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Casino in Downtown Grand Rapids?

GRDadof3

By GRDadof3
in Grand Rapids

Should Grand Rapids consider promoting a casino downtown  

94 members have voted

  1. 1. Should downtown GR have a casino?

    • Yes, bring it on!
      35
    • No, not the right direction for downtown
      47
    • Maybe, depending on location
      12

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Rizzo City

Rizzo

Posted
Posted

I can agree on your experience. I was just entertained by some documentary on PBS that said there was little evidence that most tribes actually benefited from the rackets. I'd like to see more evidence, but after going to Pow Wow, and getting into talk with some folks, it ain't what its all cracked up to be. Infact thats what "they" want you to think (that by taking the money from the populous that they are benefiting, thats how it works, you feel like your giving charity.) Well thats what they said, wether it is true or not, it seems iffy to me. A casino is kind of like steroids for downtown. They work for the meantime, but let it go 5 or so years and you'll see things shrink, hair loss, you get the point ;-).....

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GRDadof3 Ecumenopolis

GRDadof3

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I think I saw "Return of the Buffalo" on PBS too :lol: It probably depends on how adept the tribe is at setting up the business structure, and what portion of revenue goes into local infrastructure.

We may have to go back to the drawing board on Market/Wealthy. If it was 60 - 70% pro-casino, that would be different.

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Nitro Burg

Nitro

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I can agree on your experience. I was just entertained by some documentary on PBS that said there was little evidence that most tribes actually benefited from the rackets. I'd like to see more evidence, but after going to Pow Wow, and getting into talk with some folks, it ain't what its all cracked up to be. Infact thats what "they" want you to think (that by taking the money from the populous that they are benefiting, thats how it works, you feel like your giving charity.)

Well, I can tell you this. I don't know what the current numbers are but in the past every member of the tribe that owns Soaring Eagle in Mt. Pleasant gets a check for close to or just over $100k every year. That's not too shabby if you ask me.

I have no problem with native american owned casinos. If they would like to put one up on their reservations for people to come enjoy then so be it. They are sovereign nations after all, we really can't stop them. What I do have a problem with is the native american tribes that claim that every piece of land that a native american ever farted on is fair game for a casino........i.e. Wayland. That is a little irritating.

I lived in Detroit when the casino issue came up for vote. I voted for it....I really wish I hadn't. There is a lot of unsaid evils that go along with casinos. They generally attract the wrong crowd and are more of a drain on the local resources then a help. The casino's were praised as the saviors of downtown Detroit, well guess what it didn't happen.

Don't get me wrong, I enjoy going to a casino now and then. Nitro's hit a few good nights on the craps tables. I'd just rather go to vegas to find them, they don't need to come to me.

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Rizzo City

Rizzo

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^Yah, it was only a matter of time. Once they have the owned property into trust, they can basicly do whatever they choose.

I think what we have to realise also is that just like any type of product or service, the market can be over saturated. Is Michigan saturated with casino establishments? Isn't a casino just an artificial way to improve the economic market of a community, theres really no substance to it? So theres no real solid foundation or a base for a sustaining environment? I should have just voted no, I seem to have dug deeper into a complex web of information that seems to be onesided.

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Sunlover38 Whistle-Stop

Sunlover38

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Casinos are trash development. However, I would rather see a decent one downtown than some crappy trash infested pole barn out in Wayland. If a casino kills what has happened downtown over the last decade or so, I am going to be pretty pissed.

Think about it . . .how is the clientele at a "trash infested pole barn in Wayland" going to "ruin" what is going on downtown . . . apples to oranges if you ask me . . .

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houseofdon Whistle-Stop

houseofdon

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Think about it . . .how is the clientele at a "trash infested pole barn in Wayland" going to "ruin" what is going on downtown . . . apples to oranges if you ask me . . .

Wow, you're way off! The issue here is that the casino will leech dollars that would otherwise be spent on downtown enterprises. Also keep in mind that the Gun Lake's proposal is NOT simply a casino, but a full conference facility, restaurants, concert venues, shopping, etc. Now, imagine you're going to go out on the town on the weekend. Dinner, drinks, maybe a concert. You can go either downtown, or drive 25 minutes to a casino. Many people will choose the casino.

Now, let's expand on this. Suppose Company X is looking to hold their big annual conference somewhere in W. Mich. Are they going to go to use DeVos, or the tribal facility that offers the lure of a casino and much lower rates because they don't pay taxes? Many people will choose the casino. Think about the money lost!! These are thousands of people a year NOT staying in downtown hotels, NOT eating at downtown restaurants, NOT drinking at downtown bars, and NOT buying tickets to downtown concerts. We're talking about tens of millions of dollars being taken out of GR's economic pool.

Make no mistake about it, a casino in Wayland would absolutely trash the downtown progress of both GR and Kalamazoo.

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Rizzo City

Rizzo

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Most people don't go downtown anyway, plain and simple... How many of the people that would attend this casino daily, would have gone downtown? I hardly think there would have been a sizeable portion of this market that would go downtown if the Casino wasn't built. For some reason, I still vote no on this development, but I think the "stealing" of ecnomic oppertunity is somewhat over blown. I will say it isnt if someone can provide me of real hard numbers or projections that say this casino will hurt our downtown. I think the real community that will hurt in this is Wayland, or acually the surrounding suburbs of GR, not GR or Kalamazoo. Is my point valid?

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twoshort Town

twoshort

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Most people don't go downtown anyway, plain and simple... How many of the people that would attend this casino daily, would have gone downtown? I hardly think there would have been a sizeable portion of this market that would go downtown if the Casino wasn't built. For some reason, I still vote no on this development, but I think the "stealing" of ecnomic oppertunity is somewhat over blown. I will say it isnt if someone can provide me of real hard numbers or projections that say this casino will hurt our downtown. I think the real community that will hurt in this is Wayland, or acually the surrounding suburbs of GR, not GR or Kalamazoo. Is my point valid?

I think the meat of houseofdon's post is in the fact that Waylands casino will take away from downtown GR's conference traffic and some entertainment traffic. Both of which are probably true. Of the conferences/quarterly meetings i've been to, the one at Soaring Eagle was hands down the best one yet and you can bet the company heard those comments and would go back. If this particular company were looking for a western michigan place to hold a meeting and there was a comparable casino around.. i'm guessing they'd go there.

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GRDadof3 Ecumenopolis

GRDadof3

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I can agree with that. Trade shows and conferences that I have been to seem to be more of an excuse to go to another city/area and party. It usually involves salespeople/buyers/reps who are generally more of the sociable persuasion, and they look more forward to going out afterward then sitting in on another "Here's how to improve the bottom line or increase sales" discussion :sick: A casino is definitely part of that package.

Why don't the GR and Kzoo Chambers get together and do an economic impact study of the Wayland casino? If they think it will hurt business in the downtowns, they may want some hard facts to back that up and push for a casino in GR and Kzoo. Maybe they've already done this :dontknow:

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Rizzo City

Rizzo

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They are designed that way. The reason for being "bunker'd" is that it prohibits the mind from realising reality exists. You are more isolated from the outside world and this is supposed to help encourage you to gamble more. Its the same philosphy that is used with nickle and dime slots, put the ones that pay out the most and more frequently in the front where there is more foot traffic. The idea behind that is so it can attract more of your impulse gamblers.

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