Casino in Downtown Grand Rapids?

[GRDadof3]

Not necessarily for the 19 acre city-owned land, but generally speaking. Also, please leave your comments backing your position. I don't know if we did this poll before, even though we've discussed this before.

[GaryP]

I know that I put the idea out there, but I voted maybe. It really depends on the individual project. I'd rather not have one, but if it was the price we had to pay to get a world-class project built downtown I'd be in favor.

[Rizzo]

Too much of anything is bad, do we have casinos in downtown GR? I know the answer. If someone can provide me the FACTS of what casinos can do for a city, bad and good so that I may make an educated decision. If all is satisfactory to me then I say yes. I fear that people will jump into this because they think it is the solution to all of our problems. I guess I can say this about a casino keep your friends close, but your enemies closer. I'd rather see people come downtown for their fun, then out in the southern suburbs.

[dbrok]

I think that as long as the casino is kept up well and has other types of entertainment in the building such as restaurants, maybe a theatre or stage, salon/spa, it would be okay. I've been to the Potowatami Bingo and Casino in Milwaukee, just west of downtown, that's been there for a number of years. It's still in excellent condition, has highly rated restaurants run by well-known chefs and I've never felt unsafe there. Apparently things are going so well for the casino, that the city is talking about moving it to the Bradley Center, where the Milwaukee Bucks of the NBA play, right in the heart of downtown.

Even if a casino didn't appear in downtown GR, it would be nice to have some large entertainment place like Dave & Busters.

[grcitydog]

Any moral arguments about gambling aside, if a casino is going to come to West Michigan, then I would rather see it in a downtown, urban area where it could work with an entertainment district rather than 20 miles away and compete with downtown. Also, the sprawl that a casino would generate outside the city would instead be more infill in the downtown area. This would, of course, asume that this would be a world-class establishment.

[snoogit]

I'm going nay, only because I don't see much long term benefit to a casino.

[blindside]

I voted no because I believe that casinos are not worth the problems they cause in people's lives. I guess I could be labeled a typical Western Michigan conservative. In a place like Detroit a casino might be worth it for its tax revenues, but our downtown area is healthy enough that we don't need to pursue this. Not to mention casinos have really gross architecture that would not fit in with the buildings we have downtown.

[GR8scott]

I said maybe, although I like to go to the casinos once in a while, I think that they are building too many. In that case if there is not a casino here and they are everywhere else in the state in 10 years, GR may loose out. Michigan could start to be more well known for tourism and a casino in downtown GR would help a lot. I know there was mention of a dt casino a few years ago as well as dt muskegon, battle creek, and flint and det metro airpot area and slots at horse tracks, and I think they are building one in new buffalo near the Indiana border. So were almost at the point where we will be a gambling destination like vegas or atlantic city. So maybe GR should join in on the fun?

[d59]

Like them or not, casinos are here to stay. If a very nice one could be built downtown, it would give people another form of entertainment to enjoy here. I went to the Soaring Eagle once and the people that were there really seemed to be into it. I didn't see the point myself, but many people love it. I know several people that never traveled to Detroit until the casinos were built. Personally, I think all casinos should stay in Las Vegas!

[hood]

Very simple, yes I think a casino is good for any downtown, I would love one in Lansing. The moral argument is questionable, people will always gamble the only difference is whether they have to drive to Mt. Pleasant or Detroit to do it. So why not have people throw away their life savings in your own city instead of to the indians. Gambling does cause problems, but they aren't acute, they don't affect the city the casino is in any more than the city that people come from the go to the casino.

[GRGridGirl]

IF a casino was willing to:

have a zero setback building

be pedestrain friendly

have clocks on the walls

have transparent windows so you would know what the outside world looked like

NOT have any buffets & or food courts

NOT require an extreme amount of space for parking

NOT have any nickel, dime, or quarter slots

have a high percentage of card game tables & a low percentage of slots

donate a percentage of the house to local beautification projects.....

