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which Florida city will shine in 2006


cameronm

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You're right, praha...

Re Miami:

I frequent the Miami forum on the other site, so I'll get caught up on Max Tower ... but:

What are the 5 new downtown shopping malls?

Hasn't Met Miami waffled on Tower 2 for the past year (height and use)?Did they finally decide on a use?

ICE is in uptown and ICE 1 & 2 are condos only, right? Last I heard, ICE 1 was cancelled and ICE 2 got new life.

Is there any definite plans for a specific office tower in Riverfront project that went to the MPB for office space?

Also, these other projects won't even break ground in 2006. Kobi Karp's Flatiron and 600 Brickell won't for some time.

I'm a huge Miami guy, don't get me wrong. I'll be the first in line cheering new projects along, but this thread is talking about impacts to these cities in 2006. Some of these other Miami projects are only proposals.

So, regarding projects which are U/C, just finished, or will break ground, I would say:

One Miami- after years of planning, its the first thing built in the CBD since BOA- and will light up the mouth of Miami River.

Met 1, 2, and 3- Met 1 broke ground. Met 3 will soon with Whole Foods Market.

DuPont- Like the last two projects mentioned, it will mark development for the first time in 20 or so years in that part of the CBD.

PAC & Ten Museum Park, and the other "wall of towers" along Brickell, creating a new skyline north of CBD.

Watson Island Project-- new marina and 5 star hotel and condo development.

---there's too many more to list. Pretty much, all the new construction in Miami and Miami-Dade will transform the city.

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You're right, praha...

Re Miami:

I frequent the Miami forum on the other site, so I'll get caught up on Max Tower ... but:

What are the 5 new downtown shopping malls?

Hasn't Met Miami waffled on Tower 2 for the past year (height and use)?Did they finally decide on a use?

ICE is in uptown and ICE 1 & 2 are condos only, right? Last I heard, ICE 1 was cancelled and ICE 2 got new life.

Is there any definite plans for a specific office tower in Riverfront project that went to the MPB for office space?

Also, these other projects won't even break ground in 2006. Kobi Karp's Flatiron and 600 Brickell won't for some time.

I'm a huge Miami guy, don't get me wrong. I'll be the first in line cheering new projects along, but this thread is talking about impacts to these cities in 2006. Some of these other Miami projects are only proposals.

So, regarding projects which are U/C, just finished, or will break ground, I would say:

One Miami- after years of planning, its the first thing built in the CBD since BOA- and will light up the mouth of Miami River.

Met 1, 2, and 3- Met 1 broke ground. Met 3 will soon with Whole Foods Market.

DuPont- Like the last two projects mentioned, it will mark development for the first time in 20 or so years in that part of the CBD.

PAC & Ten Museum Park, and the other "wall of towers" along Brickell, creating a new skyline north of CBD.

Watson Island Project-- new marina and 5 star hotel and condo development.

---there's too many more to list. Pretty much, all the new construction in Miami and Miami-Dade will transform the city.

Ice Tower is a different project from ICE (1 &2) (ICE has been renamed Element). Different developer different project, unoriginal name. Max Tower was once known as "Verite"

The malls:

Mary Brickell Village (229,000 sqft of retail) -U/C

City Square (Miami Herald land project, 1 million sqft of retail) -wont start for a few years.

Midtown Miami (~500,000 sqft of retail) -U/C

Bayview Market (650,000 sqft of retail) -about ready to begin construction

Met Square (admitedly not much of a mall, 140,000 sqft of retail) - about ready to begin construction

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Well, I'm on a rant today, and MIA is boring me and making me impatient. It's 95% residential construction for old retired people or just rich people in general. Let's see some office, some university, some hospital, some "other use", something besides residential. Even in Jax I'm eagerly awaiting office or something cool. Why does MIA fascinate everyone. I think NYC and Chicago are still ahead of MIA, they have countless smaller buildings go up every year (buildings that would add on to other skylines but their's is sooo huge that it doesn't much matter).

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I know why people in New York and Chicago aren't facinated Simms... its because they're used to it. Its really the south that is going thru the drastic changes, the Northern Cities are being rejuvinated or revitalized... but to those people, its pretty much more of the same. Heck, when a tower is propsed in NY city, no one really cares, its not like its going to be a notciable change to the skyline like it will for many of our Southern Cities. I guess thats where the facination with Miami's growth comes from. Its a relatively new city, with "funky" (exciting, different) looking buildings.

