The West End

[btoy]

Wow. surprised no one beat me to this news.

This afternoon was the meeting with the DPC regarding several semi-significant project proposals. I had hoped to attend, but decided against it late in the afternoon. Wish I had been there now. The plans were presented for the West End building at South Main and River Street. This will definitely be a great addition to the West End, if the developer is successful in maneuvering through the testy waters of the DPC. As some of you hoped, it appears that at least the top floor will be recessed with balconies. I love the design and can easily envision it boosting pedestrian activity in the West End. Everything I saw was on WYFF 4 this evening.

IT has to be recessed remember anything over three floors has to be 30 feet from main st.

[vicupstate]

Driving through the West End today, I think a three story building with recessed 4th floor might look okay. There is a three story building next to the Army-Navy store. I had forgotten about that.

As for the Clemson architect's opinion, he may just be saying whatever the developer wants to hear. After all, I take it the developer is paying him.

[goodbye]

The developer has the right idea. He has owned the buildings for several decades and operates the Army Navy Store across the street. The design is a major improvement while looking very similar to the architectural design of the old buildings already there.

[Greenville]

I agree that we should preserve the good architecture, but even if that building is structurally sound and can be saved...it is still an eyesore now. Something needs to be done there, whether it is renovated or torn down so they can start over. The architecture definitely needs to fit in with the West End feel, and that can easily be done. In fact, they can probably build it so that it looks as if it has been there awhile but has been maintained well.

I don't think 3-4 stories is too tall for West End, but at this point we shouldn't go taller than that. There are too many two-story buildings there that would look dwarfed by a taller building. Besides, the CBD needs the height in a bad way!

[goodbye]

Don't forget, the CBD extends all the way to the ballpark now. I still wouldn't mind a nice mid-to-highrise hotel or condo building in the West End, personally. I wouldn't expect it any time soon though. In the near future, Rhett Street ought to be master-planned as a pedestrian-friendly shopping, dining, and gallery district. It has so much potential and runs directly into RiverPlace.

[Greenville]

Thanks for correcting me about the CBD. I should have said that we need more height in the downtown area (meaning North of Broad Street).

[btoy]

I do not think the city has a leg to stand on when they talk about scale. Why prevent one developer from building a 4 story building when they practically gave the land away for the fieldhouse. They only got like $250,000.

[wellen]

Greenville News article about the DPC's denial last night. Sometimes I am amazed at how fickle these decision makers are.

[Chickenwing]

Greenville News article about the DPC's denial last night. Sometimes I am amazed at how fickle these decision makers are.

I am ok with the DPC's decision, under one condition. They come up with the money, personally, to buy the property for the amount the developer was going to pay pending approval.

[goodbye]

This has gone beyond making me disgusted with the DPC. If they want to shoot down every plan proposed by developers, no matter how helpful and progressive it is, why are the buildings still sitting there to rot?! The City is slowly slipping into a thing of the past with regards to small-scale urban renewal. Makes my heart ache for the developers trying to help Greenville become a better place.

[RestedTraveler]

[Greenville]

This is ridiculous. I understand the need to maintain history, but there are plenty of historic buildings in Greenville, especially in the West End, that have been preserved. The owners of these two buildings need to do something with them. They have a RIGHT to do something with them. I definitely believe that they should work within some standards for preservation and architecture. That is not too much to ask. But when the city's guidelines for demolition, architecture, height, etc. become too rigid, it becomes a hindrance to progress. Even if the building is historical and important, if it is not being used it doesn't serve a purpose. That's not even taking into consideration the fact that the structure is potentially unsafe as it is.

And please don't get me started again on people's private property rights (which, as far as I am concerned, are being ignored in this scenario). These people are willing to work within the city's standards for height and architectural design to fit in with the rest of the West End, and that is all the city should require of them. So either the city should let this project proceed, or reimburse the owners for the taxes they are having to pay on two buildings (buildings that they are essentially not allowed to do anything with but leave them there to rot).

The frustrating thing is that the DPC vote was unanimous to keep the buildings there. It wasn't even close!

The burden of proof should be on the DPC/city to show not only the historical importance of these two buildings, but also the justification for leaving them as they are. How will they benefit society as a whole if left in their in their current state? What does the city envision the buildings being used for?

A quote that one of our fellow UP posters used to have as his signature applies here: "The past is a guidepost, not a hitching post." The city should heed this advice.

Edited March 3, 2006 by Greenville

[GvilleSC]

It made me sick to read that on the front page of the Greenville News this morning. The history of the buildings isn't ALL that impressive anyway. They made their plan to elect Wade Hampton as Governor in the building. WA-HOO ! People used to shop there ! Come on now, seriously! You can still claim that it happened at that site . One thing is Kimbrell's- ok, it's still occupiable and in fair condition; there i can see saving it even though I hope they dont! While this building is boarded up with paint peeling off and could possibly be unsafe...