I might consider the idea.

Time to play Texas Holdem.

-River Girl

[GRCentro]

IF a casino was willing to:

have clocks on the walls

have transparent windows so you would know what the outside world looked like

I might consider the idea.

Nice!

That's a good list Triple G. I would add to it that I might consider the idea if a casino was willing to donate a percentage to local low income social services.

Here's an interesting article I found specifically regarding urban casinos: The Urban Gamble

[RustTown]

I don't know much about downtown Grand Rapids, but on the issue of urban casinos in general, I think it should always be considered as part of an entertainment district if there is a proper fit for it in a downtown area. For me, a downtown is all about choices. Choices in entertainment, choices in restuarants, choices in lodging...

The problem with a downtown casino is that many cities have used them as a single draw, where they pretty much monopolize entertainment choices by including retail, theaters...and have little context to the neighorhood surrounding them.

With all of that said, casinos, IMO, are probably the worst type of entertainment development if you're hopping to add vibrancy to streets. They are like black holes in that they suck people in with their entertainment and amenities (a city within a city), and spit them out to get right in their cars and drive home. The one huge advantage is how well they pad a cities tax base. They shell out quite a bit in taxes.

As for any negative social issues they may produce, it's not more so than the bars and liquor stores that proliferate throughout city. In fact, they are probably better in that alcholism is a far greater social issue than gambling addicts. And, these addicts are probably illegally betting and gambling in the city otherwise, or driving somewhere where it is legal to get their fix. IMO, the good outweighs any negative effects quite a bit.

[d59]

I don't know much about downtown Grand Rapids, but on the issue of urban casinos in general, I think it should always be considered as part of an entertainment district if there is a proper fit for it in a downtown area. For me, a downtown is all about choices. Choices in entertainment, choices in restuarants, choices in lodging...

The problem with a downtown casino is that many cities have used them as a single draw, where they pretty much monopolize entertainment choices by including retail, theaters...and have little context to the neighorhood surrounding them.

With all of that said, casinos, IMO, are probably the worst type of entertainment development if you're hopping to add vibrancy to streets. They are like black holes in that they suck people in with their entertainment and amenities (a city within a city), and spit them out to get right in their cars and drive home. The one huge advantage is how well they pad a cities tax base. They shell out quite a bit in taxes.

As for any negative social issues they may produce, it's not more so than the bars and liquor stores that proliferate throughout city. In fact, they are probably better in that alcholism is a far greater social issue than gambling addicts. And, these addicts are probably illegally betting and gambling in the city otherwise, or driving somewhere where it is legal to get their fix. IMO, the good outweighs any negative effects quite a bit.

Well said, Lmichigan!

[JP9]

I think we should have a casino. Lots of cities have them. I say anything that would help put GR on par with some big cities is a good idea.

[GRDadof3]

Welcome JP9! I was against a casino previously, but you're right, many European and Middle Eastern cities have casinos. It's not just Vegas

I could go with Triple G's recommendations, plus maybe they could fund some school programs.

[Greedo]

It's not just Vegas in the US either. It's Detroit, Traverse City, Mt. Pleasent, the UP, Michigan City, Suburban Chicago and a dozen other cities in IN, IL, WI, MN.

Why would anyone travel to a Grand Rapids casino when people can already find a casino in their own backyard?

A GR casino would only suck disposable income from area residents, not bring more money to the area. It's a bad investment on so many levels.

[GRDadof3]

In keeping with what GaryP is saying, why have all these other places that people will go to for some gambling fun away from Grand Rapids, and not here? It should be available as another entertainment OPTION downtown, but certainly not a revitalization cure-all IMO. And I don't particularly want to become a Midwest casino hub either (like an Atlantic City or Reno).

It looks like this poll is coming down just about how the community would respond: evenly split.

