotel did wonders for maintaining views from the Forslund building. Too bad not all new buildings respects the existing context in that way. Unfortunately some developers think they need to build on every square foot available and don't understand buffer space. There are much better design solutions than building to every property line and going straight up. Also, should some of the people you mentioned really be called NIMBY's because they don't think first floors should be fortress like? It really comes down to the quality of developer and how they try to fit into the existing context and not overrun the existing context.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

This circulated on the GVMC listserv a couple of weeks ago. It fits here pretty well.

The Objector's Checklist

Your application for rezoning, development plan/site plan/landscaping approval in nearly any community will be certain to raise the ire of at least a few local homeowners. Some are anti-development/anti-sprawl types, some fancy themselves as environmentalists (bunny huggers, tree huggers), some just dislike new development and may have lived there when the 8 lane commercial boulevard was "just a dirt road" and yet others just like to object to something. One thing they all seem to have in common is that they are there and want nothing to do with anything or anybody else discovering their little piece of heaven. The Objectors often rally and come out to the public meetings in force and commonly cloak their exclusionary, self-serving rants in lofty terms suggesting a higher community purpose for their participation.

The Objector's Checklist offers a menu of subjects upon which an Objector may wish to base his/her opposition to whatever project he/she/it deems to be a threat.

1) I've been here my whole life & remember when (insert major road name) was just a dirt road.

2) I just moved here 5 years ago (along with 50,000 others) to get away from that kind of thing (they'll name the store or use they object to - Meijer, WalMart, etc.).

3) I just moved in and our (residential) developer didn't tell us there would be retail projects developed along (insert the name of the 8 lane commercial boulevard).

4) It will lower my property values.

5) It will attract crime.

6) It will create too much noise.

7) It will bring too much traffic. 1st corollary - the streets can't handle the traffic (the "kids will get squished argument).

8) It will create too much trash.

9) It will smell. (This is a favorite when objecting to a restaurant that serves whatever the Objector doesn't like to eat).

10) It will block my view of (insert natural feature that the housing developer convinced the new home buyer would always be visible).

11) Nobody told us the empty field might be developed.

12) It will bring the wrong element into our neighborhood (often reserved for low or moderate-income housing projects). You know.those people. (Code for different nationality, race, color, religion, blue collar/white collar, etc.).

13) It will cause flooding.

14) It will dry up our wells.

15) The water, sewers, storm sewers are not adequate.

16) The realtor lied.

17) The developer lied.

18) Why, he'll make a killing on that land!

19) There is no market for what the developer proposes. 1st corollary - the (insert - developer, retailer, whichever applies) doesn't know what he is doing/doesn't know his business. Said about the developer.

20) You don't know what you are doing. Said to the developer.

21) You don't know what you are doing. Said to the Planning Commission, ZBA, City Council.

22) It would make a great place for a (insert - park, nature preserve, community center, etc.)

23) Why, we use that property as (insert - an extension of our back yard, park, etc.)

24) My little (insert son, daughter, or better yet, the name of the tyke) a) rides his/her bike, b) catches butterflies, c) hunts rabbits/squirrels (or other small mammals) on that land.

25) I use that property for a garden.

26) There's a wetland on that property (supplemented by calls to the DNR).

27) Nobody ever asked for my opinion when the (insert - Comprehensive Plan, Zoning Ordinance, Subdivision Ordinance) was adopted.

28) Nobody sent me a notice (usually heard from those outside the 300' statutory notice area).

29) We define our neighborhood to include whatever we want.

30) It will lower my property values.

