Triangle Towne Center

[perrykat]

Just wondering what everyone thought of Triangle Town Center. I really don't like it - It's kinda creepy at night! It seems cold and hollow to me - like it's there but there's not really a reason for it. The only "unique" thing about it is the Saks Fifth Avenue, which is probably a big draw for shoppers all around and also is a big staple to the mall. I always thought it was in a strange area, there's nothing really around there except for a KMart and a few things.

What does everyone think about this mall? How is it doing?

[avery]

Just wondering what everyone thought of this mall. I really don't like it - It's kinda creepy at night! It seems cold and hollow to me - like it's there but there's not really a reason for it. The only "unique" thing about it is the Saks Fifth Avenue, which is probably a big draw for shoppers all around and also is a big staple to the mall. I always thought it was in a strange area, there's nothing really around there except for a KMart and a few things.

What does everyone think about this mall? How is it doing?

I'm not a big fan of it. I guess it is modern and has a Saks, but I can't afford Saks

I guess it servers the Wakefield and Wake Forest crowds pretty well. Once I-540 opens to Knightdale, I'm sure it will draw even more. I too think it is very hollow feeling. My wife and I went in there one night and it seemed rather quiet and "creepy" feeling too. After that whole stabbing incident there, I just assume staying clear of it. I've got Crabtree 2 miles down the road and it is still my favorite mall. I only wish we had a Nordstrom so I don't have to drive to Durham.

[dmccall]

Orvis is AWESOME and Z Gallerie is great. There are a few other uniques, but none are that impressive.

[urbanesq]

I dislike it. It's completely dead and in my opinion is a total throw-back to the late 70's, early 80's. Completely uninspired despite (as I've stated in previous posts) the last minute attempt to become Streetes of Southpointe-like with the lame-o outdoor area.

I think it's an environmental nightmare, a sprawl-generator, and a totally wasted opportunity to create better land use patterns in Raleigh.

[JDC]

I don't really care for it either, but the fact that it's not really near anything doesn't surprise me. In the sprawburbs, the common philosophy is B.A.N.A.N.A.: Build Absolutely Nothing Anywhere Near Anything

[DigitalSky]

Yeah the mall overall when I visited had a "cold" feeling to it... it's an ok mall, definately nothing special or hyped up.... all it really has as a destination is Saks

[ncwebguy]

I think the "coldness" of Triangle Town Center might have been a concession made to land Saks, to give the appearance of being upscale, and to keep the teenage slack jawed suburban youths out. To add insult to injury, they use the silly "nature" theme, with the "creek" running through the outside area, down a waterfall in center court, through the water spitters near the food court to the creek outside there. The food court "rock" plays on this, but it's hard to take seriously knowing the forest that used to be in the area. They have a kids play area, but it is by the sears/eb games ghetto, a world away from the Saks wing.

Going upscale landed them tenants like the afore mentioned Z Gallerie, Magnolia Marketplace (which is now gone), Orivs, Benetton, Holister (ambercrombie goes surfing), Pottery Barn Kids (but no PB), Mitchells Spa and the other specialty retailers on the "Commons" and near Saks. With its North Raleigh/Wakefield/Wake Forest proximity, it could be a Southpark-like high end magnet, but that hasn't happened yet. A lot of mall standards like the Gap family of stores didn't even show up at the grand opening, but this is now being "fixed".

Also, the traditional mall food court was shrunk -- McDonalds, Chick Fil A, Subway, Starbucks, etc. and their communal seating doesn't seem like enough for some reason. The upscale food court composed of California Pizza Kitchen, Bamboo, Twisted Fork, Champps, Ted's, and Moe's feels like an accountant's idea of a "good time". There is some porch seating for more temperate months, but it is forced segregation.

There are a lot of residents nearby to the south and east, but they can't afford most of what TTC sells.

Busing is almost an afterthought, with limited covered seating and a unfriendly walk to the nearest entrance, but that seems to be the norm for malls in the triangle, if not the state and southeast. When the east leg of 540 opens, it will be somewhat more convienent for east wake shoppers to go there vs. crabtree fueling sprall for years to come that direction. I could only imagine how bad the christmas season would be at crabtree if this mall wasn't built, although that is not justification in itself for its existance.

