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Illegal Immigration


ShowMeKC

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Just to point this out to people who are on whichever side..My sociology professor made a good point. This country is the only one in the world that has accomplished dealing with diversity. Yes, we have a long way to go.. but look at each and every city in the U.S... then take a look at a European, African, or Asian city. We mix race, fashion, religion, culture better than anyplace else on this planet. Once again, we have a long way to go before the topic isnt even existant anymore and we truly put aside state of mind that our personal heritage is better than the next guys... but we've come a long way.. and we'll find a way to deal with this

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I live in Tucson, and the interest here is less in the illegals in the workforce, and more in getting the coyotes and their migrant followers off the land and roads. They're absolutely wreaking havoc. This season was relatively quiet, but there are articles montly about car chases where innocent people are killed, dead bodies found in the wilderness, and the occassional feature about the pissed-off borderland rancher who's just about lost it. These don't seem to disseminate into the national media, but it's a very real issue.

It's not quite as simple as many would realize either. A lot of people to the north just say "fortify the border." They've already done that in California, and it just pushed everyone into Arizona. New Mexico will be next, and that's a much more deadly trek. No matter what you do, the migrant population will find a way to get back in. To quote the AZ governor: "Show me an 11' wall and I'll show you a 12' foot ladder."

The "guest worker program" also doesn't work though, as it basically legalizes a second class citizen status. We have that now, with illegal immigrants being paid much less and not having the same freedoms and protections as citizens, but the government does not legally recognize it. It's been a sort of "see no evil, hear no evil" show for quite a while, with the feds eagerly participating as it pumps in money to the economy, as well as to their wealthy constituents (i.e. - campaign financiers).

So why not just tighten the restrictions on immigration and enforce the border? If we could theoretically expel all illegal immigrants and keep those who wanted to come in from doing so, it would throw the economy completely off with rapid inflation. Jobs now done for $2 or $3 per hour would now be subject to things like OSHA, the minimum wage and other general labor standards. Americans complain enough about gas going up 25%, what do you think would happen if food went up 50%?

We certainly can't have undocumented individuals wandering into this country, but we also can't just outright stop it, or simply ignore the problem. The increased enforcement and lapse of tolerance has actually caused more problems in the past few years. The status quo is, unfortunately, no longer an option.

I don't claim to have an answer to this, but I'm just trying to relay that I have yet to hear any sort of realistic solution, and I wonder if one exists.

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My only concern is that immigrants are documented and pay taxes. The ways that seem good to accomplish this are a guest worker program (of course making guest workers pay taxes), making it a felony to employ illegals and forcing companies to pay "guest workers" competetive wages, at least minimum wage. I think that would do a number of things, it would allow the well-intentioned illegals to become documented and stay, and eventually gain their citizenship (after 7 years like everyone else), it would generate the appropriate tax dollars to fill the gap in school and healthcare funding, and it would even the playing field for workers, there would be no more ridiculously low wages for immigrants. Also another thing, the US must make English our official language, we should not offer government documents or services in any language other than English and companies should not be forced to make accomodations for non English speaking people either.

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Giving amnesty to the illegals would simply open up the floodgates for illegals to come into this country. And along with that the odd terrorist that decides to bring in some nukes, chemical weapons, etc. The limits are there for a good reason and opening the door to let a flood of low skilled labor into this country seems to be a very bad idea considering that we have millions of perfectly healthy and able bodied people living on welfare and food stamps. There are better ways to solve the labor problem, if it exists.

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we've got millions of people here and we have no clue who they are or what their intentions are.. i think terrorism is too late to try and prevent. God knows how many of these illegals are not here for work and ARE here to terrorize.

With the comment of food going up 50%... maybe it'll make Americans realize that we need not buy junk food... and we'll focus on the basics and lose some weight for once

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I look at it like this - everyone who is not native to this country or came over here without having to go through proper clearance and with approved economic impact planning, and who don't speak the native language should be sent back.

So, except for those Native Americans who still remember their own language, and those immigrants in teh last 50 years who learned a native american language, all get the heck out.