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I know why people in New York and Chicago aren't facinated Simms... its because they're used to it. Its really the south that is going thru the drastic changes, the Northern Cities are being rejuvinated or revitalized... but to those people, its pretty much more of the same. Heck, when a tower is propsed in NY city, no one really cares, its not like its going to be a notciable change to the skyline like it will for many of our Southern Cities. I guess thats where the facination with Miami's growth comes from. Its a relatively new city, with "funky" (exciting, different) looking buildings.

I agree

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Well, I'm on a rant today, and MIA is boring me and making me impatient. It's 95% residential construction for old retired people or just rich people in general. Let's see some office, some university, some hospital, some "other use", something besides residential. Even in Jax I'm eagerly awaiting office or something cool. Why does MIA fascinate everyone. I think NYC and Chicago are still ahead of MIA, they have countless smaller buildings go up every year (buildings that would add on to other skylines but their's is sooo huge that it doesn't much matter).

Um, I don't know, but, the fact that all the new construction in Miami is more than will ever exist in Tampa, Orlando, and Jax combined is enough of a reason to keep my interest level high (well, maybe Tampa and Jax, at least). And it sure as hec isn't boring by any stretch of the imagination.

You need to go to the Miami forum and educate yourself. Didn't you read the prior posts on this thread, including my own, listing other Miami projects, and/or, did you just ignore them? The MIC; MIA expansion; Watson Island redevelopment; Jackson Memorial UM center; Overtown redevelopment near Metrorail; Midtown redevelopment; Dadeland redevelopment near Metrorail; Metrorail expansion to MIA; etc... And what about the 1-2 million square feet of office in those mixed-use towers? Its your God-given right to go on a rant, today, or any day for that matter, but be educated about it first.

NYC and Chicago are both larger than Miami. that is a fact. Miami has more buildings U/C and proposed than either Chicago or NYC. That is also a fact. Check Emporis.

This is why Miami fascinates everyone.

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Um, I don't know, but, the fact that all the new construction in Miami is more than will ever exist in Tampa, Orlando, and Jax combined is enough of a reason to keep my interest level high (well, maybe Tampa and Jax, at least). And it sure as hec isn't boring by any stretch of the imagination.

How do you know what will become of the developmen in these other cities?

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How do you know what will become of the developmen in these other cities?

I think I understand what's going on here. Florida is split up between two factions: South Floridians and everyone else. Everyone else likes to think that their representative city, be it Jax or Tampa, or, God forbid, they choose the homoculus Orlando as their shining star, is better than or has the potential to be better than Miami.

Can't happen. Miami-Dade real estate is hands over fist more desireable than Duval or Pinellas or Hillsborough combined. I'd throw in Orange and Osceola County as well, but there's too much development to downplay them-- Orlando is a unique phenomenon.

But as to Tampa and Jax, there is no comparison to Miami. Miami is on par with Manhattan and Chicago, which are the leaders in this hemisphere regarding development, plain and simple. Shoot, there's more development just in Sunny Isles and Broward beaches alone to match or best what's going on in Tampa and Jax.

Simply put, whatever is going on in Tampa and Jax, there's jit more of it going on in Miami. And Jax is too small to ever catch up- even to the rate of developments, let alone the sheer number. Not to say that jax's aren't any good-- they are. So are Tampa's. And Orlando's.

Shoot, Miami is outpacing Chicago right now, and Chicago doesn't get outpaced by anyone (except Manhattan). Miami is a Heisman finalist. Tampa and Jax are struggling to make all-conference. I don't mention Orlando here b/c I know there isn't much love-loss for Orlando from posters from Tampa and Jax.

THat being said, you need to watch out for Central Florida as well this next year or two.

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I think I understand what's going on here. Florida is split up between two factions: South Floridians and everyone else. Everyone else likes to think that their representative city, be it Jax or Tampa, or, God forbid, they choose the homoculus Orlando as their shining star, is better than or has the potential to be better than Miami.

Can't happen. Miami-Dade real estate is hands over fist more desireable than Duval or Pinellas or Hillsborough combined. I'd throw in Orange and Osceola County as well, but there's too much development to downplay them-- Orlando is a unique phenomenon.

But as to Tampa and Jax, there is no comparison to Miami. Miami is on par with Manhattan and Chicago, which are the leaders in this hemisphere regarding development, plain and simple. Shoot, there's more development just in Sunny Isles and Broward beaches alone to match or best what's going on in Tampa and Jax.

