rusthebuss

Virginia Coffee House

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They're not too fond of blacks and Mexicans either.

I'm actually reasonably behind Bush's position on immigration, which is however a deviation from the typical Republican platform. god [or some equivalent] help us if Frist is elected Pres. in 08.

btw, did you guys see the size of those rallies/demonstrations in Los Angeles?

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They're not too fond of blacks and Mexicans either.

I would like to see proof. First the big deal on the illegals is that they are killing an already troubled welfare system. Another is the Social Security. They are getting Social Security checks and haven't paid taxes to this country. That is the IRS's fault but still. I dont' have a problem with people coming legally. What makes them think that they have rights in a country that they are here illegally? I don't see them disliking Blacks or Mexicans. Thats just another left wing smoke screen. All I see the left say is you shouldn't do this or that. I would do this better and when asked how they would make it better they walk around that question.

Edited by rusthebuss

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btw, did you guys see the size of those rallies/demonstrations in Los Angeles?

Don't you mean the criminals marching for criminals rally? Yeah I saw it, it was quite appalling.

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Don't you mean the criminals marching for criminals rally? Yeah I saw it, it was quite appalling.

wow. isn't xenophobia fun?! :rolleyes:

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Almost as old as the stereotype of conservatives falling back on religion.

...but let's not get bogged down in this kind of argument.

Edited by lammius

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Look there are two ways to immigrate to the United States: legally and illegally. The way that 11-12 million people have chosen to enter this country is to sneak across our border. They have chosen to break our laws and are criminals. So now they're protesting. The U.S. can't/won't do anything about the illegals that are already here so they're trying to do something about the thousands that are sneaking across the border even as we speak.

So I'm assuming you don't think that we should make illegal immigration a felony?

If not, then what should we do to stop this from happening?

Edited by willy

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Look there are two ways to immigrate to the United States: legally and illegally. The way that 11-12 million people have chosen to enter this country is to sneak across our border. They have chosen to break our laws and are criminals. So now they're protesting. The U.S. can't/won't do anything about the illegals that are already here so they're trying to do something about the thousands that are sneaking across the border even as we speak.

So I'm assuming you don't think that we should make illegal immigration a felony?

If not, then what should we do to stop this from happening?

Willy they, liberals, can't give you answer. They just tell you they would do it better and your way is wrong.

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I shouldn't say anything, but this exchange is confirming some unpleasant stereotypes that I used to hear about the the East coast. This is not a black and white issue. There are both benefits and costs to free use of immigrant labor. Historically, it's always been controversial, with farming interests in California usually being the bellwether of attitudes. Usually, when the labor is needed, immigrants are welcomed. One thing is for sure: a lot of crap is out there on this issue, and not enough useful information. It's especially discouraging when CNN is such a prime offender, and self-important redneck vigilantes are out on the loose (obviously they need real jobs). It's obvious that we need better control of immigration and better related policies, but things are getting very emotional. Soon, those large gathering will turn to large riots if we don't pull ourselves together.

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YAY! 11-12 million criminals! Looks like the conservatives are going to have to build skyscraper jails!

Are the children of illegals born here illegal? My understanding is that most of those protesting were children of illegals.

And when we solve the Mexican illegal immigrant thing, let's tackle the Canadian one! It's not as big, and they don't all speak French, but it's there. Why not admit Mexico as the 51st state. Where would they go then?

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YAY! 11-12 million criminals! Looks like the conservatives are going to have to build skyscraper jails!

Are the children of illegals born here illegal? My understanding is that most of those protesting were children of illegals.

And when we solve the Mexican illegal immigrant thing, let's tackle the Canadian one! It's not as big, and they don't all speak French, but it's there. Why not admit Mexico as the 51st state. Where would they go then?

Hey I want to rob someone. All people that want to rob someone protest that it should be legal. Its illegal but we want it to be legal. :rolleyes: Before you say that illegals don't hurt anyone ask the hospitals that went belly up . Ask the welfare system why its really in turmoil.

Edited by rusthebuss

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I don't really have an opinion on the illegal immigrant question yet because it's incredibly complex.

But.... just because something is the status quo doesn't mean it's right.

It used to be illegal for blacks and whites to go to the same schools and drink from the same water fountains. Thank God they protested that.

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I don't really have an opinion on the illegal immigrant question yet because it's incredibly complex.

But.... just because something is the status quo doesn't mean it's right.

It used to be illegal for blacks and whites to go to the same schools and drink from the same water fountains. Thank God they protested that.

That is a whole different scenerio. They were citizens. How well do you think our security will be if we let this continue? Do you think Al-Qeda doesn't look at this as a way in??? We have a infrastructure and it fails if the rules are not followed. Our Social Security, and Welfare is strained as it is. I don't think this is a racial issue like everyone is trying to make it into. I really think its dollar and cents. Also its a security issue.

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my comment was more in response to your comment about wanting to rob people and protest. I wasn't trying to make it a racial issue.

Perhaps if we weren't spending billions of dollars trying to secure Iraq's borders, we could do a better job of securing our own?

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my comment was more in response to your comment about wanting to rob people and protest. I wasn't trying to make it a racial issue.

Perhaps if we weren't spending billions of dollars trying to secure Iraq's borders, we could do a better job of securing our own?