Don't forget, 90% of you guys are here beacuse of people just up and moving to this country without any immigration control, and I doubt very many of you are speaking a language other than what the immigrants brought over.

I'm really, really sick and tired of that arguement. My ancestors came here legally and paid their taxes and learned the language. If someone is willing to do all that then they are more than elcome here as far as I'm concerned, until then anyone who is here illegally can stay, but lets block them from working, schools, healthcare and anything else that costs us money, since they don't want to pay taxes. Thats all I want them to do, become documented and pay taxes. That is perfectly reasonable, so shut-up with the studid native american arguement, it makes no sense whatsoever.

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until then anyone who is here illegally can stay, but lets block them from working, schools, healthcare and anything else that costs us money, since they don't want to pay taxes.

Why would they stay if there is nowhere to work? Unless they're not here to work and they came here illegally to be gangsters and deal drugs and guns and shakedown businesses and individuals. This is a big problem in California. There are more aliens than jobs, so this is the result.

The Native American argument doesn't resonate with me at all. Did anyone mention the blacks, whose ancestors were brought here against their will? :whistling: Lets not make this into something its not.

colin is right about the anarchy down there being ignored by the mainstream media, but its plain to see with all this "Immigrant Rights" bullsh!t (let's call it what it is), these outlets are trying to appeal to the Latino audience and bump up the ratings and sell papers. Most people are not cool with amnesty, the press coverage would indicate differently.

If we shut off the economic magnet... they will return to their homeland. No wall, no roundup. Its that simple.

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You can justify all you want why these new immigrants don't belong or shouldn't be allowed to stay, but in fact all you are doing is trying to justify why you don't want these people in your country.

Exactly, MY country. And the comparison between these immigrants and immigrants in the past is that now we live in a much more civilized world, we have a government that provides numerous, very expensive services to it's people. If a large group of people use these services and doesen't pay into te system through taxes, they are causing a severe problem that is putting a strain on taxpayers and even more on the legal residents who receive benifits from the goverment's services.

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Ah how soon we forget. The whole tax thing didn't really come up until the last several decades. Most of the people who came to this country came in long before there were taxes, and long before there were many controls on immigration. Theoretically they went through Ellis Island, bu in fact in most cases immigrants came in through other cities, or never went through immigration. Immigrant labor was desparately needed to build the country. As far as English goes, that was brought over, too. In fact French was spoken here in many cases before English took over - but more English speaking people came over, so that is what dominated.

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English dominated here because most of the east coast of North America was under British rule and the British intended to establish a colony here with British subjects living in NA. This is different from the Spanish and French that simply saw North America as a place to be exploited where people came to make their riches with the idea they would return to Europe. It's this difference in the way that Europe dominated the rest of the world that made english the most spoken language in the world.

Back to the subject at hand. Most of the big wave of immigrants to this country occured when the potato blight invade Europe causing widespread famine and the starving people came here in wave after wave to escape the dispair that was Northern Europe at the time. All of these people came through defined ports of entry into the USA as immigrant ships only docked in certain places. Thus it is incorrect to say that most immigrants came here without being controlled by immigration. It was a very expensive endeavor to book passage on a ship and the shipping lines had to pay fees to the USA in order to bring people here. The ports of entry were controlled to make sure these payments occured.

Immigration laws are on the book for a good reason. It keeps other countries from dumping their problems on our society. The problem with Mexico is that while it is a modern country, with huge natural resources and plenty of industrial investment dollars, very few people of their society actually benefit from it. Until recently, only one political party had control over the entire political system there and because of that it is corrupt and full of cronyism. Therefore, there is fabulous wealth in Mexico, but it is concentrated in a few greedy hands and the vast majority of people there live in close to poverty situations. There is almost no middle class in Mexico relative to that found in the USA.

So the poor people from Mexico come to the USA to work and they do so at substantially lower rates than Americans would to do the same job. Is this good for our society? I honestly don't know. I don't like the idea that corruption and cronyism in Mexico survives at the cost of American's losing jobs to illegal immigrants. If we change the laws to let in anyone from Mexico that wants to come, when do we stop it? I don't think the USA can absorb 100,000,000 people from there.

