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Would you buy a condominium in the Heartside District


GRDadof3

New Housing in Heartside  

103 members have voted

  1. 1. Would you invest in a condominium in the Heartside District

    • Yes, I love Heartside!
      29
    • No, too many homeless
      24
    • Maybe, depending on location
      36
    • No, for other reasons
      14


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Rizzo Wrote:

One of the issues that would keep me from living in Heartside is some of the pompous folk who go to the new places on Division. I was a recent witness to classic, "snobbery," while walking downtown on Division Ave. The girl, who I am assuming has business at or somewhere near Heartside ran into this guy, who was a client at the Guiding Light. The comment by the girl was, "We don't want you here."

I am good friends with the "girl" who owns the shop in Heartside and mentioned to her today that she was quoted on UP. She said "if they are going to quote me, tell them to get it right. I said get the f@&k out of here." If you do not have the luxury of being a business owner in an up and coming area like Heartside, you wouldn't understand the frustration. The real Hollywood story is that this gentleman will sneak through the front door, crawl under a clothing rack and try to sleep off his muscatel buzz. The lack of hygeine of this person is also a deterrent to business. The blowfly halo is cute on Pigpen in Charlie Brown but it's not so nice live and in person. He stands in front of the store trying to panhandle customers as they walk through the door - he also pees in the door way at times. Don't paint such a broad stroke Rizzo - we Heartsiders save the harsh tones for the special offenders.

The one thing we have to recognize in this transient/socialized melting pot called Heartside is that the unfortunate will take you for everything you've got - unless you stand up to them. Sometimes you have to be harsh because they will only respond to fear.

I own several properties in Heartside. I invested in the area about four years ago. Granted, the "Hobo Highway" formally known as Cherry has gotten a lot better since I invested in the neighborhood, there is still a lot of work to be done. The girl mentioned in the post, or even myself for that matter, do not want to be mean to people. I couldn't believe my eyes when I saw two guys ripping an electrical pipe off the side of my building one morning to sell it for scrap. Yes I used the "F" word. If I would have caught them they would have paid a heavier price. I bet it was the same guys who stole the sweet steel 1970's retro awning off the side of my building too. If you would have seen me that morning you would have been horrified at the lack of humanity.

I chase out crack addicts from between my buildings. I have called the police because I have a transient sleeping in my laundry room on occasion. I get pissed at the dude that walks into my office when I am trying to conduct business. He scares the spit out of my female employees. The drunk guy with the shopping cart full of returnables (which I think is a legitimate occupation by the way) was so drunk the other day that he passed out in my dumpster while he was ripping through the garbage bags. Luckilly for him it wasn't trash day or he would have been relocated to Howard City in no time.

Anyway, it is tough to sell condos in the Heartside neighborhood to prospective buyers especially when you have inconsiderate neighbors (opinion) like Degage that allow their clientele to loiter on the corner of Cherry and Division 24/7 without security. Not a good thing folks. It makes us all look bad in Heartside. I say provide your service and move them along. Boredom is the Devil's playground..or something like that.

Bottom line is, we that have been socialized should encourage better behavior from our transient neighbors. And if I catch the guy that keeps on taking the diahrrea dump on my building I will do my civic duty and encourage him to step in line. I guarantee I will take the tone of the "girl" shop owner and it will include the F word - or worse.

I like Heartside folks, but we have work to do.

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I could give you guys stories out the wazoo of the times Ive had to deal with some of these guys where I work. Some days It drives me nuts just from their chutzpah alone.

The dirty little secret is that a lot of them are not actually from GR. New York, Indiana, Rhode Island and Arizona are just some of the places I know of where some of these guys originate. They are trucked in from other cities, some of which pay bus fare for these guys to ship them to Grand Rapids because of the very generous, no questions asked, services that are provided, and to get them out of their hair. It really screws over the GR natives that have fallen on hard times when these services have to be split with thousands of out of towners.

And places like Degage (and Clark's) need to be held responsible for the loitering!

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Yes... but....

The actions by some of the homeless people have a serious negative impact on the perception of the community. Many of the farmers in the area are complaining because the government is cracking down on illegal immigrants, let's offer those jobs to the homeless people, many of whom could be extremely talented, and get them some income and work ethic so they can get back on their feet.

*and I completely agree about Clark’s. I have yelled at a few of them for blocking the sidewalk as my fianc

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Question: Where do the donations that fund the missions come from?

Sure, from all over. But I'm thinking that for the last 30 years or so, donations came from persons living in the suburbs.

A nice gesture that also has pragmatic value: keeping homeless persons isolated in an area far from home.

