which Florida city will shine in 2006

[dave8721]

Miami will get to shine at the end of 2006 and beginning of 2007 with the Super Bowl in town.

[Florida]

in my eyes... all of Florida will shine!!

[JRS1]

Miami sure is international city while Tampa and Jax are not. Is Orlando an international city?

Miami definitely is.

Regarding Orlando, lets not forget that it is the world's leading tourist destination.

Also, I know that there are over 45-50,000 Brits that have moved here. THere are also 2 airports that service international charters into Europe, and Virgin's busiest US hub is MCO. MCO also services British Airways and other intl. airlines.

Orlando is as international as Vegas and Miami with regard to tourism, and people outside the US know the "Orlando" name very well, b/c they've been to Disney or know people who have, or know of Disney. So, from a name recognition standpoint, it is an international city without a doubt. Orlando is also on the "sister city" program with a Chinese city (can't remember the name, but its bigger than Miami metro).

Everyone has heard of Orlando b/c of the tourism. So, how big a factor is tourism in with regard to this categorization?

[knas167]

Well, I'm on a rant today, and MIA is boring me and making me impatient. It's 95% residential construction for old retired people or just rich people in general. Let's see some office, some university, some hospital, some "other use", something besides residential. Even in Jax I'm eagerly awaiting office or something cool. Why does MIA fascinate everyone. I think NYC and Chicago are still ahead of MIA, they have countless smaller buildings go up every year (buildings that would add on to other skylines but their's is sooo huge that it doesn't much matter).

There has been phenomenal growth at UM/JMH Medical Center (which saw over a million patients in 2001 and has grown every year since then) to add to the contruction boom in Miami and it is in very close proximity to the downtown district with a metrorail stop. This is the largest medical center in the south behind Texas Medical Center in Houston with 1567 bed Jackson Memorial Hospital, the very large VA hospital (911 beds), Bascom Palmer Eye Institute (#1 in the country by US News and World Report) numerous doctors offices, clinics, and outpatient centers, not to mention the University of Miami Miller School of Medicine and all of its research and clinical facilities (Miami Project to Cure Paralysis, Diabetes Reasearch Institute, Sylvester Comprehensive Cancer Center, Ryder Trauma Center (only level 1 in south florida), Mailman Center for Child Development, Lois Pope LIFE Center, Batchler Children's Research Institute, etc.) and has many projects both under construction and in the pipeline for the next couple years (you can read about those here UMMSM Research ). All this spans from NW 14th St to NW 20th street (South/North) and around NW 13th Ave to NW 8th Ct. (West/East) or roughly around 6*5=30 city blocks.

Just wanted to put some figures out there to inform those of you not in Miami. I just moved down here last summer and was shocked and amazed at how large and comprehensive this city is. It is not just a residential boom town for old and rich people, but the most active and urban city I have come across in the state of Florida. I would suggest visiting before judging (as I made the mistake of doing). Times are changing down here in Miami so it gets my vote for the city to shine in 2006.

[simms3]

I have visited MIA more than once and been around the block (and my parents lived there for quite a while). They agree that MIA has definitely changed a lot...bigger, more of this and that. Aside from that, and I couldn't believe it myself, but my parents did not even notice much of a change in the skyline just a half year ago from the late 80s. Also, they stated that MIA just doesn't seem as fun. THey lived in Gables and Coconut Grove, and their favorite areas (Miracle Mile, some of those shopping areas from the 80s with restaurants such as the Taurus, etc.) it has all changed for the worse and become "seedier" to them. MIA just isn't what it was in the 80s if you no what I mean, I have to agree with them.

Don't get me wrong, the growth down there is absolutely phenomenal, but just doesn't spark my interest as much anymore.

[knas167]

February 27, 1999

February 6, 2006

Looks a lot different to me!

I don't mean any offense, I am just not a big fan of misinformation.

