Casino in Downtown Grand Rapids?

[dbrok]

Does a casino actually raise crime though? Myth or general perception says yes. These facts say otherwise (from the American Gaming Association, so take with a grain of salt):

- Research conducted by the National Opinion Research Center (NORC) at the University of Chicago for the federal National Gambling Impact Study Commission (NGISC) found that

[torgo]

Thinking about this, I am not sure about the casino-crime connection either. I've been doing some research on Wal-mart for work, and much of the crime that Wal-mart "attracts" merely happens in a Wal-mart parking lot. If there was no Wal-mart, the crime may have simply occurred somewhere else. (BTW I hate Wal-mart, just so ya know ) I did not find much that conclusively indicated that Wal-mart was a haven for criminals. But that is

I do think that crime would rise with a casino, but crime would probably rise with the addition of any major tourist destination, especially one that attracts such an...um...let's say "interesting" crowd. If a huge mall were built downtown, shoplifting would probably increase, too.

I still don't think a casino necessarily would be a good thing, but the assumption that casinos attract crime needs to be challenged a little bit. Anyways that's my $0.02 worth.

[eyestosee]

Not necessarily for the 19 acre city-owned land, but generally speaking. Also, please leave your comments backing your position. I don't know if we did this poll before, even though we've discussed this before.

It is a bad idea, until the casinos are established just north of Wayland. When we hear the great sucking sound from the south, politics will make for strange bedfellows. Recall what happened in Detroit, all pastors, nonprofit organizations, and racetrack owners opposed the casinos. They voted it down easily. <Sucking sound from Windsor> COURSE REVERSED! The very next year the strange collaborative united to have casinos in Detroit. I hope we can have some foresight.

[snoogit]

It is a bad idea, until the casinos are established just north of Wayland. When we hear the great sucking sound from the south, politics will make for strange bedfellows. Recall what happened in Detroit, all pastors, nonprofit organizations, and racetrack owners opposed the casinos. They voted it down easily. <Sucking sound from Windsor> COURSE REVERSED! The very next year the strange collaborative united to have casinos in Detroit. I hope we can have some foresight.

Ha, I can't imagine that happening here, assuming the casino is even built (Was Jack Abromoff involved? ) There is just too much opposition on this side of the state.

But the idea of Wayland sucking on GR like a newborn is quite the funny image though

[eyestosee]

It's not just Vegas in the US either. It's Detroit, Traverse City, Mt. Pleasent, the UP, Michigan City, Suburban Chicago and a dozen other cities in IN, IL, WI, MN.

Why would anyone travel to a Grand Rapids casino when people can already find a casino in their own backyard?

A GR casino would only suck disposable income from area residents, not bring more money to the area. It's a bad investment on so many levels.

It is my contention, the reason we need casinos is that they are in these other communities. Disposable income from our residents are being spent at these far away casinos. For every disposable dollar that is spent on the casino, perhaps, the casino tax revenues and indirect revenue derivatives will supercede it. May be a interesting study.

[dbrok]

It is my contention, the reason we need casinos is that they are in these other communities. Disposable income from our residents are being spent at these far away casinos. For every disposable dollar that is spent on the casino, perhaps, the casino tax revenues and indirect revenue derivatives will supercede it. May be a interesting study.

Good point, I hadn't thought of that before. If people are going to spend money gambling anyway, why not let them do it in your own community? Maybe the money collected by the city from the increased tax base the casino creates could help their budget issue.

[Rizzo]

^^Yah so intersting - in fact houseofdon posted the website for a firm which studied the matter...

[snoogit]

It is my contention, the reason we need casinos is that they are in these other communities. Disposable income from our residents are being spent at these far away casinos. For every disposable dollar that is spent on the casino, perhaps, the casino tax revenues and indirect revenue derivatives will supercede it. May be a interesting study.

Wayland is still in Kent County correct? If so, the county taxes collected from Wayland will more then likely be spent in GR anyway. I'm not sure of Wayland's tax codes, but I dont think they have an official city government, so the only taxes collected would be township and county taxes.

[dbrok]

^^Yah so intersting - in fact houseofdon posted the website for a firm which studied the matter...

I see that now .

The report does state that if the casino is built in Wayland, it will hurt Kent County and generate $91m. But it wouldn't hurt Kent County if it were built here. Put the casino in the City of Grand Rapids and you suddenly have a huge gain in tax revenue. Where else is the city going to get $8m this year? Heartwell talked about raising taxes and few people want that. So we better find some alternatives and looking into this could be one.

[Rizzo]

^^Wayland isn't in Kent county. I didn't mean to come off as a smart ass.. I ment the comment for eyestosee...

[eyestosee]

I see that now .

The report does state that if the casino is built in Wayland, it will hurt Kent County and generate $91m. But it wouldn't hurt Kent County if it were built here. Put the casino in the City of Grand Rapids and you suddenly have a huge gain in tax revenue. Where else is the city going to get $8m this year? Heartwell talked about raising taxes and few people want that. So we better find some alternatives and looking into this could be one.

I see, thanks Rizzo. Nonetheless, the casino as an alternative may be a bit much for this area. I am for a casino in downtown GR, howbeit, we must find a greater hook to promote it. We only need a majority. Perhaps the sound of property value dwindling if casinos are not here. The fear of loss is the greater motivator, not increase of tax revenues. My 2 cents. What do you all think?

[houseofdon]

Yes, Wayland/Gun Lake is in Allegan County, so Kent won't see any gains.

And even though a downtown GR casino certainly does make for some interesting conversation and possibilities to rebuild our downtown, it's not the issue at hand. A downtown casino is not a reality. However, the Gun Lake proposal is a possible reality, and a scary one at that...especially for all of us who have invested in, hoped for, and been involved in the revitalization of our amazing downtown.

Honestly, this casino issue is one of my passions. If you guys have got any specific questions, I'll do my best to answer them.

[GRguy]

I can add some personal experience. I have traveled with my Dad and brother to Mt. Pleasant and Manistee to play at the casinos. I drove thru the downtowns of each simply to see them, but stayed in tha casino for fun. I have also stayed (motel) in Manistee because of the casino and would not have been there with out it. So, in one sense, I added to the local community, but not to the downtown.

[MJLO]

I'm sure it's all been said before, but I don't see how casino's add to the health of a downtown area? Vegas is different but it is an entertainment mecca. People go there for so much more than gambling. Casino's are designed to draw people in and keep them there. I can see alot of people coming to a casino here, but staying there all day and then leaving without any $ to spend in the rest of the town. The only thing they are good for, in terms of health of a city, is tax revenue.

[debo2040]

yes sure lets and some more pawnshops and some crack dens too

yes sure lets and some more pawnshops and some crack dens too

I'm kidding but if it wasn't downtown i guess it could work at some point service jobs are all the working class is going to have so we're gonig to have to caisnos at some point in the near future.