Gun crimes in Toronto 'out of control'

[G W North]

Gun crimes 'out of control'

Many weapons can be traced to United States, police say

Toronto hit by wave of gun violence over the weekend

BETSY POWELL

CRIME REPORTER

The police report on this past's weekend violence goes something like this: two homicide victims, both dead from gunshot wounds. Gunfights outside booze cans. An unco-operative gunshot victim turns up in hospital, an unknown assailant shoots a man in the back, stray bullets rip into another home in Scarborough and a gunman fires a shotgun blast through the patio doors of a townhouse.

To police trying to stem the tide of gang- and gun-related violence, it was another example of gun crime escalating in Toronto. "Most weekends we have two or three shootings, and it is out of control," acting Staff Superintendent Ken Cenzura said yesterday.

"It's not a very pretty picture."

Guns are finding their way into the hands of criminals on Toronto streets.

The question is how

[monsoon]

[Guest donaltopablo]

I'm not a big fan of gun ownership. I think hang guns should be reduced in the this country, and hunting rifles and shotguns allowed with serious restrictions on how they are kept. This should reduce accidental shooting and help reduce (hopefully) thefts of weapons.

I don't "hate" gun ownership, but I've grown to believe that reducing the number and type is probably a good thing. Having a few rifles or shotguns is alright. They often house fewer rounds, considerably more difficult to conceal. But doesn't complete restrict the ability to own guns, or sportsman gun owners.

[G W North]

I don't mind people owning hunting rifles, but ot me the idea that the general public could own handguns is deplorable. Handguns should be only for police officers, federal agents, etc. IMO.

[thumper]

Why is it deplorable?

[tocoto]

In the US, keeping and bearing arms is a constitutional right, it won't be going away soon. It keeps the Feds honest, or at least that's what the founding fathers thought. Gun safety training and voluntary abstinence are good.

[Guest donaltopablo]

In the US, keeping and bearing arms is a constitutional right, it won't be going away soon. It keeps the Feds honest, or at least that's what the founding fathers thought. Gun safety training and voluntary abstinence are good.

I think the comment you made is probably one of the most debatable topics in American history.

Just so everyone is clear, I believe the debate is about the founding fathers meant in the second amendment. Personally, as I mentioned early in this thread, I have no problem with certain types of guns.

But the debate itself, what that little ',' means. Does it mean, right to bare arms as part of a milita... or right to bear arms AND have a militia.

But I'm not in favor of banning weapons for private citizens all together. I am, however, in favor of considerably reducing the number of handguns. I believe their overall effect is negative. Rifles and shotguns accomplish the overall effect of allowing for personal, home based protection, as well as ensuring that the average citizen is armed, if they choose to be. However, it greatly decreases the concealability of the average weapon, which although I don't think would produce immedate results in terms of reducing crimes, would eventually.

[Scott]

I love the logic of this article: 'If only the US had decent gun control...' that's the same logic the US uses on drugs 'If only Columbia would crack down on cocaine growers there would be no drug problem' All cities have crime issues and Toronto is no different.

[monsoon]

[G W North]

"Violent crime" is defined differently. In Canada auto theft is considered "violent crime" for example. If you actually compare the same crimes, Canada's per capita rate is far lower. The homicide rate for example is less than one-third. Canada has a higher rate of property crime, but much less violent crime.

[monsoon]

[G W North]

The article was about gun crimes. If any reference is made in the thread to crime rates it should be to rates of crime involving guns.

Anyways, a guy I went to high school with was murdered when he was shot in the head in a drug deal. I need no more convincing than that that the general public should not be touching handguns.

[M. Brown]

It depends. Gangs use hand guns to kill each other which is not right. Some people use hand guns for protection. They should limit the sell of hand guns at least. Or not sell them any gun in a store and only be able to buy them from the govenment. That way we would not be giving them to the criminals. And if they want to try to sneek them in we got all the security at the airports and stuff. And while they do that, they should kick all the hate groups out of the country and never let them back in or put them in prison at least, because I recenty saw a map of locations of Hate groups in the US. I wanted to cry. And being an Afro - American makes it even worse. It gets me mad when the I think of what the government has done to try and stop that...because they have done nothing.