We better hope they redo the Greenville News building or tear it down before it becomes historical and more prime real estate goes to waste! It's getting on up there in age

[goodbye]

A few excerpts from the article:

"He (Stephen T. Mack Jr.) said he'd explored renovating the existing buildings, but found it wasn't economically feasible."

Mack, along with the owner of the buildings, wanted to "redevelop the property, which includes a vacant lot beside the buildings."

Commissioners questioned "whether the scale of his proposed four-story building was appropriate for the West End."

The existing buildings "are really just too important in their state for us to approve demolition." - Aaron Arnett, DPC Chairman

Okay, if the existing buildings are too important in their current state, why in the world haven't they required something to be done to improve their appearence and structural stability? How do they say a project on this scale is inappropriate for the West End? It would bring money and pedestrian traffic, and it is a very well-designed project. This is the kind of mentality I can't stand! Makes me feel like moving somewhere else.

[Greenville]

I hear you, Skyliner. Short-sighted and anti-progressive stuff like this certainly makes me question my plan to live in Greenville after medical school and residency.

If the city has such rigid standards for buildings, they should purchase these "historical" buildings themselves so they can be properly renovated or demolished the way the paternalistic city thinks they should. Otherwise, have minimal standards for architecture and leave people alone. Last time I checked, these individuals were paying property taxes and footing the bill for improvements/changes - NOT the city!

[goodbye]

I'm all for design guidelines, but this City-appointed preservation group is stifling the enthusiasm to positively grow. Yes, that was my signature quote for over a year. I guess I'd better put it back up because this is is exactly why I like it so much. I'm for preservation when and where it is necessary, but to replace a rotting building with a new version of the same design and with more features is a nobrainer, IMO. Can't take anymore of this.

[jfl25]

ANYONE up for becoming a commisioner on the DPC.Thats the only way this closeminded commitiee will be of use to the city.

[RestedTraveler]

ANYONE up for becoming a commisioner on the DPC.Thats the only way this closeminded commitiee will be of use to the city.

I'd like to nominate Skyliner. He shares my vision (and I'm sure I'm not alone here), so he'd be a good representative as far as I'm concerned.

How does one get appointed to this commission anyway?

Edited March 5, 2006 by RestedTraveler

[RestedTraveler]

There do appear to be three (3) vacancies on the DPC at this time.

http://www.greatergreenville.com/city_gove...t/vacancies.asp

Anybody living within the City Limits of Greenville interested? I'm out since I live up here in the People's Republic of Travelers Rest.

[goodbye]

The Greenville News has a great article in today's business insert on the development reviving the West End. There is also a nice map of the locations of each new project of particular interest. Don't be too confused by the improper orientation of the ballpark, as it is turned away from downtown and Main Street on the rendering - a blatent mistake.

The best news in the article is regarding a new trendy national clothier, American Apparel looking to move into the soon-to-be renovated South Main at O'Neal building.

The Fieldhouse is talking with New York Life Insurance Co. about moving the agency's headquarters into the fourth floor from the Patewood office park along I-385. The current location employs about 70 people.

You'll enjoy the part about the future "Shoeless Joe" Jackson museum as well.

A nice quote: "Local real estate brokers say out-of-town investors and developers are eyeing - and buying - property."

[GvilleSC]

I just read that article! It was a great read. All of these businesses possibly moving to the West End, in addition to the ones that were talked about in past articles for Riverplace, it's a good thing that 385 is complete! Not to mention the ones that are moving into the other areas of downtown.

[NYTransplant]

Excellent read Skyliner! (Once I got past the repeated use of the word "stadium" and the reference to the "Greenville Bombers" )

That is soooo exciting!

[RestedTraveler]

That West End Coffee Company building is going to be a very nice addition, too.

I had completely forgotten that Prudential C. Dan Joyner had moved their commercial real estate offices over to that office building next to the ballpark. Talk about an office with a view...

[gs3]

The Greenville News has a great article in today's business insert on the development reviving the West End. There is also a nice map of the locations of each new project of particular interest. Don't be too confused by the improper orientation of the ballpark, as it is turned away from downtown and Main Street on the rendering - a blatent mistake.

The best news in the article is regarding a new trendy national clothier, American Apparel looking to move into the soon-to-be renovated South Main at O'Neal building.

The Fieldhouse is talking with New York Life Insurance Co. about moving the agency's headquarters into the fourth floor from the Patewood office park along I-385. The current location employs about 70 people.

You'll enjoy the part about the future "Shoeless Joe" Jackson museum as well.

A nice quote: "Local real estate brokers say out-of-town investors and developers are eyeing - and buying - property."

Excellent article!!! Thanks Skyliner! Hard to believe all thats happened in West End in such a short amount of time!

[jfl25]

Thanks Skyliner great read.