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Triangle Towne Center


perrykat

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As you may have guessed, the Carolinas aren't Macy's priority at this juncture. Generally speaking, they inherited some stores that weren't that upmarket but were reasonably profitable. While it's shoring up operations in bigger markets like Chicago, where they're suffering some adjustment pains with Marshall Field's, they're letting the stores in the Carolinas operate a lot like they did as Hecht's until they get their corporate house in order.

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StevenRocks, I'm sure you know more about this than I do, but...

Federated really did a horrible job winning people over to the Macy's brand in Chicago. A particular travesty was the State Street flagship store. I believe that they could have pulled the name switch off and still kept the store near and dear to everyone's heart. But rather than promoting the new Macy's in the loop as still being Chicago's Store and something special, they got too involved in the process of consolodation that they overlooked what a gem that store is. They used generic ads (the same ones they use across the country) and completely failed to address the Chicago population directly. Though some people complain about the service and the merchandise, most will tell you that the quality it's essentially unchanged. Most folks in Chicago were simply hurt that Macy's didn't seem to go out of their way at all for Chicago, and that their brand, which they were so proud of, was being steamrollered by a national behemoth with little or no regard for its storied history.

Federated really botched that launch, and they're having to work extra-hard with lots of overtime to make up for it.

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In an article in the North Raleigh section today in the N&O talking about the new 540 extention. The Mall manager is listed and said that the mall traffic should increase by at least 15% more foot traffic now that access to counties to the east is open. Nice.

I wonder if that will really happen though.

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In an article in the North Raleigh section today in the N&O talking about the new 540 extention. The Mall manager is listed and said that the mall traffic should increase by at least 15% more foot traffic now that access to counties to the east is open. Nice.

It makes sense that eastern Wake was part of the long range strategy...now TTC just has to market to them...hmm, maybe the place will pull through after all.

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  • 1 month later...

Not to mention that the entire 540/Capital area is taking off. With the addition of several new retailers to the area including Circuit City and BJ's. The new Mimi's Cafe (Which is oh so good, I went friday) and the first Soccer Post Store in the state. Also Hilton Garden is to open in April of next year and the states first Tumbleweed Resturant. I believe the triangle is getting up there in terms of retail and eating options. And I think each of the big three malls serves it's purpose as does the smaller malls and of course North Hills.

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I have been going to the TTC for a couple years now and everytime I've been, it hasn't been as dead as some people have described it. If you go on a Friday or Saturday night, you can't move in the TTC hardly. Also, keep in mind that it is hard to compare foot traffic inside the mall with Crabtree just by looking around, mainly for the reason that the two malls are vastly different in size. What does size have to do with this? Simple. When you have large hallways, there is far more room to move around and high ceilings enhance that factor even more through visual perspective. These things make it feel large and empty until it reaches a really high threshold of foot traffic. In a place such as Crabtree, the hallways are alot more narrow and the ceilings not as high, which leads to a lower foot traffic threshold for the mall to look very busy. This is not to say that Crabtree isn't busier than the TTC, but to make the point that you can't always judge a book by its cover :) .

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Question for StevenRocks (or others who know) what are square footages of TTC and Crabtree? Can you divide that into anchor space and 'other' space? I have always been under the impression that Crabtree only loses the sqft battle because it has fewer anchors but actually wins in number of different retailers, but I am certainly not up to speed on this data. As a shopper I am more drawn to Crabtree for the impression that it has more stores vs TTC which feels like a collection of giant stores but not much lining the hallways in between.....I think it is a subtle place where TTC loses...

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The mall size issue caught my interest more and Jones133 asked an interesting question, so I called both malls, telling them that I was doing some research and asked them how much leasable space they have. This is what I got:

Crabtree: 1,366,000

TTC: 1,300,000

Basically, the TTC is larger in terms of sheer physical size, but has less leasable space than Crabtree. TTC also noted to me that their leasable space does not count empty land around the parking lot that has potential for development.

Store-wise, here is the breakdown:

Crabtree: approximately 200

TTC: approximately 165 (TTC told me that they have alot more stores on the way)

All in all, TTC is in theory smaller in terms of stores and leasable space, but its not far off from Crabtree, while Crabtree is physically smaller and thus, has less room to move about.

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Question for StevenRocks (or others who know) what are square footages of TTC and Crabtree? Can you divide that into anchor space and 'other' space? I have always been under the impression that Crabtree only loses the sqft battle because it has fewer anchors but actually wins in number of different retailers, but I am certainly not up to speed on this data. As a shopper I am more drawn to Crabtree for the impression that it has more stores vs TTC which feels like a collection of giant stores but not much lining the hallways in between.....I think it is a subtle place where TTC loses...
Crabtree has bigger anchors, but fewer of them. Its public areas are also a little more compact, as Gard said. The parking garages also give a more compact feel. All in all, it's a mall that's got a few years on it, and is so successful it's filled in its lot. That's not a bad thing.