[snoogit]

In keeping with what GaryP is saying, why have all these other places that people will go to for some gambling fun away from Grand Rapids, and not here? It should be available as another entertainment OPTION downtown, but certainly not a revitalization cure-all IMO. And I don't particularly want to become a Midwest casino hub either (like an Atlantic City or Reno).

It looks like this poll is coming down just about how the community would respond: evenly split.

If you count the maybes as yes, the vote would win.

I think a casino would definately work on the Riverfront project. With the Gentlemen's club going in across the street, the public would be more willing to accept it. Since it seems the two go hand in hand.

[Rizzo]

Oh yah and some folks forgot to mention the power of The Grand Rapids Chamber of Commerce.

[joeDowntown]

I agree GRcitydog. Better to have one in the heart of downtown than just a gas guzzlin' drive away in Allegan. Plus, if designed and maintained right it would add more hotels to the city, bring in more conventions (entertainment is a key factor in getting a good casino) and be a great anchor of any entertainment district.

I would love to see a good Urban casino done right. Not like the big D, but done right. Modern, upscale and not built just to suck the retirement out of the grey hairs...

Joe

Any moral arguments about gambling aside, if a casino is going to come to West Michigan, then I would rather see it in a downtown, urban area where it could work with an entertainment district rather than 20 miles away and compete with downtown. Also, the sprawl that a casino would generate outside the city would instead be more infill in the downtown area. This would, of course, asume that this would be a world-class establishment.

[egrguy]

i voted for a casino, for not what it really adds to the city but we it does to keep gr dollars in local. gr metro residents have many options for gambling other then the city itself.

i also think it adds a viable entertainment option to downtown that will bring suburbia downtown, unlike a movie theate for example.

nonetheless, a casino employes 1000 people? that in itself would add to the city's tax base.

[Sunlover38]

I didn't know there was a former Indian reservation in downtown GR. Isn't that a pre-req for a casino? That aside, I personally think casinos are seedy places for the most part. Ever been to Trappers Alley in Detroit. (Greektown casino)? Wear a gas mask b/c the place is thick w/ cigarette smoke while the addicted zombies chain smoke and dump their cash into the slots . . . .having been to the "higher class" casinos in Vegas (Bellagio, Venetian, etc.) it is possible to have a clean somewhat classy casino that also offers other entertainment. Could GR pull off a Belagio? Maybe. I guess it all boils down to what the people want. I admit I enjoy an occasional blackjack game even though I am not good at it but I personally don't like to give my money away to casinos so I am not much of a gambler . . .

As far as proceeds being donated . . good luck with that one . . .how much money does the state lottery take in that is supposed to benefit the schools? Doesn't seem like GR Public is benefiting too much from all that $$ . . .

Guess I'm on the fence on this one.

[Rizzo]

I think what we keep forgetting is that some Native American casinos are largly disenfrachising the reservations that own them. If these "joints" are so profitable, why are Native Americans the poorest among us? Maybe its because the governing structure on the reservations, or is it the corrupted folks running the casino show? And with this Abramoff scandal with the eyebrow raising connection to ?Pete Hoekstra?, casino owners and other high-power Republicans, I say to you that you have one hell of a fight to get one here. Even if GR is culturally biased to not gambiling, you still have to fight through the powerhouse players. But, then again, all a reservation has to do is get owned landed into trust, they're set, its only a matter of time for them. When grandma goes to the casinos I'd rather she have a short drive from Wyoming to waste her money for the "kicks." As my mema always says, "I'm gonna play with the Indians." Shes 1/2 Hopewell and Potawatomi, its ok.

[GRDadof3]

I would have to disagree with that Rizzo, at least in my experience. The reservations near Sault Ste Marie and Mt Pleasant have reaped many rewards from the casinos. I see a lot of new housing (albeit low income), health clinics, community centers, police and fire stations, schools, etc.. Seems like I saw a documentary a couple of years ago called "Return of the Buffalo" regarding how the Indian tribes see this as their way to redeem partially what they lost (by taking money from the rest of us). More power to em.