Now that suburbanites are coming back to the city to live, work, and entertain, they may be less inclined to donate to the missions. The investment value is no longer there. Okay, it's crude psychology but in the long run?

By the way, I would rather have persons donate to programs offering mental health care and job training than food and shelter for homeless. Preventative maintenance.

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Get real. What do you think that will accomplish? Do you think that if there are no missions all of the homeless and poor will go elsewhere?

How much worse could the situation get if the missons weren't there to help them? If you think the pan handling is bad now, this would make it a hundred times worse.

Those that want the urban lifestyle and to live in urban areas get the whole package. The homeless and the poor come with it.

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Which isn't any different than what Heartside had before the arena went up and all the development followed.

The homeless and the missions didn't follow the developers to Heartside. They've been been there long before any of that was even a thought in someone's head. It's great that people are investing back into Heartside, but some of it reminds me of how Americans treated the American Indians on the reservations back in the 1800's. Once something valuable was found on a reservation, off went the American Indians to another piece of (less desireable) land.

Again it's great that Heartside is getting a make over, but just be conscious of the fact that for the missions and homeless, Heartside was their "reservation", so to speak, for many years before that.

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I dont care if they "lived" here first, they're people paying to live here now who should have all the say as to what goes on in the neighborhood; not the freeloaders. If development in the heartside continues I GUARANTEE the bums will be gone.
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Where are we at with Heartwell's plan to rid GR of homelessness by 2014? Anybody know anything about this?

I agree with Sean about there being too many homeless. It really hurts peoples' perceptions of our city when they can't walk a block without being bothered for some money or being scared for their safety. Something proactive has to be done. However, we can't just close the doors on these places. Despite the thought that they could just get a job and be contributing members of society (which some can), many of the homeless have mental issues that will prevent them from obtaining employment and living a normal life. What are other options...besides shipping them elsewhere?? Is it reasonable to expect the ministries to monitor the activities of their "customers"?

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I've always wondered why there is a super concentration of homeless men. I don't think men make up 100% of the homeless of West Michigan. Where are the women and children? I've rarely seen women down at these missions. I have a feeling its that dirty little secret people keep ###### footing around.

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I've always wondered why there is a super concentration of homeless men. I don't think men make up 100% of the homeless of West Michigan. Where are the women and children? I've rarely seen women down at these missions. I have a feeling its that dirty little secret people keep ###### footing around.
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I've always wondered why there is a super concentration of homeless men. I don't think men make up 100% of the homeless of West Michigan. Where are the women and children? I've rarely seen women down at these missions. I have a feeling its that dirty little secret people keep ###### footing around.
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Living in the Heartside myself I see a the homeless every time I look out the window or step outside. Most of them are quiet and friendly, some are a bit crazy, and a few are very rude and will yell and insult you if you don't give them money when asked. That last group is the only group I feel unsafe around and cause me to walk keys in hand at a fast pace to my apartment after dark. I moved here full well knowing they were here and sympathize with those who are genuinely just down on their luck.

I support the missions who actually want to help solve the problem with rehab and job training, not the missions who feel "jesus saves". I do hope however that if donations are made to build better, larger facilities to house the homeless while they are re-building their life, that they re-build in another area. I applaud the new Verne Berry place for building 92? single units which I hope will help clean up the streets a little.

I disagree entirely with comparing the homeless to the American Indians however. I believe what we did to the Indians was horrible and beyond forgiveness but it's a completely different situation. The Indians were a different culture living here before any European civilization, and they had their own way of living which appeared monstrous to so-called civilized people but it was their way of living and it worked. The homeless on the other hand are part of our civilized culture who have been tossed out because of hardship, mental problems, or drug use. The Heartside was not their land that they settled in before we came, they came because the missions settled here. If the city decides it's in the best interest of the greater population of the city that the missions relocate further south on division the homeless won't be losing valuable hunting land, water resources or worship sites, they'll simply be moving to where the food and shelter are. And may I add, the Indians did not soil themselves in their tee-pee's, destroy their land with trash, or leave rotten food at their neighbors doorstep.

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what?? your comparing the homeless to native americans?? these people are a COMPLETE drain on society, providing NOTHING, but taking/begging for EVERYTHING... I dont care if they "lived" here first, they're people paying to live here now who should have all the say as to what goes on in the neighborhood; not the freeloaders. If development in the heartside continues I GUARANTEE the bums will be gone.
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Where will the homeless will go? Are there areas already seeing a rise in homelessness?