[StevenRocks]

I don't like that mall, and except for Saks and Z Gallerie, I don't shop there much.

[Tayfromcarolina]

Let me just refute you all. I on the other hand love Triangle Towne Center. And here is why. Southpointe and TTC opened within months of each other and both utilized the trendy outdoor themed village embraced by the newer malls countrywide. Really there is not much difference between the two. Except that the outdoor portion at southpointe is bigger which means more walking and the movie theater. TTC is currently the only mall with carpeting which I like (To me that makes it seem less hollow even enviting). And the layout isn't confusing like Southpointe's is. They have attracted several first stores for the area like ORVIS, SAKS, Z-GALLERIE, and DSW finally came to the area just south of the mall. and as time goes on the list gets better and better as GAP opens soon. Parking is much easier also than at South Pointe and Definetly moreso than Crabtree. There are just more access points, plus 540 literally runs right into the mall. And being that this area is one of three in which the city of raleigh wants to focus high density development the others being "Brier Creek" and "Crabtree" I think the mall is doing it's job well. It is a catalyst. As I type this land is clearing for the new Circuit City, BJ's Warehouse and On the Border Resturant. The hotels are then to follow followed by mixed use developments.

Basically in a year I frequent Southpointe (twice), Crabtree (4), and TTC (I have lost count)

[Damien]

I don't know that the outdoor area was a last minute idea. I recall hearing about the outdoor area on the news months and months before the mall ever opened. That being said..I think it got shot in the foot when they opened with only a little more than 65-70% of the stores occupied. They should have pushed the opening date back until they could get more stores to open. I do like TTC better than Crabtree. Probably mostly because I'm all about aesthetics, and I think the brass and green marble is gaudy and kinda Liberace-esque.

[StevenRocks]

I do like TTC better than Crabtree. Probably mostly because I'm all about aesthetics, and I think the brass and green marble is gaudy and kinda Liberace-esque.

Trust me, the "new millenium" bric-a-brac adorning TTC is already a cliche and won't age nearly as well as Crabtree.

[Damien]

^Maybe, maybe not. Either way it would seem it would be easier to update a mall that has newer features than a mall whose interior seems to be stuck in the late 80's early 90's

[perrykat]

Actually I think Crabtree has held up well, it still looks pretty nice. It could use a little work here and there, but I like the "garden" type feel more than the earthtones that are used in most new malls.

[raleightransplant]

I get that "cold" feeling too. Perhaps it's that the mall will gain stature as new tenants come in and the area matures? I do like Southpoint however. I actually love Crabtree. Never thought I'd say that 5 years ago, as we were in desperate need of more malls...but it's grown on me to where it's basically my favorite mall around here.

[orulz]

I get that "cold" feeling too. Perhaps it's that the mall will gain stature as new tenants come in and the area matures? I do like Southpoint however. I actually love Crabtree. Never thought I'd say that 5 years ago, as we were in desperate need of more malls...but it's grown on me to where it's basically my favorite mall around here.

Desperate need of more malls? Yawn. I go to malls to shop on occasion but quite frankly I'd rather not have to.

Desperate need of more retail, that I can understand. But "desperate need of more malls?" The fact that we got more malls (all of them further out in suburban areas) doesn't mean that was the only option.

[raleightransplant]

Desperate need of more malls? Yawn. I go to malls to shop on occasion but quite frankly I'd rather not have to.

Desperate need of more retail, that I can understand. But "desperate need of more malls?" The fact that we got more malls (all of them further out in suburban areas) doesn't mean that was the only option.

I don't prefer malls, but I'm also a realist. It's just that Crabtree was the only game in town at one point. Hey bring on street level retail in Raleigh...

[avery]

I don't prefer malls, but I'm also a realist. It's just that Crabtree was the only game in town at one point. Hey bring on street level retail in Raleigh...

