Would you buy a condominium in the Heartside District

[GRDadof3]

With several new proposals for condominiums in Heartside, here's a poll for everyone. Let's assume that the missions will be STAYING in the area and that you'll have to assimilate. If it depends on location, where particulary.

[snoogit]

Heartsid is getting better and better all the time, Its really a lot different then it was even 3 years ago.

[MAU]

I think the answers for the poll are a little limiting because i voted no - not because of the homeless but because i've worked right in the heartside for 7 years and there's a few reasons why i wouldn't live here. Mainly because i like my house and my yard.

[snoogit]

I think the answers for the poll are a little limiting because i voted no - not because of the homeless but because i've worked right in the heartside for 7 years and there's a few reasons why i wouldn't live here. Mainly because i like my house and my yard.

That would be the reason I;d move into the city, to get away from lawnwork

[Rizzo]

I wouldn't because its starting to feel a little pompous. I guess thats a downfall of an up and comming district.

[GRDadof3]

Sorry MAU. I guess I assumed that anyone answering the poll would want a condo downtown in the first place

[Greedo]

If I could get a loft condo along that part of the river (south of the S-curve), and could convince my wife to live downtown, it would be a no-brainer for me.

[MAU]

Sorry MAU. I guess I assumed that anyone answering the poll would want a condo downtown in the first place

OK, well, if i were to want a condo downtown i most likely wouldn't want it in the Heartside because i work here and i would like a change of scenery for at least 16 hours out of the day.

[GR_Urbanist]

I wouldnt see why people wouldnt want to live in Heartside because of the homeless.

There is more to living in the city than art galleries, coffee shops, hip pads, and bars. You also have homeless and people who are rough around the edges. The people down there are not murders and rapist any more than you would find in the suburbs. If you move to Heartside, remember you share a place with these people. They are not trash or subhuman. They are human beings. Treat them with respect and they will do the same to you. You never know if it could have been you in their position. Besides, the place is big enough for everyone.

[twoshort]

I wouldnt see why people wouldnt want to live in Heartside because of the homeless.

There is more to living in the city than art galleries, coffee shops, hip pads, and bars. You also have homeless and people who are rough around the edges. The people down there are not murders and rapist any more than you would find in the suburbs. If you move to Heartside, remember you share a place with these people. They are not trash or subhuman. They are human beings. Treat them with respect and they will do the same to you. You never know if it could have been you in their position. Besides, the place is big enough for everyone.

While I'd love to agree with this.. when I walk through Crystal Springs.. or the historic ottawa hills area after dark I'm not hounded by people for money. I'm not followed to my car by people i don't know looking for and talking about who knows what.

Don't get me wrong, I'm moving there anyways, but it's not the same as I find in the suburbs." Respect those you want to be respected by doesn't always work i this case (at least in my own personal experience).

[sstroh]

I agree with GR Urbanist, that the homeless are not out to hurt you. They may ask you for money and pester you, but being homeless is not synonymous with being a criminal.

I hear about more crime in areas like Kentwood and Wyoming. For example, Kentwoods Rape Statistics for 2004 are higher than the national average. Area Connect

Now this site also says that GR crime is higher than national average too, but I noticed when I looked up GR and then looked at Kent County, the numbers were the same. Too bad there isn't a way to see the actual crime statistics for just the city of GR w/out suburbs. Just out of curiosity.

[Rizzo]

Some homeless are just downtown to get a brake. My only problem is the inhumility the newbies to Heartside show to the thoes in need. Have you saw some of what thoes new people have said or done to the folks in need!? Thats why I won't live there, un friggin greatful... I mean, yes, some people in the missions are actually "bad," but how would you know? By the way, I guess if that ceast, I would live in Heartside, my gradma has a role in Heartside, I bet she can hook me up.

[twoshort]

Some homeless are just downtown to get a brake. My only problem is the inhumility the newbies to Heartside show to the thoes in need. Have you saw some of what thoes new people have said or done to the folks in need!? Thats why I won't live there, un friggin greatful... I mean, yes, some people in the missions are actually "bad," but how would you know? By the way, I guess if that ceast, I would live in Heartside, my gradma has a role in Heartside, I bet she can hook me up.

I'll be honest, I'm having a hard time following what you're trying to say.

[PBJ]

I'll be honest, I'm having a hard time following what you're trying to say.

............................. ?