The "homeless" have been here over 50 years that I know of, but not in Heartside. In the late 50's early 60's they lived in the doorways of lower Monroe - Lyon to Michigan and east to Ionia. When lower Monroe was redeveloped, Police Station, City Hall, Federal Building, Union Bank etc, , they moved to Bridge Street, the river to the RR tracks and south to Fulton. As that developed, GR Ford Museum, Grand Valley, Public Museum. they moved to South Division. As Heartside redevelops, they will move but I doubt they will leave GR.
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It's the way the laws and system is set up. If your female or have a child, there are usually more permanent solutions to your troubles. The system is definitely not stacked in your favor otherwise.

Now just as an aside, pardon me while I step into the pulpit and "witness".

In 1988 thru '89 I went to GRJC and would park in the GUS lot that existed where the new GR bus terminal is now. Underneath the on ramp from Wealthy was a nice cardboard box that served as one person's house. Many more residences existed along Ionia in the alley ways and doorways of the various abandoned/rarely used buildings leading north into downtown.

I'd walk through the parking lots and vacant land where the arena is now, and where only an abandoned hot dog stand called WDOG existed back then. Up Ionia I would travel, past the Monroe pedestrian mall, before it was converted back into a street, and where a nice homeless man that every one called "Crazy Al", or "Crazy Joe" usually spent his day. (I can't remember the exact name. I just remember he was "Crazy <insert name here>" on Monroe Mall.)

I had worked a soup kitchen in NYC for three days once, so I knew when they asked for money I wasn't going to give it to them. But at times I did give them my sack lunch, or would go to deli and by a sandwich and cup of coffee for them if my limitted funds allowed it. At times I did see some people that I would consider anchors to society, but most of the ones I came acrossed where a bit touched or had other demons chasing them at the time. For the most part, however, they were docile. Yes, I saw puking in doorways. Yes, I saw deficating on the sides of buildings. And yes, I even saw the pushy drunks that demanded change (and would get none). Not at one time, however, did I become inhuman enough to say the missions should be shut down and they should cart these people off to somewhere else. Why? Because Heartside was "somewhere else".

When the plans for the arena started circulating in the early '90's, there was much discussion on what would become of the homeless in the area. The general concensus (and utopian thought at the time) was the missions would stay and the homeless would be displaced a bit father south, but places like Heartside needed to exist for them since there is statisical portion of the population that will always live in poverty due to mental illness and addictions alone. Most of them were like Crazy Al on Monroe that talked to imaginary companions all the time. Yes, he was crazy, but in America we don't commit crazy people if they aren't a danger to themselves or others. That's the unfortunate truth of the situation. They aren't "crazy" enough to be institutionalized, but they are "too crazy" to find a real job that can get them out from living in other people's alleys and doorways.

So pardon me if I see correlation with how the American Indians of old and the homeless in Heartside of today get treated by some people. I do seem to recall that in the 1800's most people thought of the American Indians as less than human, and complete drains on society as they sat on their reservations. I also know that when gold, oil, or just plain progress came within earshot of a reservation, they were herded up and moved elsewhere. After all, there were tax paying, real Americans willing to "pay" for that land, so they should go "elsewhere".

So here is challenge to the "ship 'em out crowd". Go out and actually talk to a few off these "bums". Because in my dealings with them, there are not too many of them that are sane and really want to be living in a cardboard box come January. That if they had the mental facilities to handle a job (or be able to find employers that aren't turned off by them talking to 8 foot tall imaginary bunnies that follow them everywhere they go!) they be more then willing to get an apartment far, far away from the people that have moved into the Heartside and like to lay F-bombs in their direction every day.

And just as another aside, other than the lines outside the missions, I see less homeless wandering the streets of Heartside now then I did in the 80's. They are there. They have always been there. They are human. Learn to deal with it in more constructive ways than just "ship them out". In fact, have any of the ones complaining ever worked at God's Kitchen? Degage? Mel Trotter? It's part of the communitee you decided to move into, maybe you should go be a part of it and make a positive difference in some of these peoples lives.

This is an "Urban Planet" after all.

I'm done with sermon, take it for whatever you will...

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ditto <_< The reality of the matter is this is one of the most densly populated areas in DTGR, as that density increases (looseleaf, 240, and TH, for example) those homeless WILL be pushed out and the neighborhood will be better for it. I chose to live DT and by no means would I change that but that also doesnt mean I cant be a catalyst for change. The homeless have no "right" to be anywhere, they are wherever people are generous enough to feed them. If you wanna know why I became so passionate about this issue its because a few days ago a homeless man came to MY door looking for money. He would not stop knocking and yelling for money I almost called the police, not out of fear that he meant harm but because he was annoying the hell out of me!
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