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As the son of legal immigrants I resent the almost ubiquitous assumption in the media that immigrants constitute this monolithic force supporting liberalization of immigration enforcement and policies.

My views:

1. Any immigration policy must start with the principle that citizenship is a privilege, not a right, and not everyone is entitled to it.

2. There must be a cap on total immigrants each year admitted.

2. Any immigration policy must not kowtow to any one particular ethnic group. It must relay the message that every ethnic group will be treated similarly under clearly-defined guidelines.

3. Those guidelines must accomodate demands of schools, employers, ethnic diversity, and humanity. So education visas and work visas should be preserved. Quotas may be necessary to prevent too many of any particular group dominating the numbers to the exclusion of others. On the humanitarian end, that's the refugee accomodation. I am not to knowledgable about how many folks apply and are rejected and the standards. Hopefully they've been consistent. They need to be.

4. Whatever laws exist, must be enforced. Whoever applies must be checked thoroughly. Retain the waiting period (which, for my parents, was five years after they became eligible).

How might this affect the current controversy? The solution should recognize and acknowledge the high work ethic that most Mexican illegals provide. But it should punish their circumvention and violation of American laws. They can protest all they want about the injustice from being called criminals . . . but look at the definition of what a criminal is, and how that relates to obedience of the law. Part of the immigration process, imo, is the aspect of the aspiring citizens demonstrating how strongly they wish to submit themselves to the jurisdiction and protection of our laws. It's not a one-way street where you just take the protection but forego the enforcement. No one is entitled to that privilege, much less illegal immigrants.

So maybe increase the number of work visas. Maybe increase the overall quota number of Mexicans. Definitely impose fines for time here violating American immigration laws. Put them in the back of the line after those who did everything right. No special treatment for those who came here illegally. Preference should reward those who demonstrate their thirst for freedom by running the laps without cutting the corners. Most importantly, tighten the borders, and give global notice of higher penalties, lesser tolerance for attempting to circumvent the new immigration laws. And any accomodation for Mexicans should be coupled with diplomatic reciprocity from Mexico. Liberalized trade, stricter drug enforcement from their end, maybe the elimination or liberalization of the real estate ownership laws that discriminate against foreigners, particularly Americans. Something to show reciprocal appreciation for our accomodation.

Bottom line, the message needs to be sent that it's better to follow the law than circumvent it. IMO, the protests are a slap in the face of my parents, b/c they want the same rights my parents have received, without going through the same process. That really strikes a harmful blow at the foundation of the institution of immigration.

And for the record, those who burn the Mexican flag in their protests, or demand English-only, don't speak for me. English first is fine, and helps people like my parents out, because it compels them to become bilingual, and a greater potential asset and contributor to America and the globe than English-only speakers. At least employment-wise. But that might be another story.

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My only concern is that immigrants are documented and pay taxes. The ways that seem good to accomplish this are a guest worker program (of course making guest workers pay taxes), making it a felony to employ illegals and forcing companies to pay "guest workers" competetive wages, at least minimum wage. I think that would do a number of things, it would allow the well-intentioned illegals to become documented and stay, and eventually gain their citizenship (after 7 years like everyone else), it would generate the appropriate tax dollars to fill the gap in school and healthcare funding, and it would even the playing field for workers, there would be no more ridiculously low wages for immigrants. Also another thing, the US must make English our official language, we should not offer government documents or services in any language other than English and companies should not be forced to make accomodations for non English speaking people either.

I don't know why, but I have an issue against making English our "official" language. I agree in principle, I guess I think it needs to be more of a grassroots thing. My issue is more about signs that are only foreign. Everything should have English on it, but leave it up to the the people whether or not they want to do something more. For heaven's sake, we want foreigners to visit, we want their money. We have to have stuff in Chinese, Spanish, and French to accomodate them. Just make sure that everyone also includes English. Within our borders, we have a right to be secure in knowing what every public sign says. This does not and should not intrude on private conversations and messages, though. Give every citizen the right to communicate in whatever language they want. Just don't let their inability to understand English to be a recognized excuse. It's their burden to understand it.