Miracle Mile is far from seedy. Granted I wasnt here in the 80's, but if Miracle Mile is seedy now, it must have been Florida's version of New York's Park Ave. back then. Sorry Miami no longer sparks your interest, but the great thing about Florida is there are plenty of good cities to choose from!

[sunshine]

The mojo of Miami is South Beach and for Orlando is Disney & Universal Studio. If you want Miami experience, you go to Miami beach, which is most tourists do, most of them had not even step foot on downtown Miami besides driving by there to go to airport. Same as Orlando, most tourists doesnt even know downtown Orlando exsits. Outside of those areas, Orlando, Miami are just the same as every downtown you see in Florida, not much activities going on.

[Dale]

While Orlando is certainly not an international city in the mold of a Miami, it's getting there.

Fully two-thirds my clientele is Puerto Rican/Cuban/Dominican. We have close to 40,000 Brits in permanent residence, and there is a growing Asian contingent as well.

[sunshine]

Where r all the brit hiding?

[simms3]

Nice comparison and good point about the variety of cities, but in my earlier post I was referring mainly to my parents' observations and not mine concerning the skyline. I know that it has changed quite drastically!

[up+down=midtown]

Well, I'm on a rant today, and MIA is boring me and making me impatient. It's 95% residential construction for old retired people or just rich people in general. Let's see some office, some university, some hospital, some "other use", something besides residential. Even in Jax I'm eagerly awaiting office or something cool. Why does MIA fascinate everyone. I think NYC and Chicago are still ahead of MIA, they have countless smaller buildings go up every year (buildings that would add on to other skylines but their's is sooo huge that it doesn't much matter).

Simms,you still haven't given up drinking the haterade have you.

anyways just to prove to you that miami isn't 95%residential i'll tell you whats were leading the state in

miami has the most office space p/a/u/c in florida

miami has the most biotech space p/a/u/c in florida

miami has the most amount of retail space p/a/u/c in florida

the largest performing arts center in florida is underconstruction

the largest amount of art galleries/ space in florida p/a/u/c

the largest amount of hotel rooms in florida are p/a/u/c

the largest amount of public transportation p/a/u/c

the largest amount of airport space p/a/u/c in florida.

the largest riverwalk being bult in florida

its second to tampa in museum proposals

the largest amount of government buildings p/a/u/c

funny how you think all that gets built in miami is residential but yet miami is leading florida in almost every other category when it comes to construction.......

[Go Gators]

the largest amount of hotel rooms in florida are p/a/u/c

You sure about that?

[up+down=midtown]

YEA im sure....and when i say miami i mean the entire county..

[prahaboheme]

Tampa has the approved 2.5mile riverwalk expansion on top of Bayshore Blvd (longest continual sidwalk in the USA). Cannot take that away from them. Further, I'd like to see the numbers for Miami-Dade hotels, it seems unlikely they would surpass Orange County.

[cameronm]

Tampa has the approved 2.5mile riverwalk expansion on top of Bayshore Blvd (longest continual sidwalk in the USA). Cannot take that away from them. Further, I'd like to see the numbers for Miami-Dade hotels, it seems unlikely they would surpass Orange County.

I doubt that.

[up+down=midtown]

Tampa has the approved 2.5mile riverwalk expansion on top of Bayshore Blvd (longest continual sidwalk in the USA). Cannot take that away from them. Further, I'd like to see the numbers for Miami-Dade hotels, it seems unlikely they would surpass Orange County.

i guess no one noticed how i said proposed /apporved.underconstruction

miami dade has the largest amount of proposed/approved/underconstruction hotel rooms and the same for the riverwalk,im not talking about completed.

the riverwalk i believe will be about 9miles im not sure if its continual, furthermore the city of miami will have 5200 hotel rooms built within the next 4years, the city of miami beach will have 3500rooms built within the next three years....and those are the only cities i have data for.

[prahaboheme]

I doubt that.

You doubt what?