I wasn't saying that you were making it a racial issue but the protesters were. There is alot more to Iraq than what people want to admit. Everyone wants us to be Humane. We took a ruler out that was commiting genocide. No one had problems with us going in to Yugoslavia to stop ethnic cleansing. The other countries had a problem with us going in there is because they had their hands in the cookie jar with the oil for food program. Especially France with Chirac. No one is making a big deal with that. Sadam does have a terrorist tie by paying sucide bombers families 25k.

Perhaps if we weren't spending billions of dollars trying to secure Iraq's borders, we could do a better job of securing our own?

Well perhaps if we weren't spending so much on taking care of people that come in this country that don't belong here in the first place. People don't see the big picture with our future. Illegals are depleting our welfare system and Social Security.

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If we prevented them from entering the country illegally in the first place, there wouldn't be an issue with the welfare system and social security being depleted.

And from a foreign policy perspective, we only do things for our best interests, not to be the nice guy that saves the world. We prop up dictators that support us and try to tear down the ones that don't. It has more to do with being pro USA and economic ties than human rights.... Otherwise we wouldn't have hung Rhwanda and Sudan (and others) out to dry. And if we want to become that superhero that saves the world by removing dictators and tyrannical governments through force, we'd better roll out the draft again and show a little consistency instead of hypocrisy.

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If we prevented them from entering the country illegally in the first place, there wouldn't be an issue with the welfare system and social security being depleted.

And from a foreign policy perspective, we only do things for our best interests, not to be the nice guy that saves the world. We prop up dictators that support us and try to tear down the ones that don't. It has more to do with being pro USA and economic ties than human rights.... Otherwise we wouldn't have hung Rhwanda and Sudan (and others) out to dry. And if we want to become that superhero that saves the world by removing dictators and tyrannical governments through force, we'd better roll out the draft again and show a little consistency instead of hypocrisy.

I really can't disagree with that. The problem with the not letting them come in the first place is that its political. America is trying its hardest to not sever political ties with Mexico. Mexico wants the illegals to cross because they send american dollars over to their economy. We have a foreign govt. wanting to dictate our laws for its benefit. This really is a no win situation.

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This is a simple issue with a difficult solution. If you are over here illegally you must be sent back. We also must spend more money and resources on closing the borders. You can't send them all back but starting with a few is better than non.

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This is a simple issue with a difficult solution. If you are over here illegally you must be sent back. We also must spend more money and resources on closing the borders. You can't send them all back but starting with a few is better than non.

I don't have a problem with anyone coming to our country the legal way. We have a limit for a reason and Mr. Fox doesn't respect our laws.

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What will end up happening is terrorist will attack us, we'll find out they came through the Mexican border, then the Dem's will blame Bush for the whole thing. Then the Dem's will say "we wanted to close the borders but the Bush administration stood in our way". Pres. Fox will say they actually came from Canada. Mcain will say" I tried to bring both sides together" but Guiliani stood in my way. Then finnally France will be found to have given money to the smugglers bringing in the illegals in return for good prices on tequila. BTW Ted Kennedy :wacko: will claim Bush and Fox concocted the whole thing in Texas.

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What will end up happening is terrorist will attack us, we'll find out they came through the Mexican border, then the Dem's will blame Bush for the whole thing. Then the Dem's will say "we wanted to close the borders but the Bush administration stood in our way". Pres. Fox will say they actually came from Canada. Mcain will say" I tried to bring both sides together" but Guiliani stood in my way. Then finnally France will be found to have given money to the smugglers bringing in the illegals in return for good prices on tequila. BTW Ted Kennedy :wacko: will claim Bush and Fox concocted the whole thing in Texas.

:rofl: Now that is funny but is very close to the truth to what would happen.

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This whole situation is a total gray area. It's not as easy as "ship 'em all out" because who do you think is building all the skyscrapers and projects that we so love? However, giving amnesty to all illegals yet again while bypassing those on the "right track" who have to wait 5-7 years for a green card is outrageous as well.

The biggest issue is how these illegals get work. Once they are hired, employers have no obligation/responsibility to turn people in. They don't want to do it anyway because they can have cheap help with no benefits. They are WELL AWARE of who they are hiring. If the illegal is hurt on the job, oh well, call INS, have them deported and pick up a few more at the 7-11 parking lot. The people who are coming here are desperate and desperate people get exploited. It is sickening that the price of houses is so high that peopel cannot afford to buy them and the people building them might be getting paid $50 a day.

What needs to be done is letting immigrants in more easily once they pass the checks and getting them on the payrolls so that they can pay taxes. I know three immigrants who have been waiting YEARS for green cards even though they have jobs. The INS takes a million years to do anything and as many of you may remember, even granted extension visas to some of the terrorists who blew up the WTC... 4 months after the fact! That was a sure sign that the INS is about as useful as VDOT. One of my friends said that if illegals are granted amnesty and she is not, she'll move to Canada or the UK because it's totally ridiculous that she has been here 6 years legally and still has no green card.

I am not saying that we need to open the borders totally like in the old days. But this country needs immigration and needs realistic numbers. We need to overhaul the system and let in people based on their qualifications, noy based on their countries. We need tons of nurses and the Phillipines has tons of qualified, ENGLISH SPEAKING nurses but we don't let them in because of the quota for that country. If we have any kind of quota system, it should be based on profession and not nation of origin.

That is my soapbox for the day...

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