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The West End


gs3

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I agree that downtown is slanted toward restaurants, but that seems to be the first piece of the puzzle when building a truly great downtown (something I think Greenville is on the verge of, and well ahead of most cities on).

Most retail CAN afford the rents downtown (good, quality, national retail, that is). With all of the local retailers we have downtown that can obviously afford the rent, I have no doubt that national retailers like Gap, Ann Taylor, J. Crew, etc. can afford it. They pay to be on King Street in Charleston, and I doubt it is any cheaper than downtown Greenville on Main Street. The only reason they haven't come yet is because they want increased traffic. Since we don't have a college campus within walking distance of downtown, we have to increase foot traffic other ways. West End Field helps a lot, and you can always count on the Peace Center helping as well. Increased tourism in general helps, and we know how well Greenville is doing in that regard lately. Plus, the new hotels will add to the foot traffic as well.

Once the huge gaps are filled in with more quality density (most importantly, Main @ Washington and Piazza Bergamo) we will likely see more national retailers. If they aren't part of these developments, they will be locate in other areas downtown. To be honest, I think Greenville is on the verge of a retail boom. Magnolia Park, Crescent Place, and McChesney developments will add quality retail, and the population exists to support it. I am not worried that it will take development or traffic away from downtown.

I will be shocked if a nice Borders or Barnes & Noble is not included in the Main @ Washington development. Downtown is ripe for a good bookstore, and I think we'll get it within the next couple of years.

In terms of entertainment downtown, we certainly need to address this. I don't think it has to be a district that is wild and crazy where people are scared to walk down the street, but at least give us some cool, trendy, new stuff: bars, live music venue, a Dave & Buster's, a small regular movie theater, an independent movie theater, a dueling piano bar, a hookah lounge, etc. These types of things won't add the "riff raff" some people probably think it will. It will bring an infusion of youth and vibrancy into downtown (or part of downtown). Besides, the two populations are not exclusive. Sometimes I like to go to a nice dinner and see something cultural like the symphony. Other times, I like to go get a pizza, watch a cool new independent movie, then go to a bar for a nightcap. And other times, I will combine a dinner out with a drink at a bar with a trip to somewhere like Dave & Buster's.

Okay, I'm finished for now. :)

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DT retail is really in danger of becoming rather one dimensional IMO. Leaders really need to make some changes so that a business other than a restaurant can afford to grace it's streets. I am all for a variety of restaurants, but people need some entertainment venues (other than the major BIlo ctr, Peace, West End Field). Rocks and Ropes was sort of a unique attraction for DT, and interactive places like that need to be more numerous, not less. We really need to get going on the DT Cenimas, Bowling alleys, bookstores, etc of the world.

Well stated. There needs to be something to help the LOCAL, non-restaurant entertainment businesses going. Rising rents are a culprit. The foot traffic needs to increase to match the rents. Until that happens, it will be tough going.

As for Greenville's comarison to King Street. The rents there are sky high, but the traffic warrants it. Regardless, the local's that don't own their building have largely been forced to move further North to Upper King Street or leave King Street altogether.

A recent article in the Charleston Post & Courier put Lower KingStreet rents in the same category at the ritziest parts of DT Chicago.

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I agree that downtown is slanted toward restaurants, but that seems to be the first piece of the puzzle when building a truly great downtown (something I think Greenville is on the verge of, and well ahead of most cities on).

Most retail CAN afford the rents downtown (good, quality, national retail, that is). With all of the local retailers we have downtown that can obviously afford the rent, I have no doubt that national retailers like Gap, Ann Taylor, J. Crew, etc. can afford it. They pay to be on King Street in Charleston, and I doubt it is any cheaper than downtown Greenville on Main Street. The only reason they haven't come yet is because they want increased traffic. Since we don't have a college campus within walking distance of downtown, we have to increase foot traffic other ways. West End Field helps a lot, and you can always count on the Peace Center helping as well. Increased tourism in general helps, and we know how well Greenville is doing in that regard lately. Plus, the new hotels will add to the foot traffic as well.

Once the huge gaps are filled in with more quality density (most importantly, Main @ Washington and Piazza Bergamo) we will likely see more national retailers. If they aren't part of these developments, they will be locate in other areas downtown. To be honest, I think Greenville is on the verge of a retail boom. Magnolia Park, Crescent Place, and McChesney developments will add quality retail, and the population exists to support it. I am not worried that it will take development or traffic away from downtown.

I will be shocked if a nice Borders or Barnes & Noble is not included in the Main @ Washington development. Downtown is ripe for a good bookstore, and I think we'll get it within the next couple of years.