[prahaboheme]

i guess no one noticed how i said proposed /apporved.underconstruction

miami dade has the largest amount of proposed/approved/underconstruction hotel rooms and the same for the riverwalk,im not talking about completed.

the riverwalk i believe will be about 9miles im not sure if its continual, furthermore the city of miami will have 5200 hotel rooms built within the next 4years, the city of miami beach will have 3500rooms built within the next three years....and those are the only cities i have data for.

Well, once you get all your data this can be discussed better, however those numbers are similar to the proposed/approved/u/c in just the I-Drive corridor of Orlando between multiple large projects such as Shingle Creek, Peabody expansion, Blue Rose, Aqua, etc.

[facilities man]

In just 6 projects around the I-drive / convention center area there are 6,400 rooms approved, proposed, or under construction. In the Buena Vista tourist corridor there's another 4,500 or so.

[JRS1]

Miami is awesome. We all know or should know that. Check my prior posts. Good facts. But you jumped the gun...

Facilities Man is right regarding Orlando hotel rooms. The only city beating Orlando in this category in the world is Vegas. And regarding P/A/U/C, no way Miami can beat Orlando. Add Reunion Resort, Lake Buena Vista Resort & Spa, and another 1,200 room monster near Caribe Royale on I-Drive & 536 proposed, LBV Towers, Floridays Resort, and the new 535 & Osceola Pkwy development with the 30 story hotel- the development is U/C. there's more-- I just can't remember right now.

Also, more biotech P/A/U/C than Gainesville & Shands? they're completing the single largest bldg. in school history off of Archer Road from a grant dealing with just that & cloning, etc.

Office space: Orlando has the most A/U/C, which means more space has been approved and U/C, and not just proposed- which could take years to come to fruition.

Retail: Miami metro tri-county has more retail than probably any city in the US: 17+ malls for 5.5 million people. BUT, per capita, Orlando has more retail than Miami metro with 9 traditional enclosed malls in the MSA (including Festival Bay) with the Belz #1 & 2 (also enclosed), Orlando Premium Outlets (1 million ft2) enclosed/open air, and Waterford Lakes Town Center, the largest open-air retail plaza in Florida being the next largest centers-- not including dozens of others all over CFla.

Regarding Retail P/A/U/C, check out Seminole T.C., the Winter Garden T.C., THe Loop in Osceola, Altamonte T.C., further expansion of Waterford Lakes T.C., Colonial Town Park, Blue Rose retail, Aqua retail, 55W retail, Mills/Nebraska development, SODO development off Michigan and Orange, Sand Lake Rialto, Village of Imagine retail, Reunion Resort retail, the 535/Osceola Pkwy development retail, Pointe Orlando redevelopment, etc...

Public Transportation: Are you including all the lines for Metrorail proposed that won't even get started for like another 20-40 years, other than the line from MIC to MIA and the line from downtown to Dolphin Stadium? I haven't heard the latest for light rail in Miami Beach lately, but know of Ft. L's proposal.

Orlando has commuter rail already thru the first 2 hurdles for funding-- 60-70 miles from DeBary to Poinciana thru downtown. Add to that maybe 10+ miles of busway from downtown to Baldwin and other locations- that I know of. Light Rail has been a proposal from downtown to I-Drive for a few years and a line from MCO to the OCCC as well-- another 30+ miles of proposals.

Airport Space-- what, terminal space? MCO's Airside 2 is getting another 8 gates to complete the 3rd "prong" of the bldg., and the new South Terminal Complex's First Phase calls for 16+ gates. It is designed to handle another 104 gates planned. Also, the tram to the South Terminal has just been completed. MCO also just finished construction of a 4th runway with new taxiways and the new JetBlue training facility.