:rofl: Having been to a few hearings, that is spot on! I heard a guy say he used to play frisbee where the Knapp's Corner Meijer is, and I almost choked on the coffee I was drinking. I also like the "my realtor never told me that the 'busiest corner in West Michigan' may actually not stay an empty field but might actually become something commercial". :rolleyes:

I missed designcritic, who does raise valid points. Some people have been "burned" by past developers who ruin it for the good ones.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I always love how NIMBYs always use the "Too much traffic" excuse to kill projects near there neighborhood, but have no problem driving through other neighborhoods in order to get to the same development that they cant have near them.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

i probobly sound stupid, but im new to this whole thing.......what exactly is a NIMBY??? :blush:

Not In My Back Yard :shok:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

i probobly sound stupid, but im new to this whole thing.......what exactly is a NIMBY??? :blush:

NIMBY stands for Not In My BackYard. This name is given to people who oppose development of any sort within the vicinity of not only their house but their neighborhood and community. While usually perceived to be people who live mostly in smaller rural or urban areas but it is prevalent in urban areas too. There is a time and a place for this attitude...for instance when a Wal-Mart tries to move in across the street but in the cases such as mass transit like highways and rail systems which may provide for the greater good, it can be a huge detractor and frankly, annoying.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

NIMBY stands for Not In My BackYard. This name is given to people who oppose development of any sort within the vicinity of not only their house but their neighborhood and community. While usually perceived to be people who live mostly in smaller rural or urban areas but it is prevalent in urban areas too. There is a time and a place for this attitude...for instance when a Wal-Mart tries to move in across the street but in the cases such as mass transit like highways and rail systems which may provide for the greater good, it can be a huge detractor and frankly, annoying.

Apparently there's a 9 in 10 chance you will be a NIMBY at one time in your life (according to the article). j3shafer's right, sometimes it's legitimate.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Apparently there's a 9 in 10 chance you will be a NIMBY at one time in your life (according to the article). j3shafer's right, sometimes it's legitimate.

I think most people associate being a NIMBY with a suburbanite living in a tacky subdivision going to a planning commission meeting and raising all kinds of hell when some other guy wants to build a subdivision next to theirs. I would also venture to say that most (not all) ninbys live in the burbs, as opposed to the urban areas.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I think most people associate being a NIMBY with a suburbanite living in a tacky subdivision going to a planning commission meeting and raising all kinds of hell when some other guy wants to build a subdivision next to theirs. I would also venture to say that most (not all) ninbys live in the burbs, as opposed to the urban areas.

Probably so, because that's where most of the development is taking place, and many suburbanites are there because they don't want development. What a vicious cycle..

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It does have a time and place. I, for one, wouldn't want to see the onion field next to my house the site of a new super center Wal-Mart. Part of the philosophy of smart growth is to build upon what you have.

I learned an interesting stat yesterday that Ottawa County is the number one agricultural county in the entire state. It is also the fastest growing. It raises the crucial question of how does one balance these two factors. Kent County is within the top 10 of that list and is considered one of the best places to grow apples in the entire nation.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It seems to me that being considered a NIMBY is something that has connotations of being self-centered, out of touch, and anti-development. I think that can be true, but it doesn't necessarily have to be true. I was brought up in a rural area and my parents still live there and now I can see development pressures on the surrounding countryside. It saddens me to think of the destruction of the natural landscape and the increase in traffic and pollution. I do not want to see this "slice of heaven" developed. How do I cope with it? I do not contribute to it by moving right into the middle of the city. I am very pro-development, but it is development in the right places. Instead of building 200 homes sprawled over hundreds of acres of land, I would rather see 200 condo or apartment units built over retail shops on a very small piece of real estate. The downtown and near-downtown areas still have many unused or underused lots. Let's build those out instead of moving farther into country and turning it into something that's not rural and also something that doen't have the vitality or energy of a city.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Well said, and I think most here would agree with you. Its more of the folks who live in the city, expecting to have their, "slice of heaven." How can you expect that in the city?!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

NIMBY stands for Not In My BackYard. This name is given to people who oppose development of any sort within the vicinity of not only their house but their neighborhood and community. While usually perceived to be people who live mostly in smaller rural or urban areas but it is prevalent in urban areas too. There is a time and a place for this attitude...for instance when a Wal-Mart tries to move in across the street but in the cases such as mass transit like highways and rail systems which may provide for the greater good, it can be a huge detractor and frankly, annoying.

oooohhh ok thanks...i hate people like that

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.