Triangle Town Center is a new mall with no garages and a lot of open space. In terms of "feel" it's pretty spacious and modern, with room to grow. That's not a bad thing either.

The key reason for malls to exist is the shopping choices, of which Crabtee has more (and typically better). That said, with Saks, Coldwater Creek, and Dillard's, among other stores, TTC puts up a formidable challenge.

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  • 1 month later...

We went to TTC on Saturday and the 540 opening has helped traffic pick up there.

There are some different places -- Z Gallerie, Pottery Barn Kids (only Raleigh location), and they now have a Gap -- but there weren't any "destination" stores, at least for me. I am surprised they didn't try to get a Banna Republic since they are trying to go more upscale. But the non-Saks part really isn't -- shoe stores, athletic apparel, and "Flashback" a weird retro-t-shirt, other trinkets, and incence store. It was like a bigger, lighter Spencers gifts with more t-shirts than toys. It was weird to find it between Saks and Macy's, across from the old Magnolia Marketplace area. I guess it is better than an empty space.

I think TTC should try to follow South Park's lead and embrace the tweens/teens and high end shoper duality and have the "teen/tween area" centered around the current sears/play area. The play area could be moved to an expanded food court like SouthPoint's, or to the "Commons" area in the blank space next to Chammps. The high end wing could be around Saks/Macy's (my fiancee likes the expanded Coldwater Creek's selection, but not their non-sale prices). Everything else could fill the inbetween area. The mall could server both markets without scaring one or the other off.

Mimi's cafe is better than anything else of the chili's/panera vein, but a bit pricey.

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I think TTC should try to follow South Park's lead and embrace the tweens/teens and high end shoper duality and have the "teen/tween area" centered around the current sears/play area. The play area could be moved to an expanded food court like SouthPoint's, or to the "Commons" area in the blank space next to Chammps. The high end wing could be around Saks/Macy's (my fiancee likes the expanded Coldwater Creek's selection, but not their non-sale prices). Everything else could fill the inbetween area. The mall could server both markets without scaring one or the other off.
SouthPark is a good example of how to cluster stores and serve markets effectively, but TTC will probably have to wait for some leases to run out to do much shifting. it was hard enough getting the stores into the mall in the first place :whistling:
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  • 4 months later...

Should Do Well in the vicinity, there aren't really any Italian Resturants in that general area yet. And people do love italian cuisine around these parts. I'm partial to it myself.

Well, there is Macaroni Grill--Olive Garden and Carrabas aren't too far either.

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Well, there is Macaroni Grill--Olive Garden and Carrabas aren't too far either.

I don't know about the new place but all of these places are generic and well....kinda lets say, lack soul. That would be why chain places of all types in the "casual" dining category are hurting including places like Applebees, TGI Fridays and Chilis. Article 1 Article 2 Article 3

From Article 3

"These companies are stuck in the middle between (quick-service restaurants) and upscale casual dining and lack differentiation."

If Triangle Towne Center wants to survive it needs not get stuck with so many places that lack differentiation so I am hopeful that Gianni & Gaitano's Italian Restaurant is something unique.

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Remember this is the same restaurant as the one that's opening at 222 Glenwood. You can read more about that discussion here.

Pretty different locations, TTC and Glenwood...I have never been to any of their locations so I wonder what types of folks it tends to draw? Or do they think their product will succeed whever they put it? Something like the Rockford would never work at the mall. Chilis would flame out on Glenwood (I think anyway). Can these Italian guys dance both dances? We shall see.

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Where is C&Cs going in Triangle Town Center? The old Bamboo Club space near Californian Pizza Kitchen/Champps/B&N? Near Poynter Place? They opened an Applebees out there a few months ago.

CPK and Mimi's have a few pasta dishes. I like Miltons at Wakefield to the north and Casalinga in Mini City to the south more than the chains, but the wife likes places that offer coupons...

From what I've heard the C&C concept is different than Cinelli's (mostly pizza). It is half "fine dining" and half "casual". In the TTC area, nothing really competes in the "fine" category. Maybe Ted's Montana Grill or Twisted Fork, but even they lean toward the casual end of the spectrum. The casual half would compete directly with Macaroni Grill and indirectly with just about everything else above quick serve places like Moes.

In the Glenwood South area, the fine half would be in the same category as Sullivans (a nationwide high end cousin of Lone Star or some other steak chain) and Second Empire and maybe 42nd Street Oyster bar, while the casual would be against 518 around the corner.

I think more people would go to Glenwood South earlier than the late night drinking crowd if there was a Chilis say in West at North or somewhere off Glenwood itself. This would be similar to the Outback in Charlotte's Dillworth.

In other TTC area news, I heard a radio ad a couple of weeks ago that said HH Gregg is scheduled to open Oct 25th next to the K-Mart (and the Brier Creek location).

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