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[Rizzo]

Thats because I type how I really tawk... bla bla bla.. Sorry about that, my messages are rarely clear and concise, maybe I should work on that?

[Rizzo]

Let me do this over again.

Some of the homeless downtown are in Heartside because of the placement oppertunities and the charitable help from thoes at the various missions. One of the issues that would keep me from living in Heartside is some of the pompous folk who go to the new places on Division. I was a recent witness to classic, "snobbery," while walking downtown on Division Ave. The girl, who I am assuming has business at or somewhere near Heartside ran into this guy, who was a client at the Guiding Light. The comment by the girl was, "We don't want you here." I think this kind of thing is something everyone can see when you have folks from different backgrounds and ecnomic classes converging on one street or area in genereal, anyone agrre? Hope I got my point inshape... God I feel embaressed. Hows that? :-)

[Time]

If they built high enough i could live there, but i don't see any high rises in Heartside in the future. I almost bought into Riverhouse, but decided to buy a new pulte home instead. Funny, both places had the same sales person so she did not mind my backing out of the riverhouse deal.

[hood]

Let me do this over again.

Some of the homeless downtown are in Heartside because of the placement oppertunities and the charitable help from thoes at the various missions. One of the issues that would keep me from living in Heartside is some of the pompous folk who go to the new places on Division. I was a recent witness to classic, "snobbery," while walking downtown on Division Ave. The girl, who I am assuming has business at or somewhere near Heartside ran into this guy, who was a client at the Guiding Light. The comment by the girl was, "We don't want you here." I think this kind of thing is something everyone can see when you have folks from different backgrounds and ecnomic classes converging on one street or area in genereal, anyone agrre? Hope I got my point inshape... God I feel embaressed. Hows that? :-)

I hate to hear things like that, I can take a lot of crap from people but I don't put up with snobbery at all. If I was ever talked to by someone with that attitude I would have to go off on them. Most people are pretty decent though, no matter where you go.

[Prankster]

It takes all types. There are people that are well off that would give you the shirt off their back, and others that would just as soon you disapear from the earth. The same can be said for the homeless. Both examples were sited in earlier posts in this thread about experiencing agressive behavior and passive behavior from homeless people.

[Far Away]

What the boundaries of the Heartside District?

Thank you!

[Prankster]

What the boundaries of the Heartside District?

Thank you!

Roughly:

Jefferson on the East

Ionia on the West

Fulton on the North

Wealthy on the South

[GRGridGirl]

What the boundaries of the Heartside District?

Thank you!

According to the Community Research Institute: The Heartside neighborhood is bounded on the north by Lyon Street, on the east by Lafayette, on the south by Wealthy, and on the west by Market Street.

The City of Grand Rapids, Neighborhood Association Map for Heartside states the same boundaries as CRI.

The Heartside Mainstreet Program was focused on South Division from Fulton to Wealthy Streets

[newkerofmi]

Here goes my once a year post, although I read the threads around here often I rarely post. I would buy a condo in the Heartside District, oh wait I already have. The area has changed and will continue to change. Its my opinion that the problem is more then just the homeless people, but rather all the people in the area that don't care about others property. Many of the non residents that come to or hang out in the area, including some of the homeless people and even some of the clients (people in the area visiting shops etc.) and in general most of the people that spend time in this area act and do things they would not consider doing on the comer of Ionia and Fulton. This type of activity is and will continue to change as the development continues. The stigmatism of living or being on "South Division" is changing ever day. I believe much of the lack of "cleaning up" of the area is based upon peoples attitude of the area.

This is now a place that many are proud to own property and business and/or enjoy spending time. Including the homeless they all simply need to be thankful the area is transforming. Simply caring about someone's investment is all that needs to be done. For an example, I don't believe that the homeless guy would leave his container of mashed potatoes at the bottom the steps at outside the Bob or the Courtyard Marriott. I really believe that he would have the class to simply put his free potatoes in the trash can when he was finished. Not outside my building, this weekend I had to walk down my stairs and step right on the mashed potatoes. I don't think that the Byron Center kids would paint on the side of their neighbors house or car, yet they do it in the Heartside district.