The year Southpoint and TTC opened, I noticed that Crabtree slacked off slightly on holiday crowds. I have to say that I think they are back to where they were. The holiday crowds at Crabtree are just as busy as I've seen in the past. I think this mall will always be the big player in Raleigh.

[ncwebguy]

I have a love/hate relationship with TTC. I love that it's empty 80% of the year, but hate that they don't seem to try -- that just being at Capital and 540 and having Saks is enough. The food court is blah -- the cheesesteak, pizza, and (now closed) greek places are/were not that good, and there is no mexican option (other than Moe's in the commons). With K-B gone, there is no toy store, other than Hungates and the Discover channel store. They partially fill the "educational toy" market, but don't have many plush toys, board games action figures, etc. Maybe something like build a bear or disney? The mall toy store is a dying concept due to a larger trend of toy purchases now made at wal-mart/target. The only "guy" stores are eb games and champs, but those seem to be lesser than their crabtree equivalents for some reason.

I haven't been to any malls this holiday season (other than Crabtree at 9:35 pm on a weeknight, which to me doesn't count) so I don't know how the crowds have been at any of them.

In response to street level retail, with Fayetville Street opening up, what needs to happen to have a "streets of Downtown Raleigh" to start happening? I think site 1, RBC, and a renovated Wake County Courthouse will contribute some, but there are still a *lot* of empty store fronts along Fayetville, Wilmington, and Salisbury Streets.

Would a Neimun Marcus or Norstroms occuping two floors of one of the buildings at Site 1 work? Would somethign unique to the market like Urban Outfitters draw preteens/teens away from their normal mall haunts to the ground floor of the old First Union or Wachovia buildings in the 200 block of Fayetville St or the Fayetville side of the Hudson? What would it take to lure a locally owned store like Beanie and Cecil (sp?) to the CBD? Galatea is moving to Seaboard so maybe this is a sign Cameron Village's high rents are starting to squeeze more stores out.

[avery]

Would a Neimun Marcus or Norstroms occuping two floors of one of the buildings at Site 1 work? Would somethign unique to the market like Urban Outfitters draw preteens/teens away from their normal mall haunts to the ground floor of the old First Union or Wachovia buildings in the 200 block of Fayetville St or the Fayetville side of the Hudson? What would it take to lure a locally owned store like Beanie and Cecil (sp?) to the CBD? Galatea is moving to Seaboard so maybe this is a sign Cameron Village's high rents are starting to squeeze more stores out.

I absolutely think that Raleigh ought to try to attract a big name retailer downtown. I know many people do not like chains, but it does have an appeal to the general public. I think a Nordstrom downtown or a big name draw would be a catalyst for tremendous growth. I still look to Chicago's Miracle Mile and think Fayetteville Street would be awesome if it had this appeal. It would be THE place to spend the day shopping. This also gets people into the city for extended periods of time.

My wife still recalls the days of going to Belk on Fayetteville Street to do all of her shopping. It would be really neat if it still had that appeal.

[orulz]

My "vision" for downtown Raleigh would put the focus on Fayetteville Street during the days and evenings (weekends too, of course) and on Glenwood for the after-hours and into the early morning.

Fayetteville can and should have lots of retail - boutique and big name, and restaurants that are just as appealing for lunch as they are for dinner. But most of the restaurants, bars, and clubs that focus on the late-night crowd should be on Glenwood. Putting a bunch of night clubs on the ground floor of Fayetteville Street would take up a lot of space for an activity that only goes on after 10:00 at night.

I think Greensboro will run into this problem on Elm Street. There's quite a few clubs and bars there that really won't attract people until after the sun sets.

[raleightransplant]

My "vision" for downtown Raleigh would put the focus on Fayetteville Street during the days and evenings (weekends too, of course) and on Glenwood for the after-hours and into the early morning.

Fayetteville can and should have lots of retail - boutique and big name, and restaurants that are just as appealing for lunch as they are for dinner. But most of the restaurants, bars, and clubs that focus on the late-night crowd should be on Glenwood. Putting a bunch of night clubs on the ground floor of Fayetteville Street would take up a lot of space for an activity that only goes on after 10:00 at night.