Simply put, whatever is going on in Tampa and Jax, there's jit more of it going on in Miami. And Jax is too small to ever catch up- even to the rate of developments, let alone the sheer number. Not to say that jax's aren't any good-- they are. So are Tampa's. And Orlando's.

Shoot, Miami is outpacing Chicago right now, and Chicago doesn't get outpaced by anyone (except Manhattan). Miami is a Heisman finalist. Tampa and Jax are struggling to make all-conference. I don't mention Orlando here b/c I know there isn't much love-loss for Orlando from posters from Tampa and Jax.

THat being said, you need to watch out for Central Florida as well this next year or two.

It seems the general flaw with this argument is that change doesn't exist, and that Miami can grow as it now is, forever. God forbid the tides turn and another city starts to boom for a while. I think anything is possible. The statement that "growth in Miami is more than will ever exist in Tampa, Orlando, and Jax combined" to me sounds pompus and inflated.

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It seems the general flaw with this argument is that change doesn't exist, and that Miami can grow as it now is, forever. God forbid the tides turn and another city starts to boom for a while. I think anything is possible. The statement that "growth in Miami is more than will ever exist in Tampa, Orlando, and Jax combined" to me sounds pompus and inflated.

Its pompous if I am a Miami resident. I'm not. I live in Orlando (Winter Park). My point is that I know Chicago. I know NYC. I know Orlando. I know Tampa. I know Jax. And I know Miami. And I can tell you based on my research and first hand knowledge, Miami is another Chicago- but in Florida. You see, Chicago has been the only city outside of NYC to have the type of development that it has had because of location, geography, industry, culture, transportation, etc., consistently over the years. Office and residential in and around downtown with a heavily developed shoreline. That's Miami. But Miami's advantage is that its in South Florida and has a track record since the 1920's of similar development. Miami has international style, a personality, and an image.

For God's sake, instead of wasting all our time with this, just rent a car or buy a ticket and go down there or just turn on the TV.

I don't care if Trump plans 5 towers in Tampa or a world's tallest in Jax. Those cities can't ever match or keep pace with Miami development. They can't even beat out Orlando, how do they expect to out pace Miami?

Tampa has good projects going on. So does Jax. But Miami has been at this since before the days of Miami Vice, Klute, and I love Lucy. Miami is an international city. Tampa and jax are not. Simply put, Miami is Florida's principle city and its getting bigger and better every year that passes, which means that Tampa and jax can't ever catch up. The only way Tampa will catch up is if Tampa and Orlando merge into one SMSA in 20 years- and Miami will still be more developed.

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^Good posts today JRS1. I agree w/everything you've said above except that I'd include Orlando every time you list Tampa and Jax. O-town will never be Miami either. Very well said though.

Fair enough. Except for one thing, noone I know from Orlando thinks Orlando will ever become like Miami, and whoever does is crazy. Its the Tampa and Jax people who keep making these delusions of grandeur comparisons and complaints about the hype and attention Miami keeps getting as Florida's largest metro compared to their respective cities.

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Fair enough. Except for one thing, noone I know from Orlando thinks Orlando will ever become like Miami, and whoever does is crazy. Its the Tampa and Jax people who keep making these delusions of grandeur comparisons and complaints about the hype and attention Miami keeps getting as Florida's largest metro compared to their respective cities.

Who know's you can't say Orlando will never become Miami of today that is Now population density probably never, Transportaion wise probably not. But if you mean number of highrise's in the area than it's possible that Orlando could become something like the Miami we see today.

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My only problem with this entire discussion is the use of the words "never" "forever" "always"... seeing as how the destiny of these individual cities are controlled by so many factors outside of all of our control, it is impossible for anyone to really know. What was Orlando 60 years ago? I'm sure prior to then, no one would have guessed it would be what it is today. Only an example to show how things can drastically change in a short period of time.

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I think that Orlando has international visitiors and tourist, but in the true sense of the word to me, no it's not an international city like Miami and South FL are. As said b4 in some of these threads, Miami is a "2nd tier" city. Only NY, LA and maybe Chicago in the USA are 1st tier cities. It has more than size to do w/this. It's about the cities clout and the way goods, services and trends reach these cities. I think Orlando may have just broken into the 3rd tier lately. Miami is much more connected to South and Central America and Europe, thus making it FL's only true international city.

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