The change here is simple, continue the addition of respect for the area. Sure some think that Division from Wealthy to Fulton is still the bad part of town. Well its not, nor is anyone in the area interested in going any direction but forward. A few more buildings on the block need to be renovated and few vacant ones need to be filled, but all and all if you took pictures 5 years ago and compared them to now, most unfamiliar people would not be able to tell you were showing them pictures of the same area. Rare a time I see a prostitute around yet, 10 years ago the block between Cherry and Wealthy was prostitute alley. I see less homeless sleeping in door ways then I did 2 years ago. I really think that attitude of homeless in this area is improving.

There is a one homeless gentleman that hangs out often on Ionia, south of Taps. He says nothing to most but hello. He is respectful and polite . I see that attitude of the homeless people in that neighbor hood is improving. Not that I agree with the earlier post that a business owner told a homeless person (The comment by the girl was, "We don't want you here." I think this kind of thing is something everyone can see when you have folks from different backgrounds and economic classes converging on one street or area in general, anyone agree? Hope I got my point inshape... God I feel embarrassed) Not that I would ever say that to a homeless person, but the point is if the person was be disrespectful, sleeping, or destroying property they are not welcomed in the area. That type of activity (if it was the reason for her comment) is not wanted, it would not be tolerated out front of the Amway and soon it will not be tolerated here.

Just my 2 cents. The area is coming, with or without the support of those that don't care. The difference is sooner or later they will either be escorted out by the police or feel so un welcomed they will leave on there own.

[mifunboy]

Who are we kidding, what kind of young professionals do you know that can afford 250k? Seems like they are all geered at old people.

[intovb]

Rizzo Wrote:

One of the issues that would keep me from living in Heartside is some of the pompous folk who go to the new places on Division. I was a recent witness to classic, "snobbery," while walking downtown on Division Ave. The girl, who I am assuming has business at or somewhere near Heartside ran into this guy, who was a client at the Guiding Light. The comment by the girl was, "We don't want you here."

I am good friends with the "girl" who owns the shop in Heartside and mentioned to her today that she was quoted on UP. She said "if they are going to quote me, tell them to get it right. I said get the f@&k out of here." If you do not have the luxury of being a business owner in an up and coming area like Heartside, you wouldn't understand the frustration. The real Hollywood story is that this gentleman will sneak through the front door, crawl under a clothing rack and try to sleep off his muscatel buzz. The lack of hygeine of this person is also a deterrent to business. The blowfly halo is cute on Pigpen in Charlie Brown but it's not so nice live and in person. He stands in front of the store trying to panhandle customers as they walk through the door - he also pees in the door way at times. Don't paint such a broad stroke Rizzo - we Heartsiders save the harsh tones for the special offenders.

The one thing we have to recognize in this transient/socialized melting pot called Heartside is that the unfortunate will take you for everything you've got - unless you stand up to them. Sometimes you have to be harsh because they will only respond to fear.

I own several properties in Heartside. I invested in the area about four years ago. Granted, the "Hobo Highway" formally known as Cherry has gotten a lot better since I invested in the neighborhood, there is still a lot of work to be done. The girl mentioned in the post, or even myself for that matter, do not want to be mean to people. I couldn't believe my eyes when I saw two guys ripping an electrical pipe off the side of my building one morning to sell it for scrap. Yes I used the "F" word. If I would have caught them they would have paid a heavier price. I bet it was the same guys who stole the sweet steel 1970's retro awning off the side of my building too. If you would have seen me that morning you would have been horrified at the lack of humanity.

I chase out crack addicts from between my buildings. I have called the police because I have a transient sleeping in my laundry room on occasion. I get pissed at the dude that walks into my office when I am trying to conduct business. He scares the spit out of my female employees. The drunk guy with the shopping cart full of returnables (which I think is a legitimate occupation by the way) was so drunk the other day that he passed out in my dumpster while he was ripping through the garbage bags. Luckilly for him it wasn't trash day or he would have been relocated to Howard City in no time.

Anyway, it is tough to sell condos in the Heartside neighborhood to prospective buyers especially when you have inconsiderate neighbors (opinion) like Degage that allow their clientele to loiter on the corner of Cherry and Division 24/7 without security. Not a good thing folks. It makes us all look bad in Heartside. I say provide your service and move them along. Boredom is the Devil's playground..or something like that.

Bottom line is, we that have been socialized should encourage better behavior from our transient neighbors. And if I catch the guy that keeps on taking the diahrrea dump on my building I will do my civic duty and encourage him to step in line. I guarantee I will take the tone of the "girl" shop owner and it will include the F word - or worse.

I like Heartside folks, but we have work to do.