That may sound like talking out of two sides of my mouth, but in my head, it's pretty consistent. Government and public signs = English. Us in private = anything. And it's our obligation to understand what the government and public says. Leave it to the government and public whether other languages are added to the signs, but whatever is in French, or Arabic, or Greek, must also be in English somewhere. When it comes to private conversations, that's where it's the burden of government to employ a diverse group of people, who can understand and interpret what's said and done.

I definitely don't think foreign-only public signs are appropriate. And I don't believe in any English-only policy (that would be absurd in competing globally).

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I don't know why, but I have an issue against making English our "official" language.

...

I definitely don't think foreign-only public signs are appropriate. And I don't believe in any English-only policy (that would be absurd in competing globally).

I dunno about that. English is the language that is most ubiquitous around the world. It may not have as many people speaking it as Manderin Chinese (How many people in India speak English, anyways?), but go to any European country and you'll have a much easier time speaking only English than only Chinese. The 2nd language most common in the US is Spanish, which really isn't too big in the developed world. I'd like to see English as our "official" language. It's not like I'm saying kids shouldn't be taught how to speak Chinese, Spanish, Japanese, Farsi, etc. I think the foreign language education system in this country isn't that great... Isn't French France's official language? A lot of people there seem to have picked up English...

We should have English as the "official" language. Without a common language, it's tough to have a single culture. When you lose your culture, you lose your nation. Look at Canada, even. The French-speaking Province of Quebec is very modern, but has a vastly different culture than the English speaking West.... to the point where there has been a very strong separatist movement. The area of this country that has historically posessed a vastly different culture (the South) actually did succeed from the union. I'm not saying that the sky is falling as I think the union is the strongest its ever been; but that's mostly (in my opinion) because of shared wealth, and the mostly homogonized (American-English speaking, decrease in use of regional dialects/accents with the notable exception of Ebonics) culture that we live in today.

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"Opponents of moves to make English the official language of the United States frequently suspect that English-only advocates are motivated by more than political idealism. This suspicion is certainly justified by the historical record. For the past two centuries, proponents of official-English have sounded two separate themes, one rational and patriotic, the other emotional and racist. The Enlightenment belief that language and nation are inextricably intertwined, coupled with the chauvinist notion that English is a language particularly suited to democratically constituted societies, are convincing to many Americans who find discrimination on non-linguistic grounds thoroughly reprehensible (see Baron, 1990)."

"The English-only nativists who attacked the Germans used arguments similar to those heard nowadays against newer immigrants."

"The Germans were accused by other eighteenth-century Anglos of laziness, illiteracy, clannishness, a reluctance to assimilate, excessive fertility, and Catholicism. "

http://www.pbs.org/speak/seatosea/official...an/englishonly/

Sound familiar?

Perhaps we need to stop looking at it like we deserve to be here and it's all for us, and those imigrants are only here to steal from us.

Immigrants are not a plague. They are a resource. Learn to find ways to make them fit in society and work with it, instead of pitting society against them.

Thank you.

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"Opponents of moves to make English the official language of the United States frequently suspect that English-only advocates are motivated by more than political idealism. This suspicion is certainly justified by the historical record. For the past two centuries, proponents of official-English have sounded two separate themes, one rational and patriotic, the other emotional and racist. The Enlightenment belief that language and nation are inextricably intertwined, coupled with the chauvinist notion that English is a language particularly suited to democratically constituted societies, are convincing to many Americans who find discrimination on non-linguistic grounds thoroughly reprehensible (see Baron, 1990)."

"The English-only nativists who attacked the Germans used arguments similar to those heard nowadays against newer immigrants."

"The Germans were accused by other eighteenth-century Anglos of laziness, illiteracy, clannishness, a reluctance to assimilate, excessive fertility, and Catholicism. "

http://www.pbs.org/speak/seatosea/official...an/englishonly/

Sound familiar?

Yeah it does. You're not going to play that card and convince me. It's not like we're not letting immigrants into our country legally. We let immigrants from every country come in, in a controlled way. We used to have an unregulated stock market, look how that went.