[Allan]

I saw that hate group map over at SSP. It was scary! I had no idea there were so many hate groups still in existance, some of which are right near my community! This is 2004...it's hard to believe that stuff like this is still going on.

[passdoubt]

Overall, Toronto has a much lower raw crime rate than really any sizable American city.

Crime Rates (Per 100,000 Population)

  Toronto, ON 48

  Montreal, QC 177

  Louisville, KY 181

  Brooklyn, NY 225

  Vancouver, BC 239

  Boston, MA 259

  Bridgeport, CT 266

  Los Angeles, CA 283

  Cincinnati, OH 326

  Wilmington, DE 330

  Atlantic City, NJ 331

  Philadelphia, PA 343

  Chicago, IL 374

  Birmingham, AL 383

Although I think gun control would help the American urban crime problem, it's really simplistic to blame guns alone. Most American cities are in poverty. That's the more important problem. When people don't have legitimate means to seek prosperity, it becomes tempting to use illegitimate means.

[G W North]

I laugh when people say Toronto has a higher crime rate than "x" American city. They obviously have done no research, and are just saying this. When pressed for their sources, they never respond and attempt to change the subject.

[Allan]

Eliminating guns would be impossible in the US. First we must rid the streets of drugs & gangs. Most of the crimes involving guns in the US are because of drugs, gangs, etc. The high poverty rate in many US cities also contributes to the problem.

[G W North]

The crimes may be because of drugs, gangs, etc., but the seriousness of the crimes is largely because of the abundance of guns.

[Allan]

That may be partially true. After all, guns are much less common in other countries. However, this is one of those issues that can not be blamed fully on any one factor.

[Wendell FOX]

monsoon - can you give me a definite link to show that? I find it rather hard to believe that Canada has a higher average crime rate than the US.

It's not surprising to see the typical Ryerson attitude and blame on the US in this article, and I think gun smuggling from over the US is part of the problem, but ultimately no matter how much you keep assault weapons away, guns still have the capability to kill in individual murders. What's really the cause is mainstream North American culture that depicts violence in a relaxed way.

[Noble Drew]

wow two murders in ONE weekend? thats Horribibble...

[satalac]

I think the comment you made is probably one of the most debatable topics in American history.

Just so everyone is clear, I believe the debate is about the founding fathers meant in the second amendment.  Personally, as I mentioned early in this thread, I have no problem with certain types of guns.

But the debate itself, what that little ',' means.  Does it mean, right to bare arms as part of a milita... or right to bear arms AND have a militia.

But I'm not in favor of banning weapons for private citizens all together.  I am, however, in favor of considerably reducing the number of handguns.  I believe their overall effect is negative.  Rifles and shotguns accomplish the overall effect of allowing for personal, home based protection, as well as ensuring that the average citizen is armed, if they choose to be.  However, it greatly decreases the concealability of the average weapon, which although I don't think would produce immedate results in terms of reducing crimes, would eventually.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

rifles and shotguns should not be used in home protection. most rifles will penetrate through walls and are very difficult to use in a close quarters area (unless you have an m-4 and i doubt you'd be for that if you're not for handguns). shotguns are a bit better, but the wide blast radius can still cause problems. you can buy slugs, but you still have the probability of penetration of walls. handguns on the other hand are perfect for close quarters and can be had in smaller calibers and/or frangible ammunition. guns do not kill people. the fear that society lives in kills people. if you haven't already, i suggest seeing bowling for columbine. that movie does an excellent job of talking about this. i do support gun control, but handguns should not be banned altogether.

[BrandonTO416]

Everytime the gun debate comes up, I always share my viewpoint that if certain types of guns aren't mass manufactured, they don't even have the possibility of getting to the black market and in criminal's hands to begin with.

Gun control, when done right, does help out. Is it a solution? No. Is it a small part of an overall effort to keep crime low? Yes.

Fighting poverty and emphasizing education are two factors that are also very important to keeping crime as low as possible.