In terms of entertainment downtown, we certainly need to address this. I don't think it has to be a district that is wild and crazy where people are scared to walk down the street, but at least give us some cool, trendy, new stuff: bars, live music venue, a Dave & Buster's, a small regular movie theater, an independent movie theater, a dueling piano bar, a hookah lounge, etc. These types of things won't add the "riff raff" some people probably think it will. It will bring an infusion of youth and vibrancy into downtown (or part of downtown). Besides, the two populations are not exclusive. Sometimes I like to go to a nice dinner and see something cultural like the symphony. Other times, I like to go get a pizza, watch a cool new independent movie, then go to a bar for a nightcap. And other times, I will combine a dinner out with a drink at a bar with a trip to somewhere like Dave & Buster's.

Okay, I'm finished for now. :)

Greenville 4 mayor!

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Well stated. There needs to be something to help the LOCAL, non-restaurant entertainment businesses going. Rising rents are a culprit. The foot traffic needs to increase to match the rents. Until that happens, it will be tough going.

As for Greenville's comarison to King Street. The rents there are sky high, but the traffic warrants it. Regardless, the local's that don't own their building have largely been forced to move further North to Upper King Street or leave King Street altogether.

A recent article in the Charleston Post & Courier put Lower KingStreet rents in the same category at the ritziest parts of DT Chicago.

It's been several years since I have been to king st, so I can't really make a foot traffic comparison. This may be a bit of an "if you build it" situation with the retail though. I know they probably don't want to take risks, but the foot traffic in DT is already quite impressive, especially in the evening and thursday-sunday. I also think that with a couple of entertainment options (which will bring a lot more people) the ingredients might be there for some of the afore mentioned national chains.

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It's been several years since I have been to king st, so I can't really make a foot traffic comparison. This may be a bit of an "if you build it" situation with the retail though. I know they probably don't want to take risks, but the foot traffic in DT is already quite impressive, especially in the evening and thursday-sunday. I also think that with a couple of entertainment options (which will bring a lot more people) the ingredients might be there for some of the afore mentioned national chains.

I think the hard thing will be getting that first ONE to take a chance and take the plunge. National retailers are not big on 'pioneering'. I think the turnover of local merchants also discourages them. If they saw that local merchants were open long hours, getting good traffic, and staying for the long haul, it would make a huge difference in the effort to get a few nationals to break into the market.

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I think the hard thing will be getting that first ONE to take a chance and take the plunge. National retailers are not big on 'pioneering'. I think the turnover of local merchants also discourages them. If they saw that local merchants were open long hours, getting good traffic, and staying for the long haul, it would make a huge difference in the effort to get a few nationals to break into the market.

We were close with American Apparel, and the reason for their change of plans didn't seem to be that they were concerned about foot traffic or customers. It was a strange situation...

I agree that it is going to take one national retailer to take the risk, and after they are successful there would be others to jump on the bandwagon. I do not think it will be long before someone does. Downtown is too much of a destination - and becoming more of one every day - for someone not to realize the potential business there.

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ahem... Staples

Granted, it's not a typical national retailer in that it caters a tad to the office development downtown... but corporate retail mentality is corporate retail mentality.

Assuming it goes well, I would expect national retailers to be hitting downtown hard in the next five years.

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ahem... Staples

Granted, it's not a typical national retailer in that it caters a tad to the office development downtown... but corporate retail mentality is corporate retail mentality.

Assuming it goes well, I would expect national retailers to be hitting downtown hard in the next five years.

Excellent point! I was not even thinking about Staples, but they will be a great addition downtown. :)

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If they saw that local merchants were open long hours, getting good traffic, and staying for the long haul, it would make a huge difference in the effort to get a few nationals to break into the market.

What is the deal with so many stores closing so early. Even on the weekend, many of them close up at 6 or 7. That doesn't make good business sense to me, these times should be some of their most profitable. :dontknow:

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What is the deal with so many stores closing so early. Even on the weekend, many of them close up at 6 or 7. That doesn't make good business sense to me, these times should be some of their most profitable. :dontknow:

I've been wondering about this for a while myself. I get off of work at 5:30 (or even later). By the time I get downtown, everything's closed up. One would think that Mast General Store would at least be open until 9:00pm...I thought they were open until 9 last summer weren't they? At the very least, one would think all these stores would have extended hours between memorial day and labor day. :rolleyes:

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I've been wondering about this for a while myself. I get off of work at 5:30 (or even later). By the time I get downtown, everything's closed up. One would think that Mast General Store would at least be open until 9:00pm...I thought they were open until 9 last summer weren't they? At the very least, one would think all these stores would have extended hours between memorial day and labor day. :rolleyes:

As more nationals come, the pressure to expand working hours for local retailers will be great. While stores like Mast would probably benefit, some of the higher-end local retailers may not.

Are there any city laws governing operating hours downtown? If a store-owner wanted to, could they leave their store open 24-hours?

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This has long been a pet peeve of mine. The stores need to ban together, all agree to extend there hours, and then ADVERTISE that fact, so that everyone knows. Try it one summer. See what happens.

This is why a strong Merchant's Association is needed DT.

No doubt. Random open and close times don't make for a happy shopping experience. I walk the kids around most every Saturday morning and I am amazed at the stores not open at 10:00.