I think Greensboro will run into this problem on Elm Street. There's quite a few clubs and bars there that really won't attract people until after the sun sets.

I totally agree with this statement. Chapel Hill does well in my eyes because you have a variety of things to do day OR night. Bookstores, shops, etc., are great...not all people want to tear it up in to the wee hours. Of course, the nightlife aspect is exciting and great for the city, but you need variety there. I would also like to see variety in the shopping scene. I'm not one of those people opposed to a couple of chains (preferably notable big names)...It does draw people in. But mix in local shops and bars, and that's the way to go I think. I really hope this does happen. It would be nice to while away a fall afternoon downtown in the near future.

[StevenRocks]

^Maybe, maybe not. Either way it would seem it would be easier to update a mall that has newer features than a mall whose interior seems to be stuck in the late 80's early 90's

Taste is subjective and remodeling is remodeling, whether it's an old mall or a newer one.

Crabtree's a good looking mall inside IMO, and even if it's a little old, it's still not that bad. TTC gives me the impression that is was trying to hard to be consicously "different" and that always screams design failure.

Desperate need of more malls? Yawn. I go to malls to shop on occasion but quite frankly I'd rather not have to.

Desperate need of more retail, that I can understand. But "desperate need of more malls?" The fact that we got more malls (all of them further out in suburban areas) doesn't mean that was the only option.

Malls have gotten a bad rap over the years, and some of it is justified, but the fact is that they're still the best way of moving goods and services from retailer to consumer. Downtowns are largely unable to handle the regional retail traffic and big-box stores are ephemeral at best.

[dmccall]

I totally agree with this statement. Chapel Hill does well in my eyes because you have a variety of things to do day OR night.

You do realize that about 90% of the Franklin St. businesses from 10 years ago are now gone. If we go back 20 years, we'd find that maybe like 6 are still there. This is an enormously high failure rate. So I don't think it "does well" at all.

As far as malls go, Crabtree is definitely my favorite. If I want Maggiano's or Nordstrom, I'll go to Southpoint. If I want Z Gallerie or Orvis, I'll go to TTC. Otherwise, I can find everything I need at Crabtree. Crate & Barrell and Harold's - need I say more.

If any of you find Crabtree parking difficult, please read my article named "Hacking Crabtree"

http://www.raleighing.com/2005/12/hacking_crabtre.html

I think that parking at TTC isn't great due to long walks. However Southpoint's is THE PITS. I walk much farther at Southpoint than I do in any other retail setting anywhere - including 5th Ave.! This is why I think Crabtree should tear down the plaza and construct a street scene on top of two levels of parking deck. Then people could access something like that without having a sea of cars surrounding it.

[Jones_]

My "vision" for downtown Raleigh would put the focus on Fayetteville Street during the days and evenings (weekends too, of course) and on Glenwood for the after-hours and into the early morning.

Fayetteville can and should have lots of retail - boutique and big name, and restaurants that are just as appealing for lunch as they are for dinner. But most of the restaurants, bars, and clubs that focus on the late-night crowd should be on Glenwood. Putting a bunch of night clubs on the ground floor of Fayetteville Street would take up a lot of space for an activity that only goes on after 10:00 at night.

I think Greensboro will run into this problem on Elm Street. There's quite a few clubs and bars there that really won't attract people until after the sun sets.

Pretty interesting idea Orulz. Now you have me thinking about things like how many retail options does an area need to end up on peoples radar as a destination. And of course does Fayetteville St have enough existing and future groundfloor space suitable for this type of activity? I think it does but just barely. Also it would require some ground floor office tenants to move upstairs into the new office tower space coming online. I am not big on chains but thinking ala Georgetown....Diesel Jeans being sold in the ground floor of the Briggs building...Gap in the Boylan Pearce Building etc. etc. Hmm...

[Rufus]

Great idea jones133 and orluz. Downtown raleigh needs a retail catalyst to jump start its much needed facelift. Diesel, CK Jeans, A/X, Gap, etc. all would fit in nicely downtown. Hopefully in the near future there will be big name retail and small boutiques to compliment all the work downtown.