I'm Libertarian, but within reason. Certain things have to have basic regulations. With America being such a rich country and Mexico (along with many other countries) having such a large number of poor people, we would see so many people flood into our country sans regulations the system that supports the poor already here would collapse. In considering how serious this problem would become keep in mind how easy it is to get here from almost anywhere in the world. The cost of a plane ticket and a passport is all you'd need. This isn't racism. The only reason why hispanics are the main topic of conversation when talking about illegals is that most of the illegals are hispanic.

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I am amused how the first thing people think about when it comes to illegal immigrants is the Mexicans.

What about Asians? What about Eastern Europeans? They caome over here, too. Sure they theoretically come in through gateways. But many come in and slip through. All you need is a student or work visa. And nowadays we are doing a much better job at it. The history books tell of Ellis Island, but the real stories, if you read many accounts of immigrants or have immigrant ancestors, is that they jumped ship, booked passage on feight ships, came in through other ports, or even just faked their way in. What is quite interesting is to listen to older immigrants who simply went to one of the immigration centers, and took whoever came in and didn't have someone to meet them back home. This is the real story of America, not protectionism.

English, or at least American English, is a dynamic language. That's WHY it is so perfect as an international language- it can quickly pick up other speech. How many times have you been to a west European city and saw all the signs in only one language? Why do peaople HAVE to speak English all the time? Are we so desperate to listen in to what everyone talks about that we need to know what they are saying?

I'm curious, are you confusing student/work visas with illegal immigration? Because they're different. Those with visas went through the process of seeking permission to be here, and were given such permission.

The vast majority of illegals, practically speaking because of proximity, are Mexicans. It's very difficult for someone to cross even between Cuba and Florida, much less the Pacific or Atlantic. Now cracking down on smuggling needs to be addressed, and that is not limited just to exploiting oppressed Mexicans, but also Africans, Cubans, Chinese, Russians, etc.

And we really need to apply economic pressure on the source nations. They need to address the conditions that cause their citizens to seek asylum or seek to leave.

Edit: But regardless of how few Asians or Europeans are here illegally, if they are here illegally, they must be subject to the same punishments as Mexicans. All illegals should be subject to the same standards, regardless of if they're Irish or Chinese or Mexican.

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Somewhere along the line, aren't we forgetting that the whole point to the United States of America is that it is a free country, one based on capitalism, which at it's heart requires new people to come in and to offer new ideas, to be open to anyone who wishes to persue their dreams?

All of the arguments about coming in legally, about who pays for what, those are all things that we have attempted to try and control and to bring the most benefit to the most pepole. Those things can be changed, and as a part of capitalism, MUST change. If it doesn't work the current way, then find a way to make it work. If you cut off people's access to dreams, then you are essentially cutting off the lifeblood of the US people and economy.

It's not free for everyone, and while it's the most open and welcoming nation in the world, that doesn't mean it bends over to everyone like a $10 ho in Amsterdam. No offense meant to those from Amsterdam. There have always been limitations, whether geographic or quotas. I mean, how far do you take the open door policy? Curbside pickup in remote parts of the world? Because there are inequities in terms of access for different ethnic groups. Asians and Africans must do more to get here than say a Mexican or Colombian. Without curbside pickup for the Libyan refugee, you're cutting off his access to his dream, and limiting the infusion of similarly situated people into American culture and society.

New blood is a must for America. No dispute there. That's why quotas exist for education, work visas, and perhaps those need to be revised. Also there are quotas for countries of origin. I don't agree with a closed door policy. But I don't think there should just be a standard-less process of immigration where everyone who wants to come gets to come. We are a nation of limited resources. We must accept that. That doesn't mean no one comes in. It means that there have to be standards fairly applied to provide access to a broad group of people that will contribute to America without becoming criminals.

I don't think that anyone disagrees with the notion you offered though that we'll find a way to "make it work." I think the worry is whether everyone will agree whether the solution "works" or not.