And, here's a new category: new highway construction-- SR 429 Part C from 535 to I-4-- new toll Road U/C; 414 Apopka Bypass to Plymouth; Wekiva Parkway from Plymouth to Sanford/DeBary; 408 expansion to US 27; new toll road in Lake Co. from SR 50 in Clermont to 4 Corners at US 27; new 408 interchange at I-4; new interchanges at I-4 & 192, and I-4 and JYP U/C; and new interchanges planned at I-4 and 414, 436, 441, SR 44, and the reconstruction of I-4 from 192 to DeLand going on in phases; and the widening of TNPK from I-4 to 528 to 8 lanes with overpass reconstruction; 408/TNPK ramp construction; 408 widening from Hiawassee to 417; the list continues...

Miami is great, but lets keep things in perspective.

[poonther]

Great read there JRS1 and a good way to put things in perspective. However it looks like most things posted by the Miami people are just that, things happening in Dade County only while what you posted is happening over the entire MSA of O-town. I'm not sure how much it would change things, but to put things in proper perspective, you guys should list all that is going on in the entire South FL MSA (Dade, Broward Palm Beach) vs. all that is going on in the Orlando MSA (Orange, Seminole, Lake and Osceola.) I do see where you make mention of the entire Miami metro in your post, but those who compiled their Miami list did not.

Just a suggestion....

[JRS1]

Great read there JRS1 and a good way to put things in perspective. However it looks like most things posted by the Miami people are just that, things happening in Dade County only while what you posted is happening over the entire MSA of O-town. I'm not sure how much it would change things, but to put things in proper perspective, you guys should list all that is going on in the entire South FL MSA (Dade, Broward Palm Beach) vs. all that is going on in the Orlando MSA (Orange, Seminole, Lake and Osceola.) I do see where you make mention of the entire Miami metro in your post, but those who compiled their Miami list did not.

Just a suggestion....

Good point. Look, I'm not trying to get on a Orlando vs. Miami thing here. I appreciate our SoFla bretheren's zeal for Miami-- I share it. I just want to make sure when someone posts something and makes sweeping statements, that they are fact based- this goes for me as well.

Look, the only reason for this discussion in the first place is to show that there's more to Miami than condos for old people. And yes, there is more--- a lot more.

I know for a fact there are over 350 projects P/A/U/C in Miami metro. There's a list called "The List" on skyscrapercity. Its incredible. I just wanted clarification on the points made by stating what I know about those subjects.

My initial response to your is point that Miami-Dade has 2.5 million people. Metro Orlando has only 2 million, so comparing Dade to metro Orlando is not out of line. Miami-Dade still has us beat by 500,000. City of Miami also has twice Orlando's population as well. In fact, Miami-Dade is also larger in area than Orange County-- the developed portion. Also, Miami to the Broward line is at least 12+ miles. Orlando to Seminole County line is like half that, so including Altamonte construction is not out of line.

Most of what I mentioned save Reunion Resort, the 535 & Osceola development, the Loop, Alta. TC, Sem. TC, and the 192 & I-4 interchange and I-4 reconstruction (outside of Orange), and the Wekiva Parkway are in Orange County only, so it is would still be an apples to apples comparison for the most part of county vs. county, if one were interested.

[poonther]

^I'm a purist on this one JRS1. It's either city to city or county to county or metro to metro no exceptions. It's true about the mileage thing, but that's the nature of the beast. SFL is a linear metro while O-town is a circular one....well almost....so distances will be shorter in the N to S corridor but from the Orange County/Brevard line all the way to the Lake County/Sumter Line is much thicker than the SFL buildable area.

Still you serve your metro well bud.

[simms3]

It seems to me just from my experience in Orlando that the metro is also fairly linear following I-4 for the most part, and not just surrounding downtown equally on all sides.

[poonther]

^That use to be true, but w/the explosion of growth in places like Lake County and eastern Seminole and Orange, that isn't necessarily true anymore IMO. The 'burbs now stretch almost from Christmas to Mascotte along route 50 which is a distance of 50 miles while the "thickest" SFL ever gets is in the Weston/Sweetwater area and that's not quite 25 miles from the beaches. Also O-town CAN grow more in a circular fashion whereas SFL cannot due to ocean and glades.