BTW, is Halfway to Habana closed prior to their move? Their hours of operation say they open at 10:30 on Sat, but when I walked by at 11:15, they were closed up.

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I think we need some more tourist attractions like an IMAX or something around the west end or riverplace area to draw in some more people. Maybe this would encourage store owners to stay open a little bit longer. An aquarium would do good next to the river somewhere. I went to the one in gatlinburg and thought it was great. It is right next to a similiar sized river up there. Maybe this was off topic but just an idea.

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I think we need some more tourist attractions like an IMAX or something around the west end or riverplace area to draw in some more people. Maybe this would encourage store owners to stay open a little bit longer. An aquarium would do good next to the river somewhere. I went to the one in gatlinburg and thought it was great. It is right next to a similiar sized river up there. Maybe this was off topic but just an idea.

I second that thought! I really love how alive Downtown seems Thursdays (no pun intended. Okay, maybe a little intended) and Fridays after work and also at the Peace Center for Shows and the free concerts and movies put on. It is great to see so many people driving and walking into town instead of out of it. Anything that continues this trend, I am all for!

How about a really great museum about our Mill/Textile history? I know it sounds kind of boring, but I want to always try to preserve our history. I see the IMAX more suited to one of the newer mixed use developments than downtown though (but it doesnt mean I don't want one really bad!!)

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I agree 100% that the downtown merchants should all join together and set standard business hours for summer (Memorial Day through Labor Day) and during the holiday season. This guessing game with the hours drives me nuts sometimes. I walked all the way from Court Square to Mast General Store with vwsam and his mother a couple of weeks ago only to find Mast had closed at 6:00pm ... I don't mind the walk, but it was a pain to get to the destination, thinking it was open until at least 7:00pm to find that it had already closed. During the summer weeks, these places should be open at least until 9:00pm, if not 10:00pm...at least on Thursday, Friday, and Saturday. :rolleyes:

How about a really great museum about our Mill/Textile history?

I thought this was going to be the primary focus of the History Musesum of Upcountry South Carolina on Heritage Green (sign in front says it should be open in September, btw).

I agree that there should be a cinema downtown somehwere, even if just a small (4 screens or maybe 2) one. An IMAX theatre would be a welcome addition, too. I'm not so sure that an aquarium would do well here, considering there are already aquariums in Charleston, Atlanta, and Chattanooga...and another over in the triad of NC. Maybe something along these same lines though (not sure what)? A large book seller would draw people into town in the evenings, too.

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Didn't the IMAX in Charleston close? If it did then I think it would be a bad investment to build one here.

No, it's still open. There were rumors that it would be closing, but then they came out and said that they weren't true and that it was staying open. I do not know their financial situation, but I don't think it should be a concern to Greenville.

Besides, Charleston's IMAX is off the beaten path. It does not have any foot traffic going by it, like one in Greenville hopefully would downtown or in the West End. Even if the one in Charleston were closing, it shouldn't scare anyone from putting one in Greenville.

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A new Persian restaurant called Pomegranite?? is coming to the West end. They've been working on the building for a few weeks now cutting holes in the side walls etc. Looks like they may have an outdoor seating area. It's near Spill the beans.

That is the restaurant started by Ali Saffi (owns the franchise rights to Subway in SC). Can't wait to try it.

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A new Persian restaurant called Pomegranite?? is coming to the West end. They've been working on the building for a few weeks now cutting holes in the side walls etc. Looks like they may have an outdoor seating area. It's near Spill the beans.

That's the building with the staircase leading up to the top of the hill behind the building, right?

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Having moved from LA 2 1/2 months ago one of the few things we truely miss is the accessability of every and any type of ethnic food which was so readily available in SoCal. Two days after we moved into our new home we found out that we're pregnant (should know the gender next week, future star qb, me thinks :thumbsup: )lol. Anyhoo, most women crave ice cream, pickles or some derivation thereof. Not my wife she's cravin' persian food, all the time. Two weeks ago we had persian food 3 x's in 6 days, seriously. One day for lunch in Chapel Hill when we were there for business, then 3 days later in Atlanta at an all you can eat persian buffet called Persepolis. The place was packed and had all sorts of grilled kabobs, hummus,dolmas, dipping sauces, feta, hot fresh pita oooh I'm drooling as I type this. I've probably had persian food over 2 dozen times in Los Angeles and this place was the best we've ever had. My wife was in pregnancy culinary craving heaven. Two days later we dropped her friend off at Charlotte airport afterward we stopped of at, yup, you guessed it another persian restaurant. :rolleyes: Again, very good food.

Needless to say when we found out a couple of months ago about this new persian restaurant coming to downtown we were/are elated. If it's anywhere comparable to the places we ate at in Atl. or Clt. we will be frequent guests. Persian food rocks!

I've been to the pita hut, (I think that's what it's called) and they don't even heat up the pita, cold pita, yech and the owner was not friendly at all. Please dear Lord, let Pomegranate be delicious and reasonably priced. Okay, borderline lunatic digression over.

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