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I think its so funny how fast the race card got thrown in this. What part of illegal don't they understand? This isn't about immigrants coming in here legally its about the ones coming in this country and breaking our immigration laws. People are using the race card as a smoke screen to cover the fact that laws are being broken. What makes illegals think they have rights in a country they don't belong in? Also, this is a slap in the face to the ones that have waited years to become citizens legally. Hospitals have shut down due to illegals running them dry. They are thinning out a dry welfare system. No one wants to discuss this. They are sending children to schools and not paying income taxes for it. This isn't a racist subject but a economic and safety issue.

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I think race comes into suspicion because of who is shown as representing opponents of the protesters. They aren't exactly what you would want as your posterboy for any movement. Here in Tucson, many of them are a hair short of unrepentant, unapologetic klansmen. [edit: the media doesn't show an accurate portrayal of who opposes illegal immigration. Not everyone is as ignorant as the media in lumping legal and illegal immigration together into a single issue. This is about illegal immigration vs. legal immigration. And both sides need to be accurately shown. And the media, I think deliberately, is not showing both sides in order to influence impressionable viewers who don't do their own research into issues]. It's important to show that those shown on television opposing the protesters aren't representative of the majority of those who want to hold illegals accountable. Legals need to speak up more, but many of them are intimidated into silence. Which the media then assumes is agreement with illegals.

It's not just about sending a message. It's the message sent. This is a political campaign. Very shallow, superficial, and sound-bitey. The message needs to be sent that immigrants are essential but circumvention of immigration laws is an insult to legal immigration and needs to be punished appropriately.

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I think its so funny how fast the race card got thrown in this. What part of illegal don't they understand? This isn't about immigrants coming in here legally its about the ones coming in this country and breaking our immigration laws. People are using the race card as a smoke screen to cover the fact that laws are being broken. What makes illegals think they have rights in a country they don't belong in? Also, this is a slap in the face to the ones that have waited years to become citizens legally. Hospitals have shut down due to illegals running them dry. They are thinning out a dry welfare system. No one wants to discuss this. They are sending children to schools and not paying income taxes for it. This isn't a racist subject but a economic and safety issue.

Thank you Rus! Some common sense brought into the whole subject. The post was so great, I can't even add to it! :thumbsup:

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No one wants to discuss this.

Well, let's discuss it, Rus.

I think its so funny how fast the race card got thrown in this...People are using the race card as a smoke screen to cover the fact that laws are being broken.

I can't prove it to you Rus, but from first hand experience I can tell you that race IS unfortunately intertwined into the immigration debate. It is not done by all, but by many (and perhaps even unconsciously so). The arguments of immigrant "isolation", that they are stubborn and refuse to learn a new language or culture, are absolutely baseless and typically directed only against people who who originate from developing countries.

What makes illegals think they have rights in a country they don't belong in?

We consider those to be human rights, which are undeniable, regardless of origen, nationality, or jurisdiction. To name only few, the right of life and liberty, the right to fair living wages, the right to the right to appropriate education and healthcare, the right to preserve a cultural identity, language, or practice, the right to freedom of religion...

Also, this is a slap in the face to the ones that have waited years to become citizens legally.

Several people here have mentioned this. I certainly can't speak for all, but I've have the pleasure of working quite a few naturalized citizens. NONE of them adheres to the attitude of, "well, I had to go through to hell to get here, so everyone else should too." Quite the contrary, they believe that current immigration policies are inadaquet and that there must be a better way.

Hospitals have shut down due to illegals running them dry. They are thinning out a dry welfare system.

The argument that immigrants are here to "get a free ride" or exploit our resources is again, absolutely baseless and directed only at specific demographics. Rather than suck out resources, most undocumented workers want work as much possible. Furthermore, it cannot be said that immigrants do economic harm by "stealing jobs" from the domestic unemployed. This idea is a 'lump of labur fallacy' -- the belief that the number of jobs in any particular country is fixed, so that the more people immigrate, the fewer jobs are available to go around. This, of course, is false. Rates of immigration have not been seen to increase rates of domestic unemployment. Rather, immigration may very well increase the number of jobs.

They are sending children to schools and not paying income taxes for it.

This is also a scapegoat argument often that seeks to blame one group for the floundering of school districts or the struggling welfare system. Furthermore, it is very strange to argue that too much is being spent on the education of immigrant children. Schooling is not a welfare benefit to an individual child but an essential investment in the future of a society.

Rus, I do agree with you, though, that due taxes should be paid. Solution = legal documentation. Please read that I am not advocating blanket amnesty, but only a better system of documentation which will provide safety, fair wages, and tax collection.

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Fair living wages? Are you kidding? Why is the USA the only country that it obliged to follow this mantra? Let's see your home country provide this. Who declared healthcare a universal right? The US's hospitals accept all comers out of goodness, but come on...

Your "argument" in favor of illegals getting less than minimum wage and no benefits is bogus, too. There are lots of, say, landscapers who are f*cked by immigrants. In that case they are stealing jobs, illegally and unfairly.

You call the investement in Illegals being educated as an investment in society, I still call it a bunch people taking advantage of us.

Every illegal broke the law. Get them out if at all possible.

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This isn't a immigration issue but an illegal immigration issue. If you are in Europe illegally you are detained. People keep throwing around immigration and leaving the illegal part off. People are trying to stop the flow of illegals here, ones that are not paying into our system. I still think this is not a racial issue and think that its being used for a smoke screen to cover up the fact of being illegal. This issue has nothing to do with Human rights but they are screaming they want American rights when they broke the law and showed disrespect to our laws. So why should we let them stay here if they can't respect our laws?????

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I'm sure at least somebody has said parts or all of this before, but here I go:

It's not about immigrants, it's about "illegal aliens". The words "undocumented worker" are lame. Let's knock off the BS and get real.

These people have NO RIGHT to be here ILLEGALLY. And on top of that they demand change and protest in the streets of the very country that they are exploiting? I think not. What's the point of flying a Mexican flag on top of an upside-down American flag? What's the point of flying the former flag of the USSR? (yes, I saw this!) What's the point of making comments about taking back the Southwest and California? All this does is serve to increase the anger and hatred against Hispanics by other groups, white, black, asian, you name it. This certainly can't be fair to thos Hispanics who are here legally, or who always were citizens.

Let's face it, this is mostly a Mexican issue, 99.9%. Why is there no outcry and protest in the streets of Mexico City demanding that corrupt government better itself for its people? What would happen if I went down there waving an American flag in the streets demanding better treatment for Americans and a job, free healthcare, etc., on top of it?

Illegal aliens are driving hospitals (especially in So.Cal.) out of business. Illegal aliens are filling jails and prisons, or in many cases commiting crimes and fleeing back to Mexico and disappearing. The fact of the matter is that there is a FINITE number of jobs availabe. There are only so many jobs available, you can't simply just open the border and let them all in that want to be in. Numbers MUST be controlled, records MUST be maintained or people will simply slip through the cracks and end up going down the wrong path.

1) Build A Wall, a BIG wall.

2) No amnesty

3) Deport ALL illegals (not just Mexiicans)

4) Increase pressure on Mexico

5) Demand our politicians pull their heads out of their arses and do what is right for America, not maneuvering in hopes of gaining a future voting block.

6) Hold companies responsible for hiring illegals; mandatory documentation of legality to work in America must be on file.

7) Ammendment that disallows automatic citizenship based merely on the fact that you were born here. Citizenship IF and ONLY IF mom was in the country legally.

8) Come up with a plan that DOES allow people wanting to enter to enter rapidly, perhaps a company sponsorship program. Get them here, get them documented, get them legal.

:angry::angry::angry:

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YEAH! In fact, let's make the wall a mile high!!! And then we can send all the republican patriots down to guard the border for free! THis is no long-term solution.

Meanwhile, my family will be working hard to put food on the table and we'll be much too concerned thinking about things like our health and well-being to dwell on non-issues like immigration and gay marriage and the likes.

Or, we could just continue to vote in politicians that get elected on your high emotions about issues that don't really affect you while they ruin the middle class in the name of their real interests: Big business contributions.

Doesn't anybody else see this? We need to get rid of these "bandwagon" politicians.

But in response to D.P Baker... I agree that we need a better legal-immigration policy. More of a "come on in.. but be sure to register at the door before you make yourself